Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[nomi007]

is Pakistan
also have dual racket like this

 

[PK_Patriot]

that good and all, but doesn't PAF wanna focus on A2G?
F-16 even with AESA is no match for Indian SU-30MKI especially when they become Super Flankers.

and I don't think U.S would ever sign off for a U.S made AESA for Pakistan F-16 because of China

then Pakistan should go for BAE upgrades, super sukhoi are no doubt lethal but there will be always a hole to focus on

 

[PK_Patriot]

what is 4.75 gen ... it might become 4++ gen ..

I think 4.75 G fighters are F-15 SE, F-16I / Block 60, Super horenet, SU-35, Super Sukhoi, Euro fighters, Rafael, J-15 and SU-33 only

that good and all, but doesn't PAF wanna focus on A2G?
F-16 even with AESA is no match for Indian SU-30MKI especially when they become Super Flankers.

and I don't think U.S would ever sign off for a U.S made AESA for Pakistan F-16 because of China

What are comparable aircrafts in west and china to counter super sukhoi in your eyes ?

 

[gambit]

Albeit i did get an e-mail reply from LM, who were more inquisitive about my credentials rather than giving an answer to my query, however i still haven't been able to find out, why do the CFTs support or require so many access panels.
@gambit, sir your input would be highly appreciated.

Am going to guess you mean the many access panels on the tank itself ?

First...The concept of the conformal fuel tank is not new but more like going back to WW II. Keyword search 'spitfire slipper tank' or 'javelin bosom tank'.

The Gloster Javelin

...dual flush-mounted belly tanks with a capacity of 1,137 liters (300 US gallons) each were developed. These tanks were known as "bosom tanks" or "Sabrinas", the last being a nickname commonly applied to brassiere-like fixtures on British aircraft of that era -- in homage to very busty UK pinup girl / starlet Norma Sykes AKA Sabrina.

Second...Precisely because the CFT is attached to the main sections of the fuselage and not merely hanging off the wing, its design must be customized for the targeted aircraft with unique considerations for aerodynamics first and radar cross section value second.

Third...Precisely because each CFT design must be unique to the targeted aircraft, as in outer shape dictate internal construction, fuel management for each tank design must also be customized. Fuel management here is about transfer between internal compartments, if there are any, rate of transfer, and sequence of transfer. Remember, liquid mass moves (sloshes) and there should be compartmentalization of these forces.

The normal fuel transfer sequence for under wing/fuselage external fuel tank is this:

- Under consumption, engine fuel feed is from main tank and external fuel is transferred to feed main tank. This result in the external fuel tank being the first to empty.

- Under refueling, main tank is refueled to full then fuel is transferred out to the external tank. This result in the external fuel tank being the last to full.

Fuel management for a CFT in relation to main internal fuel system is the same with the under wing system with the addition of the CFT having its own fuel management due to compartments, if there are any.

Fourth...Precisely because the CFT is attached to the fuselage and the fuselage have its own maintenance access panels, there must be some provisions to access those panels THROUGH the CFT so that there is less (not zero) need to detach the CFT from the aircraft.

Upgrade Of F/A-18 Fuel Tank Gains Ground | AWIN content from Aviation Week

...the production version of the tank also will be modified to include plumbing for pumping fuel, as well as enclosures and openings for cooling and conditioning ducts.

“We have three openings,” says Walke. “One for the fuel oil heat exchangers, another for the liquid-cooling system ground fan, which is used for the radar system ground check out, and the third, which is an environmental control system auxiliary scoop that opens up on the ground and below Mach 0.5.”

The CFT bolts onto the structure at three attachment points per side, which are designed to keep loads isolated from the rest of the structure and vice versa.

F-15E.info: Strike Eagle reference and resources - F-15E.info - Conformal Fuel Tanks

Each CFT is equipped with a self-contained air pressurization and vent system, which provides regulated ram air pressure to prevent fuel boiloff at higher altitudes with lower external air pressure. Ram air is acquired from a flush inlet on the side of the CFT and it is used to pressurize all three compartments. This system also provides pressure relief of the CFT through the overboard vents during climb and aerial refueling, and vacuum relief during ground operation.

