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Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

Tuesday, January 22, 2013


US envoy, PAF chief review F-16 programme


ISLAMABAD: US Ambassador Richard Olson and Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt on Monday reviewed Pakistan’s F-16 programme. Ambassador Olson reaffirmed the importance of a strong US-Pakistan security relationship during an exchange of ideas with Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt. Both sides affirmed their mutual commitment to a strong defence relationship which they agreed should focus on achieving common objectives. Ambassador Olson and the air chief marshal reviewed the Pakistani F-16 programme and visited the home of Pakistan’s F-16s, at PAF Base Shahbaz.

“This visit, and the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) F-16 programme itself, represent concrete examples of US-Pakistan cooperation to support our shared security goals and to promote peace and stability in the region,” said Ambassador Olson. Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt welcomed the US ambassador and said, “Ambassador Olson’s visit is important because it focuses on achieving common objectives and it shows the US and Pakistan working together to strengthen cooperation to support each country’s security interests.”

The PAF has been flying F-16s since the early 1980s. In 2008, the PAF bought the advanced Block 52 model using national funds. The plane has all-weather day/night precision targeting capability. The US Foreign Military Assistance programme is helping the PAF upgrade its fleet of older F-16 aircraft to match these new capabilities. With their state-of-the-art ability to support Pakistan’s counter-terror efforts, these aircraft are the backbone of the PAF. staff report

Do we know whether there is any more to this than just a Halwa Puri trip!!! Wit hthe finances in dire straits is PAF begging for more old F16s or buyinbg old F16s and begging for their MLU kit.
Araz
 
Do we know whether there is any more to this than just a Halwa Puri trip!!! Wit hthe finances in dire straits is PAF begging for more old F16s or buyinbg old F16s and begging for their MLU kit.
Araz

when the govt. with its poor economic performance puts its defence forces under these circumstances where all major programs are being 'delayed', what choice do we have/ - pray tell?
 
when the govt. with its poor economic performance puts its defence forces under these circumstances where all major programs are being 'delayed', what choice do we have/ - pray tell?

Sir
I agree fully with you. The problems of bad governance in Pakistan are unlikely to go away anytime soon. In the process the whole nation continues to suffer.
Araz
 
Sir
I agree fully with you. The problems of bad governance in Pakistan are unlikely to go away anytime soon. In the process the whole nation continues to suffer.
Araz

and there endth the lesson - we will continue to beg and borrow
 
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Man i really hope Pakistan can raise another squadron of F-16s, either MLUs or BLK52s. I mean, they are lethal!!!!

If USA is really committed to improving relations, they should release the 14 embargoed aircraft.
 
I, for one, hope we never see those aircraft again. Assuming they operate as USN aggressors, they will have been put through numerous hours under extreme conditions that will have left the fuselage with less life than our own f-16s, which were produced before them. Those aircraft are lost causes, not only because of their age, but also the era and threat perception for which they were procured is long gone.

Fighter aircraft seldom see the kind of combat they are touted for and our f-16s, post-Soviet Invasion, were no different . For us, the 90s passed in a blaze of sanctions and the failure in Kargil. An all out war with an aggressor India never materialized. And an aggressive Pakistani endeavor across the non-Kashmiri border was impossible with an air force composed of f-6s, f-7s, and Mirages; such amazing engineering marvels...of the 60s. Ironically, our sanctioned f-16s adequately provided the defensive footing we were cornered into, following the rapid development of the Indian armed forces and lack of it on the Pakistani side.

When the f-16s were originally procured, they were a very real threat to a nation on the brink of economic collapse. Today, those very same numbers would leave us inadequately prepared. In hindsight from the resulting economic fate of the two nations, Pakistan's last chance at wresting control of Kashmir died with those initial sanctions. We could have used those f-16s then; we require them today more out of ego, to wash away the sting of the US refusal to provide them in the first place.

The damage done to the Pakistani armed forces capability was more extensive then we'd like to believe. Wiping away a crucially important decade, that ended up deciding the South Asian balance for the foreseeable future, has had geopolitical repercussions which will be felt for years. Chief among them, the dwindling reputation of an armed forces that have been the only stable and constant force in Pakistani history. The aura has been dimmed by years of non action and passing of time since the last all out conflict. We have lost far more than we will ever gain from the procurement of these specific aircraft. Less fatigued air frames would be far more beneficial, but still limited in the incremental jump in capability they'd provide the PAF in relation to it's adversary.
 
Man i really hope Pakistan can raise another squadron of F-16s, either MLUs or BLK52s. I mean, they are lethal!!!!

If USA is really committed to improving relations, they should release the 14 embargoed aircraft.


How many surplus F-16 does USA has? or how many will they be replacing with F-35 and F-22?
 
I, for one, hope we never see those aircraft again. Assuming they operate as USN aggressors, they will have been put through numerous hours under extreme conditions that will have left the fuselage with less life than our own f-16s, which were produced before them. Those aircraft are lost causes, not only because of their age, but also the era and threat perception for which they were procured is long gone.

