Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Silk]

Buying from any producer gives everyone headaches. In case of high performance fighterjets you take a gamble. I doubt Mirage 2000 being a better option. See India now paying big time. See the low numbers available in the market.

One thing you must understand is that political choice are never based on facts that are technical. Atleast PAF did that. In the west they might have low open corruption but it is a lot bigger. Eastern Europe is buying F16's. There is more behind that then we all can see. Same goes for JSF at the moment. It is all behind the scenes.

 

[masijames]

coming to this thread is like opening a graveyard

 

[blain2]

trainers, keeping up hours for more pilots, tasks that need long endurance or are complex for just one person. And during combat you can use extra eyes. Believe me. It is a lot more complex then driving a car at very high speed with lots of cars trying to hit you and at the same time you need to check and answer mail on your pocketcomputer...

I would also add that blk52 2 seaters are entirely different than the F-16 Bs that we acquired earlier. You can have a fully mission capable pilot in the rear seat and there are enough dedicated avionics in the rear seat of the blk-52s for the pilot to stay busy. PAF does not buy a lot of dual seaters because long range strike is a consideration, but not the primary one for the PAF.

In battlefield interdiction and close support (surface attack) roles, having a pilot with active sensors in the rear seat helps the pilot focus on flying and leaving the munitions delivery to the pilot in the back seat. This is not to suggest that the pilots cannot do this, but with so many inputs coming from various instruments, lightening the workload of the pilot helps.

 

[ynmian]

trainers, keeping up hours for more pilots, tasks that need long endurance or are complex for just one person. And during combat you can use extra eyes. Believe me. It is a lot more complex then driving a car at very high speed with lots of cars trying to hit you and at the same time you need to check and answer mail on your pocketcomputer...

I agree with fact "keeping up hours for more pilots" (which is new to me ), all other things u said I already knew, but just asked this question becuase ordering big quantities of Bs and Ds worried me

 

[fatman17]

coming to this thread is like opening a graveyard

.....there is a tendency to live in the past.......move on!

 

[MastanKhan]

.....there is a tendency to live in the past.......move on!

Sir,

Your past leads to your future---

Your past is the foundation on which your future is built upon---

What you have done in the past is what you end up doing in the future---

your past holds the secrets to your successes and failures---

Past is like an anchor to a ship---a ship without an anchor like a boat without a sail---

those who forget their past---find no place in the future---

Got some more---


your past is like your shadow---you can never run away from it---

your past will stay with you the rest of your life and you will take it to your grave with you---

what you have done in the past---that is what you will reap in the future---

you will die one day----but your generations to come will suffer for what you have done in the past or what you didnot do in the past

without a comprehensive and a solid past---there is no workable and profitable future

you will be haunted by the misdeeds of the past the rest of your life

 

[farhan_9909]

Sir,

Your past leads to your future---

Your past is the foundation on which your future is built upon---

What you have done in the past is what you end up doing in the future---

your past holds the secrets to your successes and failures---

Past is like an anchor to a ship---a ship without an anchor like a boat without a sail---

those who forget their past---find no place in the future---

really Good yaar

 

[razgriz19]

extract from Jane's;

"Previously, in July 2007, the US agreed to deliver 28 additional F-16 fighter aircraft (13 F-16As and 15 F-16Bs) to Pakistan, following service with the USAF and US Navy. These aircraft were donated except for transportation costs, but were purchased and paid for by Pakistan many years ago only to fall foul of an embargo. All of the USAF machines (three F-16As and 11 F-16Bs) were handed over by July 2008, but the US Navy has not agreed to release its aircraft (10 F-16As and four F-16Bs)"

they owe us 14 a/c!

do we seriously have to go over this again..?
they paid us back our money for the 14 a/c that they owe us (in grains, and some money, i guess...)

i kno we paid money for new a/c and they gave us old (almost dead) a/c, but thats US u kno.....nothing we can do about it.....

 

[MastanKhan]

do we seriously have to go over this again..?
they paid us back our money for the 14 a/c that they owe us (in grains, and some money, i guess...)

i kno we paid money for new a/c and they gave us old (almost dead) a/c, but thats US u kno.....nothing we can do about it.....

Hi,

My good man---you don't get it---it is not the U S that is the problem---it is us that is the problem---we knowingly dumped the money into the pit---.