Fuel holding area of each CFT is divided into 3 compartments: forward, center and aft compartments. Each CFT contains two fuel transfer pumps, one in the center compartment and one in the aft compartment. The center pump transfers fuel from the forward and center compartments, while the aft pump transfers fuel from the aft compartment.

The CFT is a more technically complex system than the under wing/fuselage system, not just in itself but also in relation to aircraft own fuel system. Once attached, there should be minimal removal/reinstallation of the tanks and that is why there are several access panels on the tank itself, for its own maintenance issues and for access to the aircraft's own maintenance issues.

 

[Viper0011.]

Many of those engagements are recognizable as operations conducted by the USAF in Afghanistan. Obviously the F-7 strafing runs are PAF though.

These are Atlas images used by Mirages. The US -16 HUD's target acquisition and weapon explosion details are presented very differently.

It is unfortunate that they can prove to be quite costly and the US doesn't give them up easily. I wonder if the MAR-1's are compatible with our F-16s, or whether the US would allow it....

HARM has sensitive tech in it and I don't think its offered with any aid package. I am sure if you guys were to buy it, it would be available or at least the export version.
MAR-1's were built in the Western tech, so IMO the idea behind getting those was to use them on your -16's as well as integrate them with the FT.

 

[dexter]

Upgraded variant of F-16V with AESA radar.

The newest configuration of the F-16 Fighting Falcon, the F-16V, has reached a major capability milestone with the integration of a new Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar.
Group at Lockheed Martin. “It proves once again why customers turn to Lockheed Martin to upgrade their F-16 fleets and advance the mission capability of the world’s most effective 4th generation multi-role fighter.”
Taiwan moves forward as the launch customer for the new F-16V configuration.
More than 4,550 F-16 aircraft have been delivered to date, and production is expected to continue through 2017, with major upgrades being incorporated for all F-16 versions.

 

[MastanKhan]

QF16 as a drone.


The QF-16 Aerial Target Missile Test Was Successful - Business Insider

 

[Donatello]

QF16 as a drone.


The QF-16 Aerial Target Missile Test Was Successful - Business Insider

It is sad to see such an elegant bird, the finest perhaps ever, turn into a drone.

 

[syedali73]

It is sad to see such an elegant bird, the finest perhaps ever, turn into a drone.

The link heading is misleading. The actual title and news is as follows:

This Video Of An Unmanned F-16 Fighter Dodging A Missile Is A Glimpse Into The Future Of Aerial Warfare

The military plane of the future is not likely to have anyone actually inside the aircraft, and a new video released from Boeing gives us a glimpse into what that could look like.

Boeing and the U.S. Air Force have been working on converting old F-16 fighter jets into unmanned aerial targets called QF-16s so pilots can get much more realistic practice, and with a live missile test carried out earlier this week in New Mexico, they’ve gotten even closer.

From Boeing’s news release:

“The QF-16’s mission is really to act as a target and validate weapons systems. So, we do have a scoring system on the airplane and its job is to tell us basically how close the missile came and its trajectory.”

The ground control station sets the coordinates for the missile. Then, using its on board system, the QF-16 validates that the missile hit those coordinates, and detects the distance and speed of the missile. If all the data matches up, the mission is considered a “kill.”

While its first remote flight was back in Sep. 2013, this was the first time they tried shooting a missile at it.

The test was successful, and the aircraft — remotely-piloted with GoPro cameras around the cockpit — returned back to base. According to FlightGlobal, the plan is to get around 210 QF-16s operational as aerial targets in the future.

As we’ve seen with the rapid rise of drone technology and its use in Iraq and Afghanistan, the next step in weaponizing and using them over the battlefield is likely not that far off. While the military hasn’t yet published a requirement for the QF-16s to do such a task, FlightGlobal reports that “Boeing has anticipated an interest in performing that work” and is studying whether it could work alongside the MQ-1 Predator or MQ-9 Reaper drones already flying overseas.

