Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Donatello]

@gambit

Can you lobby for AIM9X and AIM120D?

 

[Thorough Pro]

much appreciated, both the explanation on Quaranic Ayat and the perspective on M2000. I totally agree with both.

It is done becauze the person quoting is listening to someone else and quoting the text verbatum. The text goes that"and the jews and the christians will never be your friend until you follow their religion".
It needs to be emphasised that this ayat came in Madina when the prophet SAW was having arguments and debates aith the jews and christians. The ayat is meant to say that stop wastinv your time on convincing them, they will not follow you because they oppose you out of sheer jealousy or other motives rather than out of knowledge. And Allah knows best.
The problem with quoting the Quran in isolation is the loss of context. Also you need to take a situation and apply it in the context of the whole of the Quran rather than in isolation.
To give you an example the prophet SAW still maintained his pact with the jews and enacted new ones with the Christians after the revelationof this ayat somewhere between 2nd and 5th hijrah.
The situation of acquisition of arms is that you are required to get the best arms available from any source and to keepyour forces ready too the best of your capabilities. The M2Ks have been assessed 3 times by PAF and the deal not progressed beyond an interest. The last nail in that coffin was stuck in 2002-4. This episode is over. People need to move on. If the sale was not relevant in 02' it is certainly not going to become juicy in 15' when the platform has been obsolete since 02 and the manufacturing process has stopped. It is a beautiful platform and we missed out on it in the 80s due to some. PAF guys not thinki g strategically but now it would be sheer stupidity for PAF to go for it. In fact I would not be surprised if IAF goes for them.
CAN ESTEEMED MEMBERS PLEASE NOT QUOTE THE QURAN OUT OF CONTEXT AND IN ISOLATION AND INCUR SIN FOR MILEAXING OTHERS. PLEASE THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT.
Araz


Ithink AIM9X and 120 Ds might be on the cards. Would we need / be able to upgrade the 120 C5 inventory to Ds?

LOL. @Donatello come on man, don't be so desperate

@gambit

Can you lobby for AIM9X and AIM120D?

 

[fatman17]

@gambit

Can you lobby for AIM9X and AIM120D?

The 120D has just been released to the US. 120C7 is available as well as the 9X if PAF wants.

 

[gambit]

@gambit

Can you lobby for AIM9X and AIM120D?

Try this...

F-16 Block 52 vs Mirage 2000-5 Mk2 | Page 5

 

[Donatello]

The 120D has just been released to the US. 120C7 is available as well as the 9X if PAF wants.

I think it would make sense for PAF to go for it. AIM9X brings that true HOBS capability, which can help the JF-17's PL series as well. It's gonna be what, 200-300 million USD? That's not much for the capability it brings. We know our boys know how to rip the falcons aparts, just add more fangs to it....

Try this...

F-16 Block 52 vs Mirage 2000-5 Mk2 | Page 5

Can the C5 be upgraded to C7 standard?

 

[Shabi1]

I think it would make sense for PAF to go for it. AIM9X brings that true HOBS capability, which can help the JF-17's PL series as well. It's gonna be what, 200-300 million USD? That's not much for the capability it brings. We know our boys know how to rip the falcons aparts, just add more fangs to it....



Can the C5 be upgraded to C7 standard?

AIM-9X is really good but dont know if they will allow them for Pakistan yet, maybe when the option to buy another 18 F-16 Block-52+s is exercised then they could be acquired with them. The Chinese dont need any input for a better short range missile, they have the PL-10 air to air missile with 90° off-boresight angle, lock-on-before launch (LOBL) and lock-on-after launch (LOAL) capabilities. Surprised Why not already inducted in PAF with F-7PGs and JF-17s, maybe waiting for helmet mounted sight integration.
Chinese PL-10 Short Range Air-to-Air Missile | Chinese Military Review

Range for the APG-68 V9 for 5m2 aerial target is 105km and the range of the AMRAAM C5 is a little over that so dont see any practical advantage of upgrading to C7 standard which matching range at the moment. Maybe once they need maintenance to extend shelf life then they could get the update, but not an issue right now untill the F-16s get a radar upgrade to SABR.

 

[Donatello]

AIM-9X is really good but dont know if they will allow them for Pakistan yet, maybe when the option to buy another 18 F-16 Block-52+s is exercised then they could be acquired with them. The Chinese dont need any input for a better short range missile, they have the PL-10 air to air missile with 90° off-boresight angle, lock-on-before launch (LOBL) and lock-on-after launch (LOAL) capabilities. Surprised Why not already inducted in PAF with F-7PGs and JF-17s, maybe waiting for helmet mounted sight integration.
Chinese PL-10 Short Range Air-to-Air Missile | Chinese Military Review

Range for the APG-68 V9 for 5m2 aerial target is 105km and the range of the AMRAAM C5 is a little over that so dont see any practical advantage of upgrading to C7 standard which matching range at the moment. Maybe once they need maintenance to extend shelf life then they could get the update, but not an issue right now untill the F-16s get a radar upgrade to SABR.

Exact range of APG68 is not known, and for a 5m2 target, it is well over that. Otherwise why would they go for C7 and AIM120D versions, when they know that F-16s are one of the primary weapons platform for it.
Secondly the missile range quoted itself is ambiguous, depending on the scenario.....a missile in a head up chase will have less distance to travel than the one in a tail chase for a target at the outer end of the engagement zone. I mean, if the target is 70-100km away and moving away, then the missile pretty much used up it's range in just closing the gap. On the other hand a target 25km away and moving away, will have a better chance to be hit if missile has a longer range.

Since 50-70km out, the APG68 range doesn't matter, both the AIM120C5/C7 and D can have a lock. However, since the C7/D versions have more fuel, they can chase the target for a longer duration, close in and hence increase the chances of a NEZ and kill probability.

So a longer ranged AIM120 doesn't mean that he can engage from so far out.......yes that's a good reason for BVR engagement, but i need to have enough range in a missile that it can chase and hit the target that is moving away.

 

[GHOST RIDER]

Are PAF block 52 F-16s the only planes with Helmet Mounted Cueing System\Helmet Mounted Display ?

 

[Windjammer]

 

[Windjammer]

Typhoon Zappers.

Finally, after some persuading, a source found and sent me the contingent picture just before their departure for Antonio Eagle deployment. These are the one's who OWNED the Typhoons back in 2008 fleecing them 3 out of 3 in air combat!

 

[CHI RULES]

Here is question just for knowledge sake can Pakistani older F16s below Block 52 level be upgraded withj AESA radar or not, if yes then what are possibilities+costs?

 

[The Great One]

Here is question just for knowledge sake can Pakistani older F16s below Block 52 level be upgraded withj AESA radar or not, if yes then what are possibilities+costs?

Singapore is planning an Block 52 upgrade as is Taiwan and US Air National Guard.
Singapore - F-16 Block 52 Upgrade

Good for us though, RSAF Block 52's are permanently based in West Bengal.

 

[Max Pain]

Singapore is planning an Block 52 upgrade as is Taiwan and US Air National Guard.
Singapore - F-16 Block 52 Upgrade

Good for us though, RSAF Block 52's are permanently based in West Bengal.

why

 

[The Great One]

why

why what?

 

[Windjammer]

Good for us though, RSAF Block 52's are permanently based in West Bengal.

We understand your admiration for the Block-52s but these will not fight your war and save you.