Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Mani2020]

To give you another example the USAF was using AMRAAM C7 yet we bought C5s. So yes USAAF might have had AIM9X but it was not offered and sometimes it is appropriate to not ask for something you know will get refused.
Araz

I was expecting this example lol ...BTW sounds some what logical

 

[nomi007]

Officers of the Chilean Air Force advise Colombia Air Force not to buy second hand F-16s

but paf is getting more used f-16s
why

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Officers of the Chilean Air Force advise Colombia Air Force not to buy second hand F-16s

but paf is getting more used f-16s
why

Because they are cheaper.

 

[niaz]

Officers of the Chilean Air Force advise Colombia Air Force not to buy second hand F-16s

but paf is getting more used f-16s
why

Columbia armed forces have not being involved in a major war since the 1954 Korean War when a small contingent was part of the UN forces. There is of course a civil war going on the Columbia for more than 60 years with the left wing guerrillas mainly FARC ( Revolutionary Armed Forces of Columbia) similar to Pak Army fighting the TTP& BNLA. This is primarily a counter insurgency operation hence, except for about 20 KFir; Columbian Air Force consists of about 40 lightly armed COIN aircraft.

Chile has not fought a war with another country during the last hundred years. Even though Chile declared war on Japan during 1945, no engagements involving Chilean armed forces took place. Closest Chile came to war was on a border dispute with Argentina in 1978 but this was also resolved without any shots being fired in anger.

Additionally, Chile is very long thin country being more than 2,500mile coastline but average width of only about 110 mile. As reflected thru her armed forces; her defence would be primarily thru Navy & Army with Air force being the third in priority.

Chilean Army is about 45,000, Navy about 25,000 and Air Force only about 10,000 with less than 60 front line aircraft, mostly F-16 with a few F-5. .

Most importantly, unlike PAF; neither Columbian nor Chilean Air Force is facing the mammoth IAF and thus no need to maintain about 20 front line squadrons. PAF is therefore forced to optimise its financial resources; hence the need to acquire second had F-16 to make up the numbers.

IMHO quoting Columbian and/or Chile’s example for questioning PAF’s choice of weaponry is inappropriate. If we must; we should compare Chile’s Navy with Pak Navy which are presently of comparable size. Pak Nay has 9 frigates and 5 submarines versus Chile Navy operating 8 frigates plus 4 submarines

 

[Sulman Badshah]

Squadron no 19 Sherdils Got new marking

 

[elitepilot09]

Squadron no 19 Sherdils Got new marking

View attachment 254347

It looks like they got rid of the Jordanian camo scheme and replaced it with the standard PAF F-16 scheme.

 

[HRK]

Squadron no 19 Sherdils Got new marking

View attachment 254347

what this bump at tail root never observe it before with any other 16....

 

[Sulman Badshah]

what this bump at tail root never observe it before with any other 16....

It is normal for ADF variants .. Others members might elaborate it specifically

Italian
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/2010-08-08_F-16_Italian_Airforce_02.jpg

Thai
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Rtaf_f16adf_102_analayo.jpg

 

[khanasifm]

ATLIS II pods were made operational on these aircraft as well

 

[Quwa]

Officers of the Chilean Air Force advise Colombia Air Force not to buy second hand F-16s

but paf is getting more used f-16s
why

Indonesia was able to get surplus F-16C/Ds as well as near Block-52 upgrades for around $31.25mn a fighter. As far as modern fighters of this calibre go, the PAF isn't going to get better deals, not unless someone decides to literally dump Mirage 2000-5/-9s for around that much, which is absolutely not going to happen.

Unfortunately the only drawbacks for the PAF (preventing it from even getting new F-16s) are (1) Pakistan's financial troubles (which is going to happen when you combine COIN wars with corruption and inefficiencies) and (2) America's weird idea of a 'positive relationship.'

But despite that, the PAF is probably spending every spare moment it has trying to work on a package that involves at least 3 squadrons of additional F-16s (new and used) and associated weapons, especially AIM-9X.

 

[araz]

Indonesia was able to get surplus F-16C/Ds as well as near Block-52 upgrades for around $31.25mn a fighter. As far as modern fighters of this calibre go, the PAF isn't going to get better deals, not unless someone decides to literally dump Mirage 2000-5/-9s for around that much, which is absolutely not going to happen.