Fighter aircraft seldom see the kind of combat they are touted for and our f-16s, post-Soviet Invasion, were no different . For us, the 90s passed in a blaze of sanctions and the failure in Kargil. An all out war with an aggressor India never materialized. And an aggressive Pakistani endeavor across the non-Kashmiri border was impossible with an air force composed of f-6s, f-7s, and Mirages; such amazing engineering marvels...of the 60s. Ironically, our sanctioned f-16s adequately provided the defensive footing we were cornered into, following the rapid development of the Indian armed forces and lack of it on the Pakistani side.

When the f-16s were originally procured, they were a very real threat to a nation on the brink of economic collapse. Today, those very same numbers would leave us inadequately prepared. In hindsight from the resulting economic fate of the two nations, Pakistan's last chance at wresting control of Kashmir died with those initial sanctions. We could have used those f-16s then; we require them today more out of ego, to wash away the sting of the US refusal to provide them in the first place.

The damage done to the Pakistani armed forces capability was more extensive then we'd like to believe. Wiping away a crucially important decade, that ended up deciding the South Asian balance for the foreseeable future, has had geopolitical repercussions which will be felt for years. Chief among them, the dwindling reputation of an armed forces that have been the only stable and constant force in Pakistani history. The aura has been dimmed by years of non action and passing of time since the last all out conflict. We have lost far more than we will ever gain from the procurement of these specific aircraft. Less fatigued air frames would be far more beneficial, but still limited in the incremental jump in capability they'd provide the PAF in relation to it's adversary.

Though i agree with the philosophy part, but MLU f-16s with AIM120s can take on anything in our adversary on east's inventory, including the upcoming Rafale.

BUt yea, i guess it is time to move on
 
How many surplus F-16 does USA has? or how many will they be replacing with F-35 and F-22?

hundreds - its all about airframe integrity when selecting from EDA stocks. after MLU the a/c are good as 'new' except for the feeling of a brand new bird.
 
L-3 Link to Upgrade Pakistan Air Force F-16 Aircrew Training Devices January 23, 2012 | *********** L-3 Link Simulation & Training (L-3 Link) announced today that it has been awarded a contract modification from the U.S. Air Force to upgrade two Pakistan Air Force (PAF) F-16C Block 52 Aircrew Training Devices (ATDs) with the company’s new SimuSphere HD-9 visual system display. This award represents the first use of SimuSphere HD-9 on training devices that will be delivered to a foreign nation. L-3 Link’s SimuSphere HD-9, which incorporates the full capabilities of the company’s HD World integrated simulation product line, will provide PAF F-16 pilots with an increased level of tactical training realism. High-definition databases, image generators and the SimuSphere HD-9 visual display will combine to create a highly realistic and relevant training environment over a geo-specific visual system database of Pakistan. The F-16C Block 52 ATDs, scheduled for delivery in 2013, will be installed and networked at Shahbaz Air Base. “This award demonstrates the value that SimuSphere HD-9 will bring to military fast jet training,” said Leonard Genna, president of L-3 Link. “SimuSphere HD-9, combined with the trainers’ overall HD World capabilities, will allow Pakistan Air Force F-16 pilots to gain training credit equivalent to live training.” SimuSphere HD-9 also provides a low-cost upgrade to trainers currently integrated with L-3 Link’s SimuSphere visual displays, in addition to offering a cost-effective option for any fast jet simulator. The PAF’s F-16C Block 52 ATDs will support new pilot, pilot conversion and advanced skills training. The trainers will incorporate L-3 Link’s simulated Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System, enabling pilots to practice control of aircraft targeting systems and sensors. In addition, pilots will be able to wear their own night vision goggles when conducting simulated nighttime missions. The two F-16C Block 52 ATDs will be supported by one mission support system, and each simulator will also have a dedicated instructor/operator station. L-3 Link is the leading provider of F-16 simulators worldwide. Since the 1970s, the company has delivered approximately 140 F-16 training devices in support of the U.S. Air Force, Air National Guard and 10 foreign nations. L-3 Link Simulation & Training is a world leader in providing total training solutions for operators and maintainers across a wide range of military platforms and air traffic control systems. The company has delivered military training systems to customer locations throughout North America, Europe, Asia and the Pacific Rim. L-3 Link is headquartered in Arlington, Texas, with key bases of operation in Binghamton, N.Y.; Orlando, Fla.; Oklahoma City,
 
Do the PAF F-16 also have tail hooks as the other ones?

The tail hooks are used for tethering the aircraft during engine tests etc, but another use is of arresting the aircraft at the end of the runway in case of brake failure or runway over run. Just like an Aircraft carrier but on the ground and as a redundancy.

Does the PAF have arresting cables at the end of it's runways? The USAF has them.
 
Do the PAF F-16 also have tail hooks as the other ones?

The tail hooks are used for tethering the aircraft during engine tests etc, but another use is of arresting the aircraft at the end of the runway in case of brake failure or runway over run. Just like an Aircraft carrier but on the ground and as a redundancy.

Does the PAF have arresting cables at the end of it's runways? The USAF has them.

They have chutes for the situation, I don't know the rest. However in my view it would be suffice to use chutes and not have the arrest cables.
 

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