Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Yasser76]

New Tawain/Morrocco order is good news for PAF as keeps options open for PAF for F-16V upgrade for longer period. Lockheed now have a 140 aircraft backlog which means F-16s will be being produced for another 3 years now. Gives us time to place an additional small order and upgrade current Vipers. Probably very possible under a Biden administration

 

[mingle]

New Tawain/Morrocco order is good news for PAF as keeps options open for PAF for F-16V upgrade for longer period. Lockheed now have a 140 aircraft backlog which means F-16s will be being produced for another 3 years now. Gives us time to place an additional small order and upgrade current Vipers. Probably very possible under a Biden administration

Both administrations no matter who wins we are ok. What you think the buying cost and upgradtion of Iraqi blk 52 along our blk 52s??? yes only benefit is time I agree on that

 

[Vapour]

@Bilal Khan (Quwa)

From what I interpret, the issue with procurement of US military hardware, be it F-16s or Vipers, is the withholding of CSF and Pakistan Army's unwillingness to purchase any hardware at full prices because of the US' track record of supplying to Pakistan?

Even today, should Pakistan have the funds and the military and political directive to procure F-16s, the US establishment, Pentagon and Congress would likely approve of a sale due to two reasons. The economic benefits of doing business in a post COVID-19 world as well as the dependence from Pakistan that the capability provides is also invaluable, especially in such an increasingly black and white, geopolitical environment (Pak being firmly entrenched in the China camp).

 

[mingle]

@Bilal Khan (Quwa)

From what I interpret, the issue with procurement of US military hardware, be it F-16s or Vipers, is the withholding of CSF and Pakistan Army's unwillingness to purchase any hardware at full prices because of the US' track record of supplying to Pakistan?

Even today, should Pakistan have the funds and the military and political directive to procure F-16s, the US establishment, Pentagon and Congress would likely approve of a sale due to two reasons. The economic benefits of doing business in a post COVID-19 world as well as the dependence from Pakistan that the capability provides is also invaluable, especially in such an increasingly black and white, geopolitical environment (Pak being firmly entrenched in the China camp).

If I am desion maker I will invite LM to open a line at Kamra with 5 - 7billions for 100+ jets is a big number also ask them to upgrade our current fleet including future upgardations we can achieve max what india failed in 10 billions bring LM at home

 

[Raider 21]

If I am desion maker I will invite LM to open a line at Kamra with 5 - 7billions for 100+ jets is a big number also ask them to upgrade our current fleet including future upgardations we can achieve max what india failed in 10 billions bring LM at home

This was discussed and offered at one point by GD or Northrop in the 1980s....

 

[mingle]

This was discussed and offered at one point by GD or Northrop in the 1980s....

Yeh you right Sir but these Blk70 are realy cheap with 5 billions US selling 90 copies PAF should look at it establish a separate line by LM at Pak and assemble local will be even more cheap with local fleet upgrades I am surprised to be Honest but hey its a standard Package like police cruisers it's a goodtime for PAF after COVID I hope they will take advantage of it.

 

[Raider 21]

Yeh you right Sir but these Blk70 are realy cheap with 5 billions US selling 90 copies PAF should look at it establish a separate line by LM at Pak and assemble local will be even more cheap with local fleet upgrades I am surprised to be Honest but hey its a standard Package like police cruisers it's a goodtime for PAF after COVID I hope they will take advantage of it.

In a place like Pakistan, it won't come without major corruption. Hence the hesitancy. But they have to be told from someone else rather than what's beneficial for them most of the time in front of their eyes when it comes to options. Personally I'd love to see an LM plant within PAC where Vipers would be built, upgraded and modified. Plus LM is so big, joint projects would also be possible such as modifying the airframe design or flight control system for the JF-17B as an example.

 

[mingle]

In a place like Pakistan, it won't come without major corruption. Hence the hesitancy. But they have to be told from someone else rather than what's beneficial for them most of the time in front of their eyes when it comes to options. Personally I'd love to see an LM plant within PAC where Vipers would be built, upgraded and modified. Plus LM is so big, joint projects would also be possible such as modifying the airframe design or flight control system for the JF-17B as an example.

