Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[M8R]

Chill BATMAN .No Pilot is gonna get hepatitis from Air Craft Cockpit.

 

[MastanKhan]

Interesting comment, care to elaborate?

Hi,

You need to understand where Pshamim is coming from. PAF has been operating this plane since the 80's---a lot of their training has been with the americans, with some other nations but then paf has its own game plan and strategy regarding air warfare.

It has its own techniques learnt and manufactured----when you are an air force with your back against the wall since your existence----you develop and create your own game plan----when every flight out bound is a possible one way ticket against a superior enemy---you are forced to learn and evolve tactics to combat the adversary with higher numbers and better technology.

Secondly--paf has a lot more combat experience than RSAF----even the indian are lagging way behind in real time combat.

As you very well know that today's warfare and today's battlefield is totally different than my dad's and grand dads---it is not dependant on a single pilot to turn the tables per say----but it is a team effort---superior electronics---superior weaponery---superior support on the ground and more so in the air in the shape and form of awacs and last but not the least---high long range bvr's and off bore sight A to A missiles.

If it was both sides fighting with F 16 C/D's ---I would say that the paf will come out ahead---but with the BLK 52 aircraft, its radar and fire control system, its amraam's---it is not as simple---when your weapons system and equipmnent is doing most of the talking--that create uncertainity---.

I think that instead of arguing about who is right or wrong---it will truthfully come down to the first day of the actual warfare---when the leather hits the asphalt. Till then we can only train train and create scenarios and counter scenarios and then train some more.

 

[iPhone]

I'll also join the bandwagon.

where the hell is the 4th aircraft?

DAWN is reporting four aircrafts are indeed coming.

 

[dbc]

Hi,

You need to understand where Pshamim is coming from. PAF has been operating this plane since the 80's---a lot of their training has been with the americans, with some other nations but then paf has its own game plan and strategy regarding air warfare.

It has its own techniques learnt and manufactured----when you are an air force with your back against the wall since your existence----you develop and create your own game plan----when every flight out bound is a possible one way ticket against a superior enemy---you are forced to learn and evolve tactics to combat the adversary with higher numbers and better technology.

Secondly--paf has a lot more combat experience than RSAF----even the indian are lagging way behind in real time combat.

As you very well know that today's warfare and today's battlefield is totally different than my dad's and grand dads---it is not dependant on a single pilot to turn the tables per say----but it is a team effort---superior electronics---superior weaponery---superior support on the ground and more so in the air in the shape and form of awacs and last but not the least---high long range bvr's and off bore sight A to A missiles.

If it was both sides fighting with F 16 C/D's ---I would say that the paf will come out ahead---but with the BLK 52 aircraft, its radar and fire control system, its amraam's---it is not as simple---when your weapons system and equipmnent is doing most of the talking--that create uncertainity---.

I think that instead of arguing about who is right or wrong---it will truthfully come down to the first day of the actual warfare---when the leather hits the asphalt. Till then we can only train train and create scenarios and counter scenarios and then train some more.

RSAF has a reputation of being highly trained, motivated, disciplined and well equipped. I was curious to learn why Pshamim dismissed them so casually. All things considered, I beleive PAF is just entering a new era of learning with the delivery of Erieye, AMRAAM's and Block 52's. I guess the Red Flag exercise this year will allow the PAF to assess the gap it has to bridge to become a potent force once again.

 

[pshamim]

I have good reasons for that opinion. I will explain in in detail once I reach home tonight. Have been away.

 

[air marshal]

U.S. made F-16's headed to Pakistan
June 26, 2010

ISLAMABAD: Brand new, U.S. manufactured, F-16 fighter planes are set to fly in to Pakistan on Saturday for the first time since new F-16s were bought by the country in the early 1980s, in an example of a relationship that has hovered between close proximity to periods of cooling off.

On Saturday, three F-16 fighter planes will arrive in Pakistan as part of an eventual delivery of 18 new F-16 fighter planes that Pakistan ordered from the U.S. in a deal worth US$1.4 billion, according to Pakistan's air force officials and U.S. officials.

But the history of the supply of F-16s to Pakistan has been troubled. After supplying 40 new F-16 fighter planes to Pakistan in the 1980s to boost Islamabad as a frontline state against the occupation of Afghanistan by the former Soviet Union, the U.S. slapped military and economic sanctions against Pakistan in 1990 to punish Islamabad for attempting to manufacture nuclear bombs.

Those sanctions failed to stop Pakistan from continuing with its nuclear weapons development program and carrying out its first set of nuclear tests in 1998.

However, relations between Pakistan and the U.S. were revived after the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks forced the two countries to join hands against al Qaeda and the Taliban.

In the past decade, Pakistan has been supplied with used F-16 fighter planes by the U.S., to help the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) carry out its operations against Al-Qaeda and the Taliban, but Saturday's arrival of the F-16s will be the first time that new planes of this particular type will be inducted since the early 1980s.

"This is a milestone event. We are very pleased to finally see the US share some of its modern age technology with Pakistan," said a PAF official who spoke to CBS News on condition of anonymity.

But analysts warned that many Pakistanis still remain skeptical of ties with the U.S. in view of the memories of past sanctions.

"You travel around this country and you realize how emotional this issue continues to be," Anjum Rahman, a TV show host for Pakistan's Express TV channel told CBS News. "People still see the suspension of future F-16 deliveries from 1990 onwards "as an era that brings back unfortunate memories."

