Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Windjammer]

 

[HRK]

kinda odd, if you not going to use it ore often you arenot going to be good at it

I think he made those remarks for the use of blk-52+ in WOT.... we know earlier MLU jets were in use mostly then F-16 which were bought from Jordan share the burden & now JF-17s are also more active (in fact as per 6 sep special program shared at this forum as well by some member) JF-17s are flying at least 3 sortie per day

 

[khanasifm]

45+18+13 =76

2 wings at 2 mob with 2 sqn in each wing
No 39 with 5 and 11 and no 38 with 9 and 14

 

[Talon]

Aligning itself to the runway, belonging to the first ever squadron of PAF. This very F16 had met with an incident while in service in USAF in 2006. When returning from a sortie, right main gear wouldnt lock in down position, after working on the problem for 2 hours pilots landed on Edwards AFB with the right wing touching the ground. Pilots were safe, aircraft was repaired shortly afterwards and came in service with PAF two years later.. sr#92621

 

[ziaulislam]

Sir, you're entitled to your opinion.

just putting in facts, f-16 is no doubt the best aircraft, i think block 60 is better than anything out there..its also half the price of any other platform..but the problem is its not available ...

so either dont buy it..or up your diplomatic game

Mushi thought that pakistan is so important in the future that f-16 wount be blocked again, but apprently he was wrong

 

[fatman17]

just putting in facts, f-16 is no doubt the best aircraft, i think block 60 is better than anything out there..its also half the price of any other platform..but the problem is its not available ...

so either dont buy it..or up your diplomatic game

Mushi thought that pakistan is so important in the future that f-16 wount be blocked again, but apprently he was wrong

F16 is not blocked for sale. They just don't want to give it via aid money. If you have the cash no problem.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

F16 is not blocked for sale. They just don't want to give it via aid money. If you have the cash no problem.

Seems the PAF is being blocked from building its F-16 in the most cost effective way. Khawaja Asif recently said the US blocked the sale of used F-16s from Jordan. Moreover, the PAF apparently didn't once put in a request for used F-16s from the US (at AMARC), which doesn't sound right at all since we know the PAF is fine with used F-16s. So the US clearly blocked that path too. With the only apparent option being new F-16s, the PAF was being asked to stake Pakistan's national funds on an unfriendly - and borderline belligerent - US.

 

[fatman17]

Seems the PAF is being blocked from building its F-16 in the most cost effective way. Khawaja Asif recently said the US blocked the sale of used F-16s from Jordan. Moreover, the PAF apparently didn't once put in a request for used F-16s from the US (at AMARC), which doesn't sound right at all since we know the PAF is fine with used F-16s. So the US clearly blocked that path too. With the only apparent option being new F-16s, the PAF was being asked to stake Pakistan's national funds on an unfriendly - and borderline belligerent - US.

US offered EDA F16s in lieu of 28 embargoed ones, 14 were delivered (original 14 of 28 F16s) however the USN refused to release the other 14 original F16s, and for reasons only known to PAF, insisted on the delivery of the original 28 and a stalemate ensued. generally EDA F16s have logged heavy airframe hours and the embargoed 28 had not so PAF was rightly reluctant to take EDA F16s. meanwhile Belgian and Netherland F16s had similar airframe issues and the deals fell through. Jordanian F16s had low airframe hours plus were MLUed and the price was right. for the 2nd Jordanian F16 deal, the Jordanians raised the selling price which was the main hurdle not the NOC as claimed by KH.Asif (to be taken with a pinch of salt)

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

US offered EDA F16s in lieu of 28 embargoed ones, 14 were delivered (original 14 of 28 F16s) however the USN refused to release the other 14 original F16s, and for reasons only known to PAF, insisted on the delivery of the original 28 and a stalemate ensued. generally EDA F16s have logged heavy airframe hours and the embargoed 28 had not so PAF was rightly reluctant to take EDA F16s. meanwhile Belgian and Netherland F16s had similar airframe issues and the deals fell through. Jordanian F16s had low airframe hours plus were MLUed and the price was right. for the 2nd Jordanian F16 deal, the Jordanians raised the selling price which was the main hurdle not the NOC as claimed by KH.Asif (to be taken with a pinch of salt)