Pak is lucky after COVID such chance will never come again 5-8 billions is not a huge amount you are right there can be LM input on our JF-17 project how we can do even better. I believe let the Americans come Pak should be a meeting point between US and China not a party in theior trade tussle

 

[Armchair]

In a place like Pakistan, it won't come without major corruption. Hence the hesitancy. But they have to be told from someone else rather than what's beneficial for them most of the time in front of their eyes when it comes to options. Personally I'd love to see an LM plant within PAC where Vipers would be built, upgraded and modified. Plus LM is so big, joint projects would also be possible such as modifying the airframe design or flight control system for the JF-17B as an example.

Trump is more interested in shoring up Boeing which is floundering in the fighter business. The Red Hawk could also be an option other than the F-16, and would essentially be a light fighter in a single seat configuration. It would have the lowest life cycle and operational cost of any fighter in the world.

It would complement F-16s perfectly.

 

[Raider 21]

Trump is more interested in shoring up Boeing which is floundering in the fighter business. The Red Hawk could also be an option other than the F-16, and would essentially be a light fighter in a single seat configuration. It would have the lowest life cycle and operational cost of any fighter in the world.

It would complement F-16s perfectly.

T-50A would complement it better with F-16s....

 

[Signalian]

@Bilal Khan (Quwa)

From what I interpret, the issue with procurement of US military hardware, be it F-16s or Vipers, is the withholding of CSF and Pakistan Army's unwillingness to purchase any hardware at full prices because of the US' track record of supplying to Pakistan?

Even today, should Pakistan have the funds and the military and political directive to procure F-16s, the US establishment, Pentagon and Congress would likely approve of a sale due to two reasons. The economic benefits of doing business in a post COVID-19 world as well as the dependence from Pakistan that the capability provides is also invaluable, especially in such an increasingly black and white, geopolitical environment (Pak being firmly entrenched in the China camp).

Should funds stop second hand F-16 A/B or C/D from USA ? I think there is more to it than just funds. Most of the A/B from boneyard would need MLU so help with jobs in LM.

 

[Armchair]

T-50A would complement it better with F-16s....

T-50A is technologically not on par with it - Red Hawk brings something completely new to the table - new manufacturing tech. Also, T-50 won't help US industry much. You have to think from the US perspective, from their perspective, T-129 or T-50 is just creating competition for their own jets.

 

[Scorpiooo]

Beauty and beast

 

[Raider 21]

T-50A is technologically not on par with it - Red Hawk brings something completely new to the table - new manufacturing tech. Also, T-50 won't help US industry much. You have to think from the US perspective, from their perspective, T-129 or T-50 is just creating competition for their own jets.

It will not only help Lockheed Martin, but Korea Aerospace Industries as well. Plus commonality with F-16s is very much guaranteed as per from what I've heard. I know someone personally who has evaluated the T-50, his background from Vipers.

Still the Red Hawk is a great design as well.

 

[Scorpiooo]

In perhaps the single biggest order for F-16 jets, Lockheed Martin has been awarded a $62 billion ten-year, fixed price contract from the US Air Force for production of F-16 aircraft for multiple Foreign Military Sale (FMS) customers.

The initial delivery order is for 90 aircraft, including both the pre-priced recurring core configuration costs at $2,862,797,674 and the engineering change proposal/undefinitized contract action for the non-recurring costs not-to-exceed $2,078,307,572 obligated at approximately $1,018,370,710.

The total value for the initial delivery order is $4,941,105,246 and will be awarded on the same date.

Work will be primarily performed in Greenville, South Carolina; and Fort Worth, Texas, and is expected to be completed Dec. 31, 2026. This contract involves 100% FMS to FMS partner nations and is the result of a sole-source acquisition. FMS funds in the amount of $3,881,168,384 are being obligated at the time of award. Air Force Life Cycle Management Center is the contracting activity, according to a US DoD release.

The official Pentagon announcement did not name the FMS countries but the contract probably includes 66 jets for Taiwan which inked a $8 billion deal with the US government in 2019.

In addition, the US concluded deals with Bulgaria for 8 weaponised F-16s for 1.16 billion. Other customers for which F-16 deals have been concluded include 14 jets for Slovaika. All this adds up to 89 jets.