Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Trailer23]

I am still hopeful that PAF will bring the remaining 14 F-16s back with an upgrade package of MLU-4 for all of the F-16 fleet.

You're beginning to sound like @mingle with statements like those. Its admirable to have positive thoughts, but not those that'll leave you heart broken in the end.

...is there any country open to selling off their F-16 Block-52s?

The answer to that is in two points.
Yes - the US has Block 52's that they'd be willing to part with. Only other Nations (I know of) that have Block 52's are Turkey, Greece, Poland and Morocco (I think).
No - we don't have a shot in hell gettin' them.

You know the Lottery people talk of. Well its something like that. If we get any F-16's it'll be equal to hitting the jackpot.

 

[Incog_nito]

You're beginning to sound like @mingle with statements like those. Its admirable to have positive thoughts, but not those that'll leave you heart broken in the end.

The answer to that is in two points.
Yes - the US has Block 52's that they'd be willing to part with. Only other Nations (I know of) that have Block 52's are Turkey, Greece, Poland and Morocco (I think).
No - we don't have a shot in hell gettin' them.

You know the Lottery people talk of. Well its something like that. If we get any F-16's it'll be equal to hitting the jackpot.

I'm sure we will going to hit the jackpot soon. The diversification of equipment in the Pakistan Military is a very strategic move and I support this

Let's see, when the new US Govt. will be open to accepting offers from Pakistan.
I'm sure besides the 14 Block-15s, PAF has eyes on ex-USAF F-16s Block-15s with MLU-4 for the whole fleet.

 

[Trailer23]

...PAF has eyes on ex-USAF F-16s Block-15s...

Block 15's !!!

What do you plan to get out of those? They're almost 4 decades old my good man.

Had you of said Block 30's or 40's would have been something worth considering (seriously) with MLU.

But those Block 15's have seen a lot of action in the Gulf War & Bosnia. I'm pretty certain their airframe is 'The End'.

 

[mingle]

You're beginning to sound like @mingle with statements like those. Its admirable to have positive thoughts, but not those that'll leave you heart broken in the end.

The answer to that is in two points.
Yes - the US has Block 52's that they'd be willing to part with. Only other Nations (I know of) that have Block 52's are Turkey, Greece, Poland and Morocco (I think).
No - we don't have a shot in hell gettin' them.

You know the Lottery people talk of. Well its something like that. If we get any F-16's it'll be equal to hitting the jackpot.

Could be my second ID

 

[GriffinsRule]

Block 15's !!!

What do you plan to get out of those? They're almost 4 decades old my good man.

Had you of said Block 30's or 40's would have been something worth considering (seriously) with MLU.

But those Block 15's have seen a lot of action in the Gulf War & Bosnia. I'm pretty certain their airframe is 'The End'.

There are very few early block 30/40 as very few were built compared to block 15.
Then there's the airframe lives. Regardless of the block, any used F-16 will need slep/falcon up and mlu. So if in the ends it's the electronics that matter, all of which will be replaced, then it doesn't matter if we get the earlier models. At least with block 15s we already have them in service. There are still differences between each block of F-16s even if minor. However, used F-16s are now a stopgap for Pakistan until our own next gen fighter in the 2040s. Only new F-16s will serve for another 40-50 years

 

[Trailer23]

@GriffinsRule
I wish there was a way to access which jets the US have stored in their inventory. I'm sure the PAF must be having the official number - in terms of F-16's (ofcourse). No point shopping for A-10's.

I'm all for the stop gap-part, but only if we get 'em instantly without any b.s. from the DoD. Its not as if we're dealing with F-15EX or the new F-18's.

You pay for 'em and get 'em. None of this "Pay now - Get Later".

 

[GriffinsRule]

@GriffinsRule
I wish there was a way to access which jets the US have stored in their inventory. I'm sure the PAF must be having the official number - in terms of F-16's (ofcourse). No point shopping for A-10's.

I'm all for the stop gap-part, but only if we get 'em instantly without any b.s. from the DoD. Its not as if we're dealing with F-15EX or the new F-18's.

You pay for 'em and get 'em. None of this "Pay now - Get Later".

Even the get now for used ones will be a few years as you go through the different hoops involved in the purchase and then the subsequent upgrades, also time consuming.

 

[Windjammer]

 

[SQ8]

@GriffinsRule
I wish there was a way to access which jets the US have stored in their inventory. I'm sure the PAF must be having the official number - in terms of F-16's (ofcourse). No point shopping for A-10's.

I'm all for the stop gap-part, but only if we get 'em instantly without any b.s. from the DoD. Its not as if we're dealing with F-15EX or the new F-18's.

You pay for 'em and get 'em. None of this "Pay now - Get Later".

