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Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

Hi,

After all the contract signing and deals being done---there is no guarabtee that the aircraft will be delievered to Pakistan.

Because they can be held back on the whim of any congressman or senator---.
Perhaps, but there isn't the need for a up front payment (in full) either.

We sure as hell don't want to be told, "...eh yeah, about that - how 'bout you take rice & wheat 'cause the F-16's ain't happening".

Besides even they're not dumb enough to pull a stunt like that twice 'cause who's to say we back out of our Agreements relating to whatever they ask for.
 
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Before we make any agreement we must put clauses where American companies will be penalized if they fail to deliver (wishful thinking).
I doubt Americans can be trusted . Just see what they did to Iranian deal and Sanctioning our equipment is a piece of cake for them. ...
 
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Perhaps, but there isn't the need for a up front payment (in full) either.We sure as hell don't want to be told, "...eh yeah, about that - how 'bout you take rice & wheat 'cause the F-16's ain't happening".Besides even they're not dumb enough to pull a stunt like that twice 'cause who's to say we back out of our Agreements relating to whatever they ask for.

Before we make any agreement we must put clauses where American companies will be penalized if they fail to deliver (wishful thinking).
I doubt Americans can be trusted . Just see what they did to Iranian deal and Sanctioning our equipment is a piece of cake for them. ...


Hi,

You need to understand you are dealing with the american congress & senate---. Anything can happen---. They don't give a sh-it if the company is penalized---.
 
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Hi,

You need to understand you are dealing with the american congress & senate---. Anything can happen---. They don't give a sh-it if the company is penalized---.
One response to two entirely different situations.

My post was directed towards our stand and cooperation towards the stability in Afghanistan. Yeah we get it that the US Congress & Senate don't give a sh!t. But they're the ones who need us too. So they better not pull that crap this time around.

If memory serves me, the very same Congress & Senate really (did) give a sh!t when we shut down their NATO supply to Afghanistan.

_56963044_jex_1246685_de25-1.jpg
 
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One response to two entirely different situations.

My post was directed towards our stand and cooperation towards the stability in Afghanistan. Yeah we get it that the US Congress & Senate don't give a sh!t. But they're the ones who need us too. So they better not pull that crap this time around.

If memory serves me, the very same Congress & Senate really (did) give a sh!t when we shut down their NATO supply to Afghanistan.

_56963044_jex_1246685_de25-1.jpg

Hi,

Those days are gone---.
 
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Yeah, those days of blocking the NATO supply are, but what's to prevent Pakistan from putting a wrench in their further Afghanistan plans...

Lets face it, even the US (Congress & Senate included) know that this time around we're not desperate for their equipment & can walk away from the table empty handed.

A repeat is not on the cards, no matter how big of a fan one could be of the US & their shift in policies.
 
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Perhaps, but there isn't the need for a up front payment (in full) either.

We sure as hell don't want to be told, "...eh yeah, about that - how 'bout you take rice & wheat 'cause the F-16's ain't happening".

Besides even they're not dumb enough to pull a stunt like that twice 'cause who's to say we back out of our Agreements relating to whatever they ask for.
Nope ... ever heard of payment upon delivery!?
 
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It's in tranches, not one shot.

And the 1st one is before they start work.
yes but given the history of these bigots, payment upon delivery is the only way; let the US govt put in the promisory notes; a pity there is no one to drive hard bargain from Pak side.
 
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yes but given the history of these bigots, payment upon delivery is the only way; let the US govt put in the promisory notes; a pity there is no one to drive hard bargain from Pak side.
You fail to understand, to get cutting edge, reliable tech, the buyer has to sacrifice, not the seller.

Secondly, and most importantly, the T&C is created in such a manner, as to lock in the buyer, product & policy wise.
 
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You fail to understand, to get cutting edge, reliable tech, the buyer has to sacrifice, not the seller.

