Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Sinnerman108]

Not sure of the context......

Check this

Just wondering if someone has seen F-16s up close, could he compare ?

 

[princefaisal]

@Oscar I actually believe there is a possible gap period (in terms capability deficiency) looming in the late 2010s and early 2020s. The Block-III is not a factor yet as PAC is still in the heart of Block-II, and F-16 factor is nil at this time. Do you expect the PAF to pull the J-10 back to the table? The Chinese haven't cleared it for export, but the AESA equipped J-10C could be a viable bridge for 2019-2023 to pave for the JF-17 Block-III.

Not J-10C. Only J-10D with CFT's.

 

[ali_raza]

only eft or more f16 is realistic options here

 

[Michael Corleone]

It wont happen overnite moving plant to india and assemble a plane my take is looking 8 to 10 yrs pretty much time when PAF will looking to replace MLU F16s .

lets hope thats the case

 

[SQ8]

@Oscar I actually believe there is a possible gap period (in terms capability deficiency) looming in the late 2010s and early 2020s. The Block-III is not a factor yet as PAC is still in the heart of Block-II, and F-16 factor is nil at this time. Do you expect the PAF to pull the J-10 back to the table? The Chinese haven't cleared it for export, but the AESA equipped J-10C could be a viable bridge for 2019-2023 to pave for the JF-17 Block-III.

I dont think so. The focus is going to be on the 5th generation asset. Since regardless of timelines, the major threat too wont be able to gear up till then as well.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I dont think so. The focus is going to be on the 5th generation asset. Since regardless of timelines, the major threat too wont be able to gear up till then as well.

Well, some respite could be had if - ironically - India grounds its MKI fleet for the Super Sukhoi upgrade. It won't ground the entire fleet in one go, but unless it intends to conduct the upgrade over a very long-term cycle, we could expect at least 25% of that fleet on the ground over a 3-4 year period. The single engine requirement, if brought to fruition, may take a few years to conclude on just the evaluation and negotiation phase, induction will likely factor in after the Rafale.

But no matter which way one cuts it, the mid-to-late 2020s will get crazy in terms of massive IAF procurement. Do you expect a next-gen fighter to be available to the PAF in that time-frame? The PAF apparently wasn't thrilled about the FC-31 (not enough to sign onto yet anyways), and the TFX won't be a factor (best case) until the late 2020s. Honestly, the mid-2020s are just 9 years away, I don't think we can consider that a realistic time-frame to finalize a design, propel it into development, produce, and induct in numbers?

 

[ziaulislam]

Well, some respite could be had if - ironically - India grounds its MKI fleet for the Super Sukhoi upgrade. It won't ground the entire fleet in one go, but unless it intends to conduct the upgrade over a very long-term cycle, we could expect at least 25% of that fleet on the ground over a 3-4 year period. The single engine requirement, if brought to fruition, may take a few years to conclude on just the evaluation and negotiation phase, induction will likely factor in after the Rafale.

But no matter which way one cuts it, the mid-to-late 2020s will get crazy in terms of massive IAF procurement. Do you expect a next-gen fighter to be available to the PAF in that time-frame? The PAF apparently wasn't thrilled about the FC-31 (not enough to sign onto yet anyways), and the TFX won't be a factor (best case) until the late 2020s. Honestly, the mid-2020s are just 9 years away, I don't think we can consider that a realistic time-frame to finalize a design, propel it into development, produce, and induct in numbers?

unless paf has its sights on j-31, we have nothing new till 2030, only probably ac could be the typhoon/j-10/j-11/16/flanker variant, best thing is to get 250 thunders with aesa and build up f-16 numbers to 100+ and if possible get permission to join turkish f-16 upgrade programs/or LM saber plus getting aim120D. if we achieve this that would be mean a very capable force of 350-400 fighters

this with better SAMs should be ble to hold off IAF before a 5th gen arrival in late 2020s

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

unless paf has its sights on j-31, we have nothing new till 2030, only probably ac could be the typhoon/j-10/j-11/16/flanker variant, best thing is to get 250 thunders with aesa and build up f-16 numbers to 100+ and if possible get permission to join turkish f-16 upgrade programs/or LM saber plus getting aim120D. if we achieve this that would be mean a very capable force of 350-400 fighters

this with better SAMs should be ble to hold off IAF before a 5th gen arrival in late 2020s

The F-16V upgrade would be a major boon, but unless ordered by the DoD, LM is unlikely to court Pakistan with it while trying to rope India into the F-16. Best case scenario, the JF-17 Block-III could enter production before 2020, and at a full-rate (without any for export) could get us 100 units well before 2025.