The F-16 Block-25s and 32s sitting at the AMARC had about 10-15 years of flight hours on them. In fact, Indonesia acquired a bunch of them several years ago. Under the EDA the airframes could be had for relatively little as well. It's unlikely the PAF had ignored the avenue entirely, there likely was a supply side block. Obama's pivot to Asia, Republican animosity, etc effectively rendered the US a cold resource for conventional defence equipment. The PAF even tried bending the narrative of saying the F-16s were essential for COIN/CT and that failed (for FMF) as well. Never mind the fact that the PN's request for 6 OHPs was also canned and that we've seen a dearth of any US equipment transfers (bar COIN equipment like MRAP, and even then, in limited numbers).

 

[ziaulislam]

US offered EDA F16s in lieu of 28 embargoed ones, 14 were delivered (original 14 of 28 F16s) however the USN refused to release the other 14 original F16s, and for reasons only known to PAF, insisted on the delivery of the original 28 and a stalemate ensued. generally EDA F16s have logged heavy airframe hours and the embargoed 28 had not so PAF was rightly reluctant to take EDA F16s. meanwhile Belgian and Netherland F16s had similar airframe issues and the deals fell through. Jordanian F16s had low airframe hours plus were MLUed and the price was right. for the 2nd Jordanian F16 deal, the Jordanians raised the selling price which was the main hurdle not the NOC as claimed by KH.Asif (to be taken with a pinch of salt)

its unlike you too ignore the obvious...
you have an official source via K. asif that they were blocked and clear examples of Romania and Indonesia that they are easily available if the go is given from the USA
now the new block 52 are available but do we have any proof of block 70/60 being available, i doubt it..

 

[khanasifm]

US offered EDA F16s in lieu of 28 embargoed ones, 14 were delivered (original 14 of 28 F16s) however the USN refused to release the other 14 original F16s, and for reasons only known to PAF, insisted on the delivery of the original 28 and a stalemate ensued. generally EDA F16s have logged heavy airframe hours and the embargoed 28 had not so PAF was rightly reluctant to take EDA F16s. meanwhile Belgian and Netherland F16s had similar airframe issues and the deals fell through. Jordanian F16s had low airframe hours plus were MLUed and the price was right. for the 2nd Jordanian F16 deal, the Jordanians raised the selling price which was the main hurdle not the NOC as claimed by KH.Asif (to be taken with a pinch of salt)

First batch of Jordanian f16 were ocu and adf version with just life extension to 8000 hours and were not full mlu which includes much more like avionics etc

Second batch of Jordanian f16 is full Mlued with about 2000 hours left on Average not sure about the price issue or USA issue but comparing to f-7 S with 2400-2600 total life, Jordanian f-16 were good for another 10-20 years depending upon hours flown per year

But Lm and pa can extend life beyond 8000 hours if needed pac developed its own inspection for a5, f6 and f7 to extend life beyond Oem stipulated life
Per paf history book for f7s Oem did not participate even after requested in the process and pac develops its own based on experience gained mainly from t37,ft5, f6 ft6 and mirages

 

[ziaulislam]

i think getting used f-16s and huge spare parts chain was the biggest plus...as indonesia got 24 C/Ds at less than 700million(including training and spares) while Romania got a/bs at less than 20M a piece but its been obviously being blocked

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

i think getting used f-16s and huge spare parts chain was the biggest plus...as indonesia got 24 C/Ds at less than 700million(including training and spares) while Romania got a/bs at less than 20M a piece but its been obviously being blocked

PAF CAS statements:

I consider it a breach of promise on their part because the United States promised to co-fund this operation (as part of its foreign military assistance). They didn’t adhere to this promise, which is very sad. As a responsible nation, you don’t do this. American funding for F-16s would have been a win-win situation for both.

http://www.bolnarratives.com/two-fronts-one-mission/​

 

[ziaulislam]

successful diplomatic victory for india

 

[Signalian]

F-16A Block-15 official spec sheet 1984.

http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/F-16A_Block_15_Falcon_SAC_-_March_1984.pdf