AMARC has a complete database available

 

[The Maverick]

this is still the only thing stopping indian air Force supremacy in a potential conflict. I completely understand why members still.want even base line block 40 f16 over any other fighter.

your 18 block 52 will remain the outstanding opponent for indian pilots well.into future at present..
I rate it higher than even.the block 3 thunders..
even the older f16 with mlu would be a challenge to mki and Rafale mirage 2000 fleet

 

[araz]

this is still the only thing stopping indian air Force supremacy in a potential conflict. I completely understand why members still.want even base line block 40 f16 over any other fighter.

your 18 block 52 will remain the outstanding opponent for indian pilots well.into future at present..
I rate it higher than even.the block 3 thunders..
even the older f16 with mlu would be a challenge to mki and Rafale mirage 2000 fleet

Naa bhai we are not that deluded. J10 would be-an-equally good buybut we have infrastructure for 150 F16s which would make it sensible and cheaper to buy that. The rest are all assumptions. PAF pilots and 8ndeed IAF pilots-would be good enough once properly trained on any 4th gen fighter.
A

 

[Aspen]

Naa bhai we are not that deluded. J10 would be-an-equally good buybut we have infrastructure for 150 F16s which would make it sensible and cheaper to buy that. The rest are all assumptions. PAF pilots and 8ndeed IAF pilots-would be good enough once properly trained on any 4th gen fighter.
A

Fully agree.

Even US defence experts nowadays concede that J-10C can match or beat any capability of F-16 Block 60

I would actually go for J-10C if it was between J-10C and new block F-16's because J-10C's are more capable and agile, they have higher thrust and better instantaneous turning capabilities than F-16.

Mainly F-16 has better jamming capabilities but that gap is closing very fast with PLAAF EW advancements on J-10, not to mention excellent variety of missiles like PL-15. J-10C AESA is already better than F-16.

And WS-10 equipped J-10C is still the only single engined fighter aircraft in the world to have thrust vectoring, which no F-16 or even F-35 has.

 

[mingle]

Fully agree.

Even US defence experts nowadays concede that J-10C can match or beat any capability of F-16 Block 60

I would actually go for J-10C if it was between J-10C and new block F-16's because J-10C's are more capable and agile, they have higher thrust and better instantaneous turning capabilities than F-16.

Mainly F-16 has better jamming capabilities but that gap is closing very fast with PLAAF EW advancements on J-10, not to mention excellent variety of missiles like PL-15. J-10C AESA is already better than F-16.

And WS-10 equipped J-10C is still the only single engined fighter aircraft in the world to have thrust vectoring, which no F-16 or even F-35 has.

Even if F16s are available PAF should induct J10 in medium batches an ideal replacement for our Mirages. J10 F16 along JF-17 are good enough till fifth Gen arrives

 

[araz]

Fully agree.

Even US defence experts nowadays concede that J-10C can match or beat any capability of F-16 Block 60

I would actually go for J-10C if it was between J-10C and new block F-16's because J-10C's are more capable and agile, they have higher thrust and better instantaneous turning capabilities than F-16.

Mainly F-16 has better jamming capabilities but that gap is closing very fast with PLAAF EW advancements on J-10, not to mention excellent variety of missiles like PL-15. J-10C AESA is already better than F-16.

And WS-10 equipped J-10C is still the only single engined fighter aircraft in the world to have thrust vectoring, which no F-16 or even F-35 has.

I agree to some extent. There are crucial techs like ASMs , possibly HOBS,and llng range BVRs Which the 16s might not-come with. The J10Cs will have no restrictions on those techs. However, the sheer fear in IAF at the sight of a 16 is-worth it in spite of not having the te hs one talks about.
The maturity of the 16s the readiness of our workforce both to fly and maintain it and the sheer experience available on the 16s in PAF makes PAF-say.
چھٹتی نہین ھے منہ کو یہ ظالم لگی ہوی
This remains PAFs dilema and the saga of its love with the F16s.
A

 

[khanasifm]

AMARC has a complete database available

a few points GE engine based aircraft bloc 10/30/40/50.... andp&w based aircraft are not inter changeable meaning you cannot put GE engine of an aircraft w/o mod as engine mount point are different also specs ans equipment is different so there are some older Italians aor force returned F-16A amrac but no life left or too little perhaps good for spare recovery

secondly US will not allow pac to perform any mod so too expansive to do mods else’s where

the 8 f-15 bloc 52 last time werw meant to add number to bring onesqn to max strength

I will not count on f-16 on future nor is paf

chao

I would echo the earlier sentiment that while these can use the AMRAAM, they wont be as effective with them as the MLU’s would. They are good as OCU and even OCA assets, best to not waste them in A2A unless absolutely necessary.

paf f-16 are Gr8 in a2a but a2g no Stand off weapons doubt they would be prefers role max lgb with 20 km range rather jf-17 and mirages will take a2g role with stand off weapons 60-500 km range

h2, h4, range ext kit based bombs plus cruise missile