Unfortunately the only drawbacks for the PAF (preventing it from even getting new F-16s) are (1) Pakistan's financial troubles (which is going to happen when you combine COIN wars with corruption and inefficiencies) and (2) America's weird idea of a 'positive relationship.'

But despite that, the PAF is probably spending every spare moment it has trying to work on a package that involves at least 3 squadrons of additional F-16s (new and used) and associated weapons, especially AIM-9X.

Someone in 2007 told me that the package of 58M2K5s ex French that was negotiated with plenty of spares with the french were for 20 million $ per plane. Iam merely repeating what I have been told.
Your assumption of 3 squadrons is probably on the mark as it would obviate the need for anyother aircraft other than upgraded JFTs and even for that there wont be any significant hurry. However as you have mentioned US policy at the moment and our economy are hindrances to such a deal. We will need to wait till 2017 to find out what is coming our way. Beyond that if the US leaning towards our neighbours increases anymore we may have to resort to either a plan B or increasingly rely on later versions of JFT to do the job. This maynot be ideal but I think our economic condition is unlikely to improve till 2020 or later.

 

[Quwa]

Someone in 2007 told me that the package of 58M2K5s ex French that was negotiated with plenty of spares with the french were for 20 million $ per plane. Iam merely repeating what I have been told.
Your assumption of 3 squadrons is probably on the mark as it would obviate the need for anyother aircraft other than upgraded JFTs and even for that there wont be any significant hurry. However as you have mentioned US policy at the moment and our economy are hindrances to such a deal. We will need to wait till 2017 to find out what is coming our way. Beyond that if the US leaning towards our neighbours increases anymore we may have to resort to either a plan B or increasingly rely on later versions of JFT to do the job. This maynot be ideal but I think our economic condition is unlikely to improve till 2020 or later.

The Plan B, to be honest, is to take whatever money's left and save it for J-31. The PAF will not pursue any other option unless it somehow comes upon a miraculous economic surge, in which case it would gun for a 4.5 gen fighter to hold the fort down until the J-31 is ready. But unfortunately, that isn't going to happen, so it is F-16s or nothing. We have the JF-17 to basically fill in the gaps where it matters, and though the lack of a front edge fighter will be felt, it won't be anywhere near as painful as the weight Pressler left behind in the 1990s. PAF can cope.

But yes, it is insane how Pakistan plunging itself in an internal war and enabling the U.S to successfully hold Afghanistan didn't translate into it at least being able to freely buy surplus F-16s and stockpile them at will. Countries that do less get more. There are times where it might have been prudent (and still prudent) to actually point the stick at the U.S, i.e. seal the border and tell them they're on their own from this point on wards, maybe then they'll release F-16s

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Because they are cheaper.

It is bigger than that. After the MLU, PAF is unique to hold one of the biggest rotable and spare inventory of the Block 15 circa aircraft. While others will struggle with obsolescence, we have a huge stock of material which can be used to support the F16 from that time. It makes sense for PAF to get older F16s.

 

[MastanKhan]

The Plan B, to be honest, is to take whatever money's left and save it for J-31. The PAF will not pursue any other option unless it somehow comes upon a miraculous economic surge, in which case it would gun for a 4.5 gen fighter to hold the fort down until the J-31 is ready. But unfortunately, that isn't going to happen, so it is F-16s or nothing. We have the JF-17 to basically fill in the gaps where it matters, and though the lack of a front edge fighter will be felt, it won't be anywhere near as painful as the weight Pressler left behind in the 1990s. PAF can cope.

But yes, it is insane how Pakistan plunging itself in an internal war and enabling the U.S to successfully hold Afghanistan didn't translate into it at least being able to freely buy surplus F-16s and stockpile them at will. Countries that do less get more. There are times where it might have been prudent (and still prudent) to actually point the stick at the U.S, i.e. seal the border and tell them they're on their own from this point on wards, maybe then they'll release F-16s

Hi,

Actually there is lot more that is happening in the procurement department other than the F 16 and JF17---. The information will be released when the first batch of aircraft are available or delivered.

 

[nomi007]

why Wikipedia is showing
99 f-16s in paf inventory