The idea makes sense. Removing a pilot from the cockpit removes the risk of a casualty while still preserving the ability to provide air cover, and drones aren’t really affected by high G-force maneuvers that would make a human being pass out. Of course, the ethics of such a move are another matter worthy of debate.

Regardless, the remotely-piloted aircraft isn’t going away. Instead, it will only gain ground, as two former military pilots recently told Business Insider they expect the F-35 Lightning will likely be the last manned fighter jet.

 

[Donatello]

The link heading is misleading. The actual title and news is as follows:

This Video Of An Unmanned F-16 Fighter Dodging A Missile Is A Glimpse Into The Future Of Aerial Warfare

The military plane of the future is not likely to have anyone actually inside the aircraft, and a new video released from Boeing gives us a glimpse into what that could look like.

Boeing and the U.S. Air Force have been working on converting old F-16 fighter jets into unmanned aerial targets called QF-16s so pilots can get much more realistic practice, and with a live missile test carried out earlier this week in New Mexico, they’ve gotten even closer.

From Boeing’s news release:

“The QF-16’s mission is really to act as a target and validate weapons systems. So, we do have a scoring system on the airplane and its job is to tell us basically how close the missile came and its trajectory.”

The ground control station sets the coordinates for the missile. Then, using its on board system, the QF-16 validates that the missile hit those coordinates, and detects the distance and speed of the missile. If all the data matches up, the mission is considered a “kill.”

While its first remote flight was back in Sep. 2013, this was the first time they tried shooting a missile at it.

The test was successful, and the aircraft — remotely-piloted with GoPro cameras around the cockpit — returned back to base. According to FlightGlobal, the plan is to get around 210 QF-16s operational as aerial targets in the future.

As we’ve seen with the rapid rise of drone technology and its use in Iraq and Afghanistan, the next step in weaponizing and using them over the battlefield is likely not that far off. While the military hasn’t yet published a requirement for the QF-16s to do such a task, FlightGlobal reports that “Boeing has anticipated an interest in performing that work” and is studying whether it could work alongside the MQ-1 Predator or MQ-9 Reaper drones already flying overseas.

The idea makes sense. Removing a pilot from the cockpit removes the risk of a casualty while still preserving the ability to provide air cover, and drones aren’t really affected by high G-force maneuvers that would make a human being pass out. Of course, the ethics of such a move are another matter worthy of debate.

Regardless, the remotely-piloted aircraft isn’t going away. Instead, it will only gain ground, as two former military pilots recently told Business Insider they expect the F-35 Lightning will likely be the last manned fighter jet.

I know, this was long time coming, however, a plane that good needs to be flown by men, not used as a guinea pig. Just sad.

 

[Frogman]

Lockheed: F-16V Passes Radar Integration Milestone
Aug. 21, 2014 - 12:59PM | By AARON MEHTA |

Lockheed Martin's F-16V passed a major milestone this week. (Neal Chapman/Lockheed Martin)

WASHINGTON — Lockheed Martin has moved forward with a major milestone on its F-16V upgrade, the company announced this week.
The company completed a Critical Design Review to ensure Northrop Grumman’s Scalable Agile Beam Radar (SABR) design has met requirements handed down by the US Air Force. The improved radar capabilities brought by SABR are at the core of the F-16V modification.
“Completing this milestone on schedule demonstrates our ability to meet program commitments,” Roderick McLean, vice president and general manager of the F-16/F-22 Integrated Fighter Group at Lockheed Martin, said in a company statement. “It proves once again why customers turn to Lockheed Martin to upgrade their F-16 fleets and advance the mission capability of the world’s most effective 4th generation multi-role fighter.”
Taiwan is slated to be the first customer to receive the F-16V upgrade. In addition to SABR, the upgrade enhances the electronic warfare suite, mission computer and cockpit.
While Lockheed and US officials insist radar upgrades for Taiwan’s F-16 fleet are still on track, officials in Taiwan have expressed concerns over a US Air Force decision to back out of a major avionics update known as CAPES.
Northrop was selected by Lockheed over competitor Raytheon to provide the radar upgrade in a hotly contested battle. The upgrade market for F-16s, operated by 25 countries, is expected to remain a fertile growth area for companies at a time when new jet production is coming down.
The F-16V will be the most advanced model of the F-16, at a time when the legacy models are showing wear and tear. The US Air Force has ordered all F-16B and D models be checked for damage after a series of cracks grounded over half its F-16D fleet.■
Email: amehta@defensenews.com.



yes soon i believe....