 

[ziaulislam]

The F-16V upgrade would be a major boon, but unless ordered by the DoD, LM is unlikely to court Pakistan with it while trying to rope India into the F-16. Best case scenario, the JF-17 Block-III could enter production before 2020, and at a full-rate (without any for export) could get us 100 units well before 2025.

i doubt india will secure f-16s, its all upto politics, and govt efforts..frankly if we are unable to do so its failure of foreign policy

thunder with current rate 25 ac per year 150 additional is doable till 2025-27 period, with some improvement the rate can go up to cover exports , regardless it depends when will block 3 start production 2018, 2019, 2020?
more used f-16s with possible EDA from USA should be target with more Turkish weapons and system integration

PAF is lagging behind, it needs to catch up rather than slowing its procurement, and that has to be affordable and realistic.

 

[mingle]

The F-16V upgrade would be a major boon, but unless ordered by the DoD, LM is unlikely to court Pakistan with it while trying to rope India into the F-16. Best case scenario, the JF-17 Block-III could enter production before 2020, and at a full-rate (without any for export) could get us 100 units well before 2025.

Bilal i dont think india would go F16 as replacement of Mig 21 reason is in next 15 yrs F 16 would be obsolete jet ndia looking jet for 25 to 35 yrs life span which F16 cant compliment .

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Bilal i dont think india would go F16 as replacement of Mig 21 reason is in next 15 yrs F 16 would be obsolete jet ndia looking jet for 25 to 35 yrs life span which F16 cant compliment .

The F-16 variant India will be seeking would include an AESA radar, latest available ECM/EW, Israeli DASH HMD/S, and their choice of AAMs (incl. Python 5). It might be an old jet, but it would still be an excellent one and one that would technologically match the JF-17 Block-III and exceed it in performance. These days, the platform matters less and the subsystems more, and India has access to a lot of modern and up and coming subsystems.

 

[alikazmi007]

Check this

Just wondering if someone has seen F-16s up close, could he compare ?

These are actually IBM BladeCenter E or Chassis with IBM Blade Arrays (the vertical things!). The blades are either HS-22 or HS-23. Each blade has a throughput of 2 gbit/sec. The Chassis has built in Load Balancer called BNT module.

I work with these type of chassis on regular basis as an enterprise wide switching solution for a large enterprise.

What my question is; are you sure that this Chassis if installed in the F-16? Because this thing weights ridiculously high. This thing doesn't belong in a light weight fighter.

 

[mingle]

The F-16 variant India will be seeking would include an AESA radar, latest available ECM/EW, Israeli DASH HMD/S, and their choice of AAMs (incl. Python 5). It might be an old jet, but it would still be an excellent one and one that would technologically match the JF-17 Block-III and exceed it in performance. These days, the platform matters less and the subsystems more, and India has access to a lot of modern and up and coming subsystems.

True but still an old jet .Dont know what will come up in next 15 to 20 yrs the way tech Moving plus a lot of handicaps by US .Best bet would be local LCA if they can't then Gripen NG.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

True but still an old jet .Dont know what will come up in next 15 to 20 yrs the way tech Moving plus a lot of handicaps by US .Best bet would be local LCA if they can't then Gripen NG.

What's to stop the F-16 from having those new subsystems? It's one thing to say that the entirety of future air warfare will go towards stealth platforms, but in reality this is far from the case (with the U.S. still fielding Super Hornets and Eagles of various types into the long-term).

 

[mingle]

What's to stop the F-16 from having those new subsystems? It's one thing to say that the entirety of future air warfare will go towards stealth platforms, but in reality this is far from the case (with the U.S. still fielding Super Hornets and Eagles of various types into the long-term).

Bilal one reason US still flying these jets is delay in F35 jets .i am not saying it's bad plane but not feasible for 30 to fourty years it will be political decision nothing more .