Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[The Raven]

Thank you for being brutally honest about defencies
99% of the posters including semior elite members would never dare say we dont have HMD or HOBS or the F16 will soon become outdated without massive USA intervention upgrade to keep them relevant

All we get china will do this AND PL15 means this , we have 128 Thunders . Yes but you have left out HMD/HOBS maws and Aesa radar. Now you get Block 3 you buy just 30 .. Not even 50

Dog fighting will be vital
Bvr will crucial but no one is taking out planes from 100+ KM away certainly not regularly .

Amraam SD10 PL15 v R771 R27E Astra Derby Mica Meteore .
PL10E v Python Asraam & R73

For a "born and bred Brit with a blue passport", you sure do have some very poor English skills...in fact, the style of your prose gives you away as a banana boat immigrant. Your English skills wouldn't even pass the British Naturalisation Test.

No the first encounter with Typhoons took place in 2008, before the arrival of the AMRAAMs....while the manoeuvres with Saudi Typhoons and Eagles happened much more recently....after our F-16s had gone through MLU . And i believe the earlier F-16s are very much equipped with MAWS.

View attachment 739883

Those are not MAWS, that's the RWR. MAWS work in the optical UV or IR spectrum, RWR are radar emitter sensors.

IR/UV based MAWS are capable of detecting either Fox2 or Fox3 missiles from standoff ranges, whereas RWRs can only detect Fox3 missiles when they've gone "Pitbull" and are emitting from their radar seeker heads, at much closer ranges, typically only a few sec of flight time away from the target aircraft.. Hence why MAWS are so valuable in A2A engagements. Current gen IR MAWS such as the DAS system on the F-35 can also work as IRST sensors picking up aircraft from long ranges - the Block III has improved IR MAWS from the UV based in the Block I/II.

 

[MIRauf]

@Blacklight Carriers based aircrafts without having carrier.. interesting ...

Only In case of chanda (free) , any thing will work

Kuwait Airforce F-18s, no Carrier
Australian Airforce F-18s, no Carrier
Switzerland, F-18s, no Carrier
Finland, F-18s, no Carrier
and then we have Canada with F-18s.

I left out few, as they are operating small numbers.

Not sure why people get uptight when they hear that an Air-Force is using a Carrier based jet, it's not a hard written in stone rule that 'thou shell not use carrier based jets without a carrier.'

 

[Gripen9]

Kuwait Airforce F-18s, no Carrier
Australian Airforce F-18s, no Carrier
Switzerland, F-18s, no Carrier
Finland, F-18s, no Carrier
and then we have Canada with F-18s.

I left out few, as they are operating small numbers.

Not sure why people get uptight when they hear that an Air-Force is using a Carrier based jet, it's not a hard written in stone rule that 'thou shell not use carrier based jets without a carrier.'

IrAF F-14 Tomcats, no A/C.
Greece, and quite a few other Airforces flew A-7s which was a carrier borne interdiction aircraft.

 

[DrWatson775]

No the first encounter with Typhoons took place in 2008, before the arrival of the AMRAAMs....while the manoeuvres with Saudi Typhoons and Eagles happened much more recently....after our F-16s had gone through MLU . And i believe the earlier F-16s are very much equipped with MAWS.

View attachment 739883

The small bumps in the nose the arrow is pointing to are related to ECM, not MAWs ; read it somewhere...

 

[m52k85]

So does that mean PAF MLU F-16 A and Bs dont have MAWS?

 

[VkdIndian]

In a shooting war between two equally matched foes, the success rate would be around 25-30% at best, as there is yet to be a weapon that would be a be all end all of the air warfare and bvr like all such overhyped weapons before it proved less than wt was anticipated from them.

This sounds a more practical assessment of kill rate.

Even with only 50% success rate we will be able to knock out 250 frontline fighters.

50% kill rate for the number of BVRs fired applicable to both sides in a progressive manner wouldn’t mean the same for both the Airforces.

those friends can do a lot of damage to make sure their equipment in our armed forces does not produce the desired result eg all our caucasian friends have to do is mess with our GPS coordinates and then we will see how well the mid-course updates on our 120c5 work, giving PAF that magic figure of 90 % kill probability

Anything and everything relying on US provided positioning services is likely to be degraded as per their whims. It is bound have an impact on weapons and services relying on US GPS. Those relying on GLONASS, BeiDou NavIC etc may be better off.

 

[The Raven]

So does that mean PAF MLU F-16 A and Bs dont have MAWS?

No, they don't.

 

[Scorpiooo]

What will be the cost of PAF F16 MLU and ADF to be upgraded to V standard .. per fighter cost anyone have idea ?

 

[Yasser76]

What will be the cost of PAF F16 MLU and ADF to be upgraded to V standard .. per fighter cost anyone have idea ?

in 2011 Taiwan paid $5.3 Billion for upgrading 141 F-16s to V. So in today's money we are probably looking at around $ Billion for our 75 airframes. (deal included weapons)

 

[Scorpiooo]

in 2011 Taiwan paid $5.3 Billion for upgrading 141 F-16s to V. So in today's money we are probably looking at around $ Billion for our 75 airframes. (deal included weapons)

But if i am not wrong there jet has not gone fro any update before that .. so cost will be high

 

[Yasser76]

But if i am not wrong there jet has not gone fro any update before that .. so cost will be high

Yes, but I am unsure cost of V upprade will be much cheaper just as we went through MLUs, themain expense will be the AESA radar....

 

[Scorpiooo]

Yes, but I am unsure cost of V upprade will be much cheaper just as we went through MLUs, themain expense will be the AESA radar....

Yes you totally right, but my question was to convert MLU to V , how much it cost

 

[MIRauf]

IrAF F-14 Tomcats, no A/C.
Greece, and quite a few other Airforces flew A-7s which was a carrier borne interdiction aircraft.

So true,

I left the IIAF F-14s as it was selected by then Shah rather then the Air-Force, but either way an awesome combo he signed ( F-14s providing top cover for F-16s ), IIAF would have been a force to reckon with.

I excluded A-7s even though PAF coveted it through out the 70s ( OMG , PAF chasing after a Carrier jet ? ) since it was adopted by USAF and US ANG, holly sh.t, USAF and ANG using Carrier based jet, what on earth ?

PS: Corrected RIAF to IIAF.

 

[SQ8]

Yes you totally right, but my question was to convert MLU to V , how much it cost

Theoretically the same as it cost Taiwan but the benefit of it would be short lived for the life left in the airframes.

Better to look to procurement of replacement Block-30s and 40s from AMARG.

 

[Scorpiooo]

Theoretically the same as it cost Taiwan but the benefit of it would be short lived for the life left in the airframes.

Better to look to procurement of replacement Block-30s and 40s from AMARG.

You are right to have EDA or 3rd part upgraded to V will more sensible, it will also increase numbers and will not have dought to stuck by some restrictions with American