Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[IceCold]

In the days when PAF was ordering the F16s this topic came up for discussion. At that time the gist of the discussion was that there was no precedent to that happenning. If PAF wanted AESA, it would have to pay not only for the integration but also for the research and development cost for the integration(Source. The Hon. Pshamim).PAF did not have the money. That was the reason why we did not have it done then.
As to now, APG68V9 is an excellent PD radar. So there does not appear to be any need for getting an AESA for the moment. Perhaps when we need MLU for the Bl 52s we might consider upgrading, but who knows what our relations with America will be like.Also with theadvent of newer technology and newer suppliers, PAFs options will open up in due course.
WaSalam
Araz

Yes sir i remember and i also remember Blain sir(where is he by the way haven't seen him around for quite some time) saying about the possibility discussed between PAF and Lockheed about possible induction without altering the frame and i think radar was AN/APG-80. Sir i have also posted an article on the previous page about a new SABR developed specifically to be inducted in the F-16s While designed initially to fit the F-16 with no structural, power or cooling modifications. What do you think about that, is it possible to equip PAF's block52 F-16s. I think an AESA radar should be preferred over the regular pulse Doppler radar on any given day, there is simply no comparison between the two. Moreover it will also give us the required experience to work and know an AESA radar which would be very fruit full with the future development of JF-17. Your thoughts on this sir?

 

[mean_bird]

Well there was recently a new radar unveiled that is aiming at aircraft like the f-16

Thanks, I wasn't aware of that development...so whats the latest? has it been fitted on any F-16?

 

[araz]

Yes sir i remember and i also remember Blain sir(where is he by the way haven't seen him around for quite some time) saying about the possibility discussed between PAF and Lockheed about possible induction without altering the frame and i think radar was AN/APG-80. Sir i have also posted an article on the previous page about a new SABR developed specifically to be inducted in the F-16s While designed initially to fit the F-16 with no structural, power or cooling modifications. What do you think about that, is it possible to equip PAF's block52 F-16s. I think an AESA radar should be preferred over the regular pulse Doppler radar on any given day, there is simply no comparison between the two. Moreover it will also give us the required experience to work and know an AESA radar which would be very fruit full with the future development of JF-17. Your thoughts on this sir?

Icecold.
US is not changing all its radars from PDs to AESAand they still have quite a few F16s in running. I think I hav3e read an article on one of the fora, that there is not much between APG68V9 and the new AESA with regards to performance. i think the technology needs to mature and become cheaper, which it is not at the moment. even in the next 3-5 yrs the price of AESA will drop down considerably. If you look at the future acquisitions of PAF, with regards to 2nd tranche thunder and FC20, this would be the right time for PAF to approach various quarters.
the other thing that we do not know is what is going on in China. General opinion is that they are a decade behind, but with huge reserves and financial depth, who knows where they will be in the next 3-5 yrs. I need not emphasize the advantage of keeping your surprise element to your self. Also please also consider that our response is India specific . What do they have in the bag that we need to defend against. I donth think the threat perception is enough for PAF to splash money around now.
My 2 Paisas worth
WaSalam
Araz

 

[saiko]

AESA would be nice for the PAF but it is probably an un-necessary expense at the moment given its probable opposition.

You could get by with a quality PESA radar, no problem. Or even a qualty MSA radar.

 

[Munir]

the other thing that we do not know is what is going on in China. General opinion is that they are a decade behind, but with huge reserves and financial depth, who knows where they will be in the next 3-5 yrs. I need not emphasize the advantage of keeping your surprise element to your self. Also please also consider that our response is India specific . What do they have in the bag that we need to defend against. I donth think the threat perception is enough for PAF to splash money around now.
My 2 Paisas worth
WaSalam
Araz

According to people I do pay attention to the Chinese will have the most impossible technology (high performance fighter engines) mastered. The rest in between now and three years. They mastered everytime certain fields and if they are succeeding in improving J11, busy with J10B and finishing first edition JF17 then do remind that 10 years ago they produced large quatities of F6, A5 and were trying a new wing on a F7... Do you still think they are that far behind if they showed Israel and USA that they can keep their AWACS and now the Chinese produced multiple AWACS systems... What do you need to know?

 

[pakpower]

According to people I do pay attention to the Chinese will have the most impossible technology (high performance fighter engines) mastered. The rest in between now and three years. They mastered everytime certain fields and if they are succeeding in improving J11, busy with J10B and finishing first edition JF17 then do remind that 10 years ago they produced large quatities of F6, A5 and were trying a new wing on a F7... Do you still think they are that far behind if they showed Israel and USA that they can keep their AWACS and now the Chinese produced multiple AWACS systems... What do you need to know?