On the streets of Islamabad, Pakistan's capital city, there are many who remember the Pak-U.S. history of ties in relation to the F-16s.

"In the 1980s, images of the F-16 were painted on so many buses and trucks as Pakistan celebrated the arrival of the world's most modern jet fighter. Even if the Americans now give us new planes, how will anyone erase the memories of an entire nation?" asked Barkat Khan, an Islamabad school teacher.

While PAF officials are preparing to receive delivery of the new planes enthusiastically, their ability to tackle skepticism on the streets is limited. "We can only perform the best possible service but we can't tell people, how and what to think," concluded the PAF official.

U.S.-Made F-16's Headed to Pakistan - World Watch - CBS News

 

[shadow-point]

guys was anyone able to catch the paf documentry just showed on dunya tv a while ago its very cool latest by paf????members plz trying upload it thanks

 

[pshamim]

RSAF has a reputation of being highly trained, motivated, disciplined and well equipped. I was curious to learn why Pshamim dismissed them so casually. All things considered, I beleive PAF is just entering a new era of learning with the delivery of Erieye, AMRAAM's and Block 52's. I guess the Red Flag exercise this year will allow the PAF to assess the gap it has to bridge to become a potent force once again.

Yes they are highly trained and motivated but most of their training is not combat related as you may think. My opinions are based more on observations, conversations, and popular beliefs about RSAF.

I hate to divulge information that may be misconstrued. I may not be as knowledgeable as every one here is but have been able to observe and learn a little extra due my background in defense and defense industry .

Some friends are aware of my previous employment with General Dynamics Corporation. Besides working on Peace-gate project, I also worked on some other Peace- Programs in few other countries. One of them was a short stint on Peace Carvin-1 in Singapore also.

Singapore has a very small airspace to operate in. Total area of operation is not more than 300 square miles, smaller than the size of Karachi or Bombay. The four airbases occupy one half of the country. Threat perception is nil. So there has always been a fear of mid-air collisions and accidents. Most of RSAF training is safety oriented and ACMI based which helps the aircrafts to remain separated and not collide. This is all instrument based with help from ground. Pilot alone cannot be successful unless help from ground is received. The In Plane Lead, Pure and Lag Pursuit training, which is a norm for other Air Forces including Pakistan, takes place only in USA which everyone knows will be useless in Singapore.
The ACMI is priority number one which many in RSAF pilot corps call BORAX, a term used for boring and continuous. So ACMI is the most important training method for RSAF while the ACM and In Plane Lead, Pure and Lag Pursuit training is the priority number one for PAF in addition to ACMI.
RSAF cannot have more than few aircrafts in the air at the same time because of tiny air space. Only when it flies large formations, it may have 20-30 aircrafts in the air at the same time. It has never fired a live missile,LGBs or a dumb bomb in its 30 year old history even though it has large number of Aim-120 and Aim-9X along with others in the inventory. It cannot fire one in Singapore because there is a better than 80% chance that it might hit one of its own than a Bandit. I also heard the term "Fangs Sunk in Floorboard" meaning RSAF planes are more vulnerable even when they have the enemy in sight. I will say one thing. RSAF has the best ACMI trained pilots in the world . But that is it.

RSAF has been on a buying spree because it is asked to do so by influential and it has to oblige. It has reached a point that 2/3rd of its latest aircrafts are based thousand of miles away in USA, France, Malaysia, Thailand, and Brunei . Singapore has been treated as a cash cow. It has been arming itself to defend against enemies which may be non-existent but because what the Papa says, it has to oblige..

 

[air marshal]

Congrats to all.

 

[Mani2020]

F-16's have landed in PAKISTAN congrats[B][/B]

Updated at: 1521 PST, Saturday, June 26, 2010


ISLAMABAD: Pakistan Air Force has received first batch of 18 new F-16 fighting falcon jet fighters from United States on Saturday.

Three F-16s arrived at Shahbaz Airbase in Jacobabad on Saturday morning.

The sale of F-16s to Pakistan renews new aircraft sales that existed between the United States and Pakistan in the 1980s, but were halted in the 1990s. The F-16 is a multi role jet fighter sold to 24 countries around the world.

The US Air Force also is training Pakistan Air Force pilots. The first eight recently completed training with the Arizona National Guard in Tucson.

The Air Force also training Pakistanis in night-attack training and recently completed training to four instructors and five flight leads.

Source:http://www.geo.tv/6-26-2010/67390.htm

 

[air marshal]

PAF F-16 Block-52 fighter jets landed in Pakistan
June 26, 2010

ISLAMABAD: The United States delivered the first batch of Block-52 F-16 Fighting Falcon jets to Pakistan on Saturday.

The first batch of three jets customised to the needs of the Pakistan Air Force, have landed in Pakistan.

During a meeting at the Parliament House, Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman informed Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani about the aircraft delivery.

He said the current fleet of F-16 aircraft is being used in the fight against militancy in the country’s tribal areas.

Pakistan is paying $1.4 billion for the jets and an additional $1.3 billion for the up gradation of its existing fleet.

The jets are due to be delivered at the Shahbaz Air Base in Jacobabad today in presence of the United States Air Force Chief who has arrived in Islamabad.

F-16 jets land in Pakistan – The Express Tribune

 

[air marshal]

 

[air marshal]

 

[owais.usmani]

Extra High Resolution:

 

[Imran Khan]

heeeeeeeeeeey guys i see clip of landing blk52 in pakistan noe on ajj tv damn no cft was loaded.