That's odd. The bird pictured is an Egyptian F-16 B52.

 

[syedali73]

I know, this was long time coming, however, a plane that good needs to be flown by men, not used as a guinea pig. Just sad.

This is a technology Pakistan should look into seriously. China has also converted her J-6 into armed drones called B-6.

Around 200 retired J-6/Mig-19 fighters are thought to have been converted to UAVs as B-6 (J-6W?) drones. The aircraft had the wing-root 30mm guns, ejection seat and other life support systems removed. New remote flight control, navigational (GPS?) and fire control systems including datalink were installed. They are believed to have been stationed in Southeast China facing Taiwan (S/N 794xx). Some B-6s are seen carrying two 250kg bombs under the wings, suggesting their role as low-cost ground attack UCAVs, or as cruise missiles or decoys to probe, disrupt even suppress enemy air defence systems. Therefore the guidance system might include passive radar homing for anti-radiation missions. It was rumored that a further upgraded variant has been developed with the cockpit completely removed. Depending on the cost, B-6 could be modified to fly additional missions including ELINT, ECM and laying naval mines. Chinese Military Aviation: UAV/UCAV

 

[cengizkahra330]

actual pilots are obsolete now - that's so clear
Pakistan definitely needs to invest more heavily in UAVs

 

[Shabi1]

This is a technology Pakistan should look into seriously. China has also converted her J-6 into armed drones called B-6.

Around 200 retired J-6/Mig-19 fighters are thought to have been converted to UAVs as B-6 (J-6W?) drones. The aircraft had the wing-root 30mm guns, ejection seat and other life support systems removed. New remote flight control, navigational (GPS?) and fire control systems including datalink were installed. They are believed to have been stationed in Southeast China facing Taiwan (S/N 794xx). Some B-6s are seen carrying two 250kg bombs under the wings, suggesting their role as low-cost ground attack UCAVs, or as cruise missiles or decoys to probe, disrupt even suppress enemy air defence systems. Therefore the guidance system might include passive radar homing for anti-radiation missions. It was rumored that a further upgraded variant has been developed with the cockpit completely removed. Depending on the cost, B-6 could be modified to fly additional missions including ELINT, ECM and laying naval mines. Chinese Military Aviation: UAV/UCAV

Pakistan needs something similar to the Harpy drone, the retired jets (A-5s, F-6s and F-7s) could be converted to decoys or cruise missiles for performing SEAD/ Wild Weasel tasks. Lure the opponent to turn on there air defenses and then either strike them or have them use up their missiles so that strike jets can have safer passage. All they will need to do is fly to a designated location and then home in onto radar emissions, if they get shot down the opponent is using up missiles (delay for reload or expending ammo) and if succeeded they are putting a missile system permanently out. Israel already has this strategy and has used it.

If Pakistan already has such a strategy in place I doubt if it will be ever be made public, we can only speculate and hope.

UAVs and UCAVs will never make pilots obsolete. They will only compliment them.

 

[syedali73]

Pakistan needs something similar to the Harpy drone, the retired jets could be converted to decoys or cruise missiles for performing SEAD/ Wild Weasel tasks. Lure the opponent to turn on there air defenses and then either strike them or have them use up their missiles so that strike jets can have safer passage. Israel already does this.

UAVs and UCAVs will never make pilots obsolete. They will only compliment them.

One day they sure will, and it is purely because of the physical limitation/inadequecies of the human body for it can only withstand a certain amount of G-force.