Well said brother Chineese are master of everything and also very hard working in every field of life and that also shows, one more important thing that we have to learn this attitude towrds from china to be successful in life other wise there is a no way for us we find our selves in the middle of desert and nobody to help us.

We have to change our attitudes and way of lives in order to achieve the greatness in every field of life.

 

[Super Falcon]

currently which F 16 we are getting are they are coming with aesa radar

 

[sancho]

currently which F 16 we are getting are they are coming with aesa radar

If I'm not wrong only F16 block 60 has AESA radar and PAF will get block 52+ with AGP 68 radar.

AN/APG-68 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[IceCold]

If I'm not wrong only F16 block 60 has AESA radar and PAF will get block 52+ with AGP 68 radar.

AN/APG-68 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Did we say otherwise. We are just discussing possibilities here.

 

[araz]

According to people I do pay attention to the Chinese will have the most impossible technology (high performance fighter engines) mastered. The rest in between now and three years. They mastered everytime certain fields and if they are succeeding in improving J11, busy with J10B and finishing first edition JF17 then do remind that 10 years ago they produced large quatities of F6, A5 and were trying a new wing on a F7... Do you still think they are that far behind if they showed Israel and USA that they can keep their AWACS and now the Chinese produced multiple AWACS systems... What do you need to know?

munir
IfI may say so this is rather optimistic. I am fully aware of the progress that china has made in the field s of avionics and fighter plane technology. They have projects that are in the pipeline. But to say that they will master everything in 3 yrs is unlikely. PAF is still looking for an engine for Thunder, though this may have been a ploy to gain interests from various vendors to negotiate other items. However, with J10 as you well know, the engine issue is one of the major impediment in the sale to Pakistan.3 yrs in research is not a long time, one problem in the process could set you back 3-5 yrs. Yes we are all optimistic but should have a bit of caution associated with it. No disrespect meant .
WaSalam
Araz

 

[TOPGUN]

Ok of topic here i wonder if we will just keep or same schme on the new birds and even the old ones ?

 

[sancho]

Did we say otherwise. We are just discussing possibilities here.

Did I say anything related to the discussion, or did I just answer Super Falcons question?

 

[mean_bird]

Northrop Grumman Conducts Successful First Flight of New Scalable Agile Beam Radar (SABR)

LINTHICUM, Md. - Nov. 18, 2008 - Northrop Grumman Corporation (NYSE: NOC) has successfully conducted the first demonstration flight of the company’s newest Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) fighter sensor, the Scalable Agile Beam Radar (SABR). SABR is being developed as a significant avionics enhancement for the existing fleet of F-16s and other fighter aircraft worldwide.

“This first flight marks a major milestone in our effort to develop an AESA radar designed specifically to meet current F-16 power, cooling, and interface requirements,” said Arlene Camp, director of Advanced F-16 Radar Programs at Northrop Grumman. "Although designed specifically for the F-16, SABR is scalable and adaptable to other platforms and missions."

SABR completed its first flight ahead of schedule on November 16, successfully detecting and displaying numerous aerial targets, and exceeding first flight predictions, Camp noted.

"This demonstration flight is the first in a series scheduled over the next few weeks as we transition SABR from a laboratory environment to an operational flight environment,” said Camp. “The Sabreliner testbed aircraft has an actual F-16 radome and avionics. We’ve used the Sabreliner for more than 20 years for developing and testing F-16 mechanically scanned radar hardware and software. It’s as close as you're going to get to a real F-16 flight demonstration."

"SABR is Northrop Grumman’s investment toward enhancing and sustaining the F-16's combat capability for decades to come," added Camp. "We plan to demonstrate SABR on an F-16 next year."

Compared to the mechanically-scanned array radars it is designed to replace, SABR will provide the increased performance, multi-functionality, and greater reliability inherent in AESA radars. The improved situational awareness, greater detection, high-resolution synthetic aperture radar, and interleaved air-to-air and air-to-surface mode operations will provide pilots true all-environment precision strike capability.


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So its still in the development stage and might take a while before it is available for use by current F-16 operators worldwide.

 

[IceCold]

Did I say anything related to the discussion, or did I just answer Super Falcons question?

Then i must have mistook your answer related to his query as a sarcasm. Anyways wiki is hardly a source we accept here though the radar mentioned in it is correct.

 

[Arsalan]

sorry members i have been a bit out of contact for last few weeks!! i want to know about the current status of the upgrades the F16z were having.

i searched last few page but couldnt find any post regarding the Pakistani F16 upgrades, all of us have been talking about the upgrades that are not of our concern and are not included either in the MLU of the turkish upgrade!

so can anyone please infor us where the upgradation plan have reached.

i alod not forget to mention here that i have always been negative with the MLU and now i have not heared anything in progress regarding MLU. can anyone tell if they are being carried on or have been dropped as all other US deals!!!!!!!!

i will really appreciate your response