Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Patriot]

Aren't you forgetting something? IAF has not only Su 30 MKIs that are BVR capable, around 70 Mig 29 and 100 Mig 21 Bisons can launch R77 too. That alone would mean nearly 400 BVR capable aircrafts, not to mention that upg Mirage (Jags should be upg too, but not sure if they will get BVR capability), first LCA and MMRCA have to be added till 2015 too.
Of course the Bisons as an aircraft will be no match for PAF new fighters, but the missile will, espacially guided by AWACS!

Objectively you have to admit that the edge can't be neutralized cause PAF can't counter the numbers of fighters, nor the quality of techs and capabilities. For example, Saab AWACS will be a plus for PAF, but IAF already have one in service, the upgraded F16 and the new one will give more power and capabilities, but so will upg Mig 29/ Mirage and more MKIs. The same time when PAF will get J10B, with AESA radar, IAF will get MMRCA with same, or better capabilities, depends on who will win. Even the point that your F16 will have AIM120C5, will be gone by the induction of MMRCA, cause most likely it will have it too (F18SH and EF use it now, EF and Rafale shoud get the Meteor by then).
PAF and IAF will modernise their fleets and will give us a lot to talk about, but the edge should remain on IAF side.

I dont think PAF wants air superioty over India.PAF mission is to neutralize any attempt by India to establish Air Superioty over Pakistan and provide Air Support to Army.Once we have BVR capable fighters i far one will be able to sleep peacefully knowing that pilot has something to fire before he gets into merge. ( I personally think Dogfights will be common in any indo-pak war).

 

[Munir]

Any scenario where PAF is no longer able to defend he nation will lead to final nuclear attack from Pak Army. I doubt they will sit and wait IAF making them a small population.

 

[blain2]

PAF and IAF will modernise their fleets and will give us a lot to talk about, but the edge should remain on IAF side.

Quantitative and qualitative edge has always been with the IAF in all of the past wars, however the man in the cockpit has made the difference in the air wars in the sub-continent. I see no reason that this case would be any different in the future.

All PAF needs is tools that can deter the IAF's aggressive posture. Training methodology and pilot training are two aspects that PAF can continue to focus on to ensure that we can maintain a credible deterrence in the air.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi Arsalan / mean-bird,

Gentlemen---I thankyou for your confidence---but I do have my share of screw ups---if you don't doubt what I say, then you won't pick up the book to find the truth in it.

This discussion if going off topic----but it is an extremely critical---.

You see, india is not your normal adversary. It is a reactionary adversary with a massive knee jerk reaction. What india may do next is not predictable---secondly---pakistan doesnot have a very favourable position in the world at this time.

Now, truly there is no nuclear surgical strike per say---but truthfully, in today's warfare, that is what it will start with---we will reason ourselves that it is just one strike to neutralize one place---but the other side may think of it in a different manner---for them it may be dooms day scenario----so then you are right---a start of hostilities between india and pakistan would end up to be a regretful scenario.

Kargil was a different time---a lots of water has passed under the bridge since then. India doesnot have the same thinking anymore and neither does pakistan. Both the nations are stressed out at this time---so mistakes and error in judgement are bound to happen---the severity of these---the humanity will pay a terrible price.

 

[qsaark]

Quantitative and qualitative edge has always been with the IAF in all of the past wars, however the man in the cockpit has made the difference in the air wars in the sub-continent. I see no reason that this case would be any different in the future.

All PAF needs is tools that can deter the IAF's aggressive posture. Training methodology and pilot training are two aspects that PAF can continue to focus on to ensure that we can maintain a credible deterrence in the air.

I agree with you, however, if 1965 war had continued for just another week or so, Pakistan Armed Forces would have lost the qualitative edge. I guess Mr. Altaf Gouhar has summed up thing pretty nicely in his book regarding the 1965 war. And again, in the future if India decided to fight for long enough time, I am pretty certain that our forces won’t be able to hold them due to their sheer number.

 

[sancho]

Quantitative and qualitative edge has always been with the IAF in all of the past wars, however the man in the cockpit has made the difference in the air wars in the sub-continent. I see no reason that this case would be any different in the future.

All PAF needs is tools that can deter the IAF's aggressive posture. Training methodology and pilot training are two aspects that PAF can continue to focus on to ensure that we can maintain a credible deterrence in the air.