Here is what happened---I was in the united states at that time---the news was rife that there are sanctions coming on pakistan---there were congressmen and senators who were putting up resolutions against pakistan for sanctions---.

Pakistanis made themselves believe into an illusion that it won't happen---the bill to sanction pakistan was presented to Reagon many a times---he rejected it---because Reagan had political strength---when it was presented to Bush---he was a politically weak president---he could not say no---and signed the bill.

Whereas pak was watching all this happen and they still went ahead with the deal---the worst thing they did was kept on paying on the deal----they could have stopped right then and there and saved some 600 million dollars---but they kept on putting money into the bad deal---.

Let me make it clear---the sanctions came---no delivery---so pak insteda of stopping the payments kept on paying---if they would have known anything about american law---they would have immediately stopped payments---taken that money towards the purchase of Mirage 2000---. The americans courts allow the stoppage of payments in case of a dispute---then pak should have filed a law suit for breach of contract.

Pak believed that it would offend the americans---they fools they were---america is a litigation rich society---for them---a lawsuit is as rightful as breathing oxygen---and in the end no hard feelings after the verdict---life moves on---pak didnot know that---they nobody to tell them---they were clueless to what it meant---.

Why I keep harping about it----because pak has never invested in understanding the americans---pak has their own claustrophobic views about america and they believe that they are right---.

The americans did what the american law stated----pak didnot do what pak law stated----pak didnot look for its interest---. PLEASE DON'T BLAME THE AMERICANS---.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Sir,

Your past leads to your future---

Your past is the foundation on which your future is built upon---

What you have done in the past is what you end up doing in the future---

your past holds the secrets to your successes and failures---

Past is like an anchor to a ship---a ship without an anchor like a boat without a sail---

those who forget their past---find no place in the future---

Right on the spot sir. Unfortunately, we find 'move on' everywhere in our society.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

"Pakistanis made themselves believe into an illusion that it won't happen---the bill to sanction pakistan was presented to Reagon many a times---he rejected it---because Reagan had political strength---when it was presented to Bush---he was a politically weak president---he could not say no---and signed the bill."

Sir, I'd blame Pakistani Americans too...There is no Pakistani American lobby group at federal level in the U.S....Had there been a strong lobby of Pakistanis, the outcome of our relationship with the U.S. would have been different.

Edit: I think that we had a chance to become influential during USSR-Afghan war...However, we waisted it, our foreign office and citizens...

The guy said peanuts and got birds in return...no one thought about social interaction/creating an influential lobby group

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Pakistanis don't give a sh---it about pakistani lobby in the U S---actually they are totally clueless to what it is---even the great CH Chief judge had passed some idiotic comments about the expnditure on a lobbying group by pak govt in the U S.

Whereas in other nations, political leaders and local public listen to their expats and try to get a better picture---paks consider the expats as outsiders---.

 

[Mani2020]

Hi,

Pakistanis don't give a sh---it about pakistani lobby in the U S---actually they are totally clueless to what it is---even the great CH Chief judge had passed some idiotic comments about the expnditure on a lobbying group by pak govt in the U S.

Whereas in other nations, political leaders and local public listen to their expats and try to get a better picture---paks consider the expats as outsiders---.

Sir you are talking about this, lol i have seen many Pakistani's who after migrating to US even don't want to call them Pakistani's .Cheap mentality

 

[SQ8]

Sir you are talking about this, lol i have seen many Pakistani's who after migrating to US even don't want to call them Pakistani's .Cheap mentality

Off topic:
Its called the Papita effect..
ever seen how you marinate meat for kebabs with papaya??
The same is with these folks..
many of these people would normally speak.."asan tussan"..or in karachi.. "Mairay Pairants"..
They hit the US.. and voila.. its a texan accent..a sudden urge for Brands..and cheap hairgel..
Upstarts like these exist all over Pakistan..


The F-16 saga is Pakistan's own fault..
Or more appropriately.. isnt it always our own fault when we mess up..
but as MK put it.. there's never a lesson learned..
only ..move on.. or "gods will"..

On a side note..
F-16's at kamra these days I think.. or passing through.. saw em flying over the motorway..

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir you are talking about this, lol i have seen many Pakistani's who after migrating to US even don't want to call them Pakistani's .Cheap mentality

Hi Mani,

You are correct in what you are saying----when allah gives a chance or oppurtunity to an individual to be someone---his true self comes out.