Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[air marshal]

https://falcons.pk/photo/General-Dynamics-F-16AM-Fighting-Falcon/2324

 

[Amaa'n]

@The Eagle @Foxtrot Alpha
Please can you guys unban me from Notify PAF crash thread. I need to share some information on that thread.

can't help you brother i got no mod controls......you can post here and i will copy it to the other thread on your behalf

@Foxtrot Alpha @The Eagle
Can you guys un-ban me too I need to try to educate my fellow group members it will be help full

same as what i said to Myth bhai .....

 

[Nomad40]

can't help you brother i got no mod controls......you can post here and i will copy it to the other thread on your behalf

Assesment by a well known analyst.

Possibility: Looks like Compressor stalls soon after the last maneuver. The pilot tried till last moment 2 save the jet bcz there's a chance stalls may break at steady flows, hence he didn't eject His last maneuver before the crash exhibits his excellent competency

same as what i said to Myth bhai .....

(guys this is not gospel and yes I can be wrong, feel free to ask any question and or add to my argument)

Okay so this image above is basically showing the relation B/W lift characteristics and Air flow at various angles but his is very simple but the biggest point to be taken after making such arguments is that A fighter is built to be unstable and hence the maneuverability of the f-16 Now if people are suggesting that it was a stall then I would like to make Assertions to support my argument.

some of this is in Regards to the F-16 and some is general knowledge FOR THE MEMBERS

If we take a look at the the video one can clearly see that the air craft is climbing ( I have some speculation about the climb it looked a little slow) If the F-16 was in an aerodynamic stall (loosing most of its lift) we would note that the aircraft would not be climbing but it would be at a high angle of attack and the air speed would not be as such in the videos.

Another Point to be noted that if it was in-fact a stall the F-16 would not have been able to pull such a high g turn in relations to its stall speed and at those altitudes the F-16s glide ratio would have not helped a bunch and Because of the small and some what stubby wings of the F-16 it will most likely fall like a rock with a drag chute and that is of course without any engine power (Because that is how fighters fly).

The F-16 wouldn't have been able to pull those aggressive G and into the Dive/Loop because it would not have sufficient air speed it would have yawed to either side at high AOA ( The F-16 was doing a half Split S) so we know from the videos that it was already inverted and ready to commence the half loop (In case of Aero dynamic stall the pilot would have never executed the half loop instead he would have let go of the controls at let the air craft correct it self or engaged that big after burner to give it that 1:1 thrust (fly it like a stone with a rocket) or the Pilot would have tried to reduce angle of attack and take it from there.


Now Here comes the Compressor stall theory (which in my opinion did not happen) but if this was In-fact a compressor stall than here is what would have most likely happened, the F-16 would have most likely continued the some the climb and not inverted the air craft and than would have taken it from there (compressors stalls are easy to fix and P&W engine is very very robust and the intakes air flow has been designed in such a way that it eliminates un even air flow.

If you say the the compressor stall happened during the transition from Inverted - Dive even than that does not mean you loose power immediately in some cases you actually dont even lose power and with sufficient altitude the air craft would have exited any loop with ease and let Gravity do its work.

If it was a compressor stall than fighter pilots are trained to climb as high as possible to sufficient efforts in safe manner to restart the Engine if it has lost power completely and if not than get ready to do some pre ejection checks Feet off the rudder pedals push the cheeks inside to the seat rest the neck and head and pull the handle with both hands and arms firm to the sides (hope for the best).

That puff of Smoke is most probably some unburned fuel.

That picture of the F-16 where it is Labeled as stall blow out is most probably some of the debris entering the engine with the mixture of the electric discharge, wire snapping and the high speed impact of aft belly first on to the ground (BUT I COULD BE WRONG).

The members who are posting video and images of the shaheed pilots is from Feb 7 FT-7 crash and is clearly evident by the location, terrain, ejection seat mk10 and the uniform of the deceased Pilots.

Dear members as I have been unjustly banned from couple of forums I apologize for sharing my POV in this thread.

