Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[blain2]

I hope