Secondly, and most importantly, the T&C is created in such a manner, as to lock in the buyer, product & policy wise.
I do understand very well - it is about negotiating. Everything is possible. Guarantees can be provided by the seller to the consortium doing the selling. Given if a client has been screwed again and again, you want to do the same once more? No.
 
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Hi,

After all the contract signing and deals being done---there is no guarantee that the aircraft will be delivered to Pakistan.

Because they can be held back on the whim of any congressman or senator---.

That is true, but we also need to take the chance of getting equipment our pilots are already trained on, and that we have built the requisite infrastructure to accommodate. Should we not be able to acquire the F-16 Block 70 and/or used F-16s and the upgrade kits to bring them to a similar standard, we need to show our money can be spent on Chinese J-10CE aircraft.

Furthermore, Pakistan will have to demonstrate that it will seek to strategically align more so with the interests of those that align with Pakistan. The episode of the closure of the GLOCs could be raised as Pakistan just not participating in the strategic needs of others if others don't respect the strategic needs of Pakistan.

Some Senators and Congresspersons may want to prevent introduction of advanced technology into the region, but 18-36 F-16 Block 70 with AESA radars should not be seen as changing the strategic balance when Indian is to acquire 36 AESA equipped Rafales this year. Furthermore the Indians are buying hundreds and hundreds of air to air missiles, which should be seen as destabilizing. The "February Skirmish", of all things, shows Pakistan has demonstrated it showed restraint, used the F-16s in a limited manner, and de-escalated the situation at the first possible instance. The F-16s maintained a minimum threshold, that gave options to the Pakistani military, so that the conflict, need not escalate due to Indian miscalculations. It bought the world time to let saner heads prevail, as intended when the were sold earlier this decade. This is the basis upon which the US should sell the F-16 Block 70 to Pakistan alongside the Aim-120C7 and Aim-9X-II. These are the talking points the senators and congresspersons need to be told.

Our goal should be getting a decent number of F-16 Block 70/72s; 18,24, or 36 to form a qualitative spearhead per F-16 Squadron of 2,3, or 4 planes; but the missiles that go along with them need to be as modern as possible; Aim-120C7 and Aim-9X-II, as well as the option to get a large number of used F-16s (along with MLU Kits) to replace the oldest Mirages in our Fleet. 4 Aesa Equipped F-16s per squadron should be enough to guide the rest of the fleet, with the right tactics, and save us enough money to not put all our eggs in one basket.

It's more bull than reality he is president and sherewed businessman not a university professor America is doing very good under his term Economically and he is also getting out from useless conflicts which draining US Tax payer Dollars and US lives simple don't think he is fool.

He also wants to be seen as winning "Bigly", hence the North Korean forays. He needs a big foreign policy victory that he can tout before the 2020 elections. Afghanistan would be Huuuge. :yahoo:
Helping Pakistan can help him. That too with taxpayer money to US companies. A few billion spend on weapons to a "rediscovered Ally and partner" versus tens of billions a year into a quagmire should be a no-brainer. Especially if it comes with help in ensuring the peace of the region. It can be the basis for a narrative that shows him as a peace maker and deal broker, and a solid choice for those that he may have lost over years, as we close in on 2020.
 
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That is true, but we also need to take the chance of getting equipment our pilots are already trained on, and that we have built the requisite infrastructure to accommodate. Should we not be able to acquire the F-16 Block 70 and/or used F-16s and the upgrade kits to bring them to a similar standard, we need to show our money can be spent on Chinese J-10CE aircraft.


Hi,

These pilots need to learn to fly something else---.
 
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You fail to understand, to get cutting edge, reliable tech, the buyer has to sacrifice, not the seller.

Secondly, and most importantly, the T&C is created in such a manner, as to lock in the buyer, product & policy wise.

Once proposed to create an LC and then a Bank will issue guarantee whereby amount will be released upon delivery of product while till then, it remains with Bank. Don't know why but never pushed hard for it.
 
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