The biggest issue for me now is the delay in the transition from the dive to exiting the loop

Nothing but Respect for our Dear Fighting Falcon who knows what could be the cause


@Foxtrot Alpha thanks for sharing on the crash thread.

sincerely,

Mirage Battle Commander

 

[khanasifm]

all paper experts have stated their theories

I am guessing how many air accidents investigations have they actually conducted

leave it professionals and do not speculate

 

[adelphi]

A brief history of F-16 crashes in Pakistan
Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Wing Commander Noman Akram was martyred when his F-16 fighter jet crashed near Shakarparian in Islamabad on Wednesday. The crash was the fourth PAF plane to go down this year, although it was the first F-16 fighter jet to crash in more than ten years.

Here is a brief look at the crashes that have befallen the elite fighter jet in Pakistan over the years. A number of F-16 aircraft crashed during the 1990s, but only one such incident was reported during the first decade of the twenty-first century.

1980s: Three crashes reported
According to F-16.net, a PAF F-16 plane went down on 18 December 1986. The aircraft took off from Sargodha Airbase and hit a wild boar, causing the two pilots to eject. One of them was Sqn Ldr Faaiz Amir.

The website also reports that on 29 April 1987, a PAF F-16 was shot down by Wing Commander Amjad Javed - who had mistakenly targeted his wingman. Flight Lieutenant Shahid Sikandar Khan had ejected safely.

On 4 September 1989, a PAF pilot was martyred when his plane went down shortly after take-off from Sargodha Airbase. According to F-16.net, the pilot stressed called his lead, Sqn.Ldr. Zafar Ahsan, telling him that he was disoriented.

1990s: Five crashes reported
F-16.net reports that on 16 June 1991, an engine failure during a night training mission caused an F-16 jet to crash. The pilot, Squadron Leader Syed Hassan Raza, ejected safely. The plane had taken off from Kamra Airbase.

The same year, on 27 October, another engine failure during dogfight training mission caused an F-16 to crash in Attock. Squadron Leader Nadeem Anjum had ejected safely. The engine failure was caused by installing an unoriginal part in the engine during maintenance, the website said.

On 10 November 1993, a bird hit caused an F-16 to crash. Both pilots were able to eject safely before the plane hit the ground.

In 1994, two crashes were reported. One on 17 March, and another on 22 October. A pilot was martyred in the the first incident, which occurred due to spatial dissorientation. In the second incident, caused by a bird hit, the pilot ejected safely.

2000s: One crash reported
One F-16 crashed during the first decade of the new century. The incident happened on 17 July 2009, when during a routine night training mission, the plane crashed close to the village of NurPur, 105km south west of Sargodha. The pilot, Squadron Leader Saud Ghulam Nabi, was martyred.

https://www.geo.tv/latest/276927-a-brief-history-of-f-16-crashes-in-pakistan

 

[Readerdefence]

Hi can somebody give some info about the replacement of f16 due to on way or the other
Crashed or malfunction if any member can provide this information & how may been replaced & when this happened
Thank you

 

[Adam_Khan]

A brief history of F-16 crashes in Pakistan
Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Wing Commander Noman Akram was martyred when his F-16 fighter jet crashed near Shakarparian in Islamabad on Wednesday. The crash was the fourth PAF plane to go down this year, although it was the first F-16 fighter jet to crash in more than ten years.

Here is a brief look at the crashes that have befallen the elite fighter jet in Pakistan over the years. A number of F-16 aircraft crashed during the 1990s, but only one such incident was reported during the first decade of the twenty-first century.

1980s: Three crashes reported
According to F-16.net, a PAF F-16 plane went down on 18 December 1986. The aircraft took off from Sargodha Airbase and hit a wild boar, causing the two pilots to eject. One of them was Sqn Ldr Faaiz Amir.

The website also reports that on 29 April 1987, a PAF F-16 was shot down by Wing Commander Amjad Javed - who had mistakenly targeted his wingman. Flight Lieutenant Shahid Sikandar Khan had ejected safely.

On 4 September 1989, a PAF pilot was martyred when his plane went down shortly after take-off from Sargodha Airbase. According to F-16.net, the pilot stressed called his lead, Sqn.Ldr. Zafar Ahsan, telling him that he was disoriented.

1990s: Five crashes reported
F-16.net reports that on 16 June 1991, an engine failure during a night training mission caused an F-16 jet to crash. The pilot, Squadron Leader Syed Hassan Raza, ejected safely. The plane had taken off from Kamra Airbase.