I agree with you and Patriot that in our region, with the close borders dogfights are very likely. But we have to see the changes to the wars in the past, BVR missiles, AWACS support, long range cruise missiles, that are capabilities that puts the pilot in second line. He don't have to get WVR to engage another fighter necessarily, also not to enter enemy airspace to do a strike.
If you think about the last Irak, or Kosovo war, nearly all kills was BVR kills and in future with more and more unmanned aircrafts, the pilot loses importance very fast.

 

[Munir]

The drones do not fill the gap neiher do airforces the whole job... It takes a lot of time and expenses to win. And sofar in Serbia they did not win. They even lost F117...

 

[Arsalan]

Nobody is doubting the knowledge of MastanKhan here. We just have difference of opinions and each one has a reason for that.

Two things I will add-
- Japan did not have a nuclear weapon
- Japan does not share a border with US.

There's a good reason nukes weren't used in the cold war and morality isn't amongst them.

i never said that friend!
all i stated is my niew point!

however chill out we are all getting good things from this discussion, keep on with it!

thanks!
regards!

 

[Munir]

The real face of americans... Unreliable and pro India...

>>>WASHINGTON: The US House of Representatives has dropped an explicit demand for access to Dr A.Q. Khan and another for preventing terrorist attacks against India as conditions in a legislation that triples US aid to Pakistan.
In Washington’s diplomatic circles, the gesture is seen as a major concession from a house that has placed other severe conditions in the aid to Pakistan act approved on Thursday.

In April, when the two conditions were first reported in the media, Pakistan took a strong stance and said it felt ‘humiliated’ by the language of the bill implicating the country in nuclear proliferation and cross-border terrorism.

Pakistan was particularly sensitive about the clause that required it to improve relations with India as a pre-condition for US assistance, pointing out that it amounted to micromanaging a sovereign nation’s foreign policy.

The Obama administration backed Islamabad on this issue and succeeded in removing the two conditions from the bill.

But pro-Indian lawmakers tried to revive the conditions on Thursday when the House finally approved the legislation. Congressman Gary Ackerman — one of the most outspoken supporters of India in the US Congress — tried also to restrict Pakistan from using the US aid to buy jets and other weapons to confront India.

The House Foreign Affairs Committee, however, had already reworked the language to say that Islamabad would have to provide ‘access to Pakistani nationals’ connected to proliferation networks and omitted the part that named Dr Khan.

The reworked bill also required Pakistan to ‘cease support, including by any elements within the Pakistan military or its intelligence agency, to extremist and terrorist groups’ and ‘preventing cross-border attacks into neighbouring countries’ as a condition for US security assistance.

The omission of Dr Khan and India from the bill does save the Pakistani government from total humiliation but the bill passed by the house would still hold Pakistan accountable on these two specific demands.

 

[IceCold]

I have a question maybe it sounds stupid but cant really resist not to ask. Why was Pakistan not able to re-configure/modify its F-16s during the 90's era when we were under US sactions? Iran has done the same with its F-14, Cobras, why can't the same be done with our existing fleet of F-16s. The reason behing me asking this question is that we till date have no operational BVR capability. FInding a BVR missile would have not been that hard if only we could have modified our F-16s to fire one or is it really that hard to modify F-16s computer software to fire one.
With regards to my question i would ask some senior memeber to perhaps shed some light on to the matter, maybe some one who was actually linked with the whole project.

 

[Patriot]

I would like to know that as well.Why did PAF Not equip F16's with some French Radar and Missiles?Or is it not allowed by US

 

[TOPGUN]

Ok no offense to anyone but it seems as most posts here have moved away from the f-16 thread to other stories ! can we plzz stick with the topic thx.

 

[mean_bird]

Today, COAS Gen. Ashfaq Pervaiz Kiyani flew in an F-16 and took part in the ongoing operation in Swat.

 

[mean_bird]

 

[TOPGUN]

Any scenario where PAF is no longer able to defend he nation will lead to final nuclear attack from Pak Army. I doubt they will sit and wait IAF making them a small population.

First of that is not the case we can still defend our airspace so don't be negaitve ! second if nukes are used then there will be small population on both sides thisis not a guessing game its serious business many lives will be lost don't have so much pride in your iaf we are nothing less will give a punch for a punch sleep on that lets just hope for peace rahter then have wet dreams!