The same year, on 27 October, another engine failure during dogfight training mission caused an F-16 to crash in Attock. Squadron Leader Nadeem Anjum had ejected safely. The engine failure was caused by installing an unoriginal part in the engine during maintenance, the website said.

On 10 November 1993, a bird hit caused an F-16 to crash. Both pilots were able to eject safely before the plane hit the ground.

In 1994, two crashes were reported. One on 17 March, and another on 22 October. A pilot was martyred in the the first incident, which occurred due to spatial dissorientation. In the second incident, caused by a bird hit, the pilot ejected safely.

2000s: One crash reported
One F-16 crashed during the first decade of the new century. The incident happened on 17 July 2009, when during a routine night training mission, the plane crashed close to the village of NurPur, 105km south west of Sargodha. The pilot, Squadron Leader Saud Ghulam Nabi, was martyred.

https://www.geo.tv/latest/276927-a-brief-history-of-f-16-crashes-in-pakistan

Quite an exemplary record, a bit sad to see so many crashes due to human error or bad luck.

 

[litman]

its strange to see more crashes when the jet was relatively new and fewer crashes later on. may be the pilots were not trained enough to fly this high performance jet at that time. 2 losses in 2 decades is a decent record by any standards. but one thing is certain we as a nation never anticipate things and learn only after huge losses. air craft lost to animal hit, terrorist attacks or in air shows are the accidents that could have been avoided.

 

[The Eagle]

@The Eagle @Foxtrot Alpha
Please can you guys unban me from Notify PAF crash thread. I need to share some information on that thread.

@Foxtrot Alpha @The Eagle
Can you guys un-ban me too I need to try to educate my fellow group members it will be help full

Use GHQ Section for such requests or a profile post at-least. Do not derail threads as such.

 

[Windjammer]

Quite an exemplary record, a bit sad to see so many crashes due to human error or bad luck.

Indeed exemplary also acknowledged by this incredible milestone.


F-16 Fighting Falcon News
Pakistani F-16s reach 100,000 accident free flight hours

October 4, 2005 (by Asif Shamim) - A three-member delegation of Pratt & Whitney called on Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Saadat, Chief of the Air Staff Pakistan Air Force at Air Headquarters to present a plaque to the Chief of the Air Staff in recognition of flying the F-16, for over 100,000 accident-free flight hours.

Lloyd W. "Fig" Newton, executive vice president, presented a plaque to the Chief of the Air Staff in recognition of flying the F-16, for over 100,000 accident-free flight hours.

They also commended the maintenance, quality control and flight safety standards of the PAF, which made this achievement possible.

Retired Gen. Lloyd Newton, along with Gen. (R) William J Begert, Vice President and Warren Boley, Vice President, remained with Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Sadaat, Chief of Air Staff for some time and discussed matters pertaining to mutual and professional interest.

 

[nomi007]

whats about the supplement of lost F-16. will the USA provide or not

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

disoriented

spatial dissorientation

Can somebody explain me what this means?

whats about the supplement of lost F-16. will the USA provide or not

why would it? Did they provided when our F16s crashed due to engine failures or when P3Cs were destroyed by terrorists? No then now it means no

 

[airomerix]

Can somebody explain me what this means?


why would it? Did they provided when our F16s crashed due to engine failures or when P3Cs were destroyed by terrorists? No then now it means no

When blood leaves the brain rendering it unable to exercise logic and common sense. Altitude, speed, pressure appear irrelevant.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

@airomerix Sir do PAF have F16s in reserve?

 

[araz]

When blood leaves the brain rendering it unable to exercise logic and common sense. Altitude, speed, pressure appear irrelevant.

My question is slightly more complex. Of the F16 inventory PAF has to this date 4 attritions. When we were in the process of acquiring more 16s we quoted our inventory at 32. The explanation was that we have had to use our own fleet to keep the rest of the fleet airworthy. I Can recall one loss to a boar, one own goal, and one CFIT during night sortie.
So when we got our supplies restored were we able to resurrect any of the platforms which we used for replacement of parts and did US give us more platforms to replace the depleted fleet. My understanding was that 2 platforms were provided while we had our own MLUed and these were to be retained after MLU process was completed. So what is our current inventory?sorry for such a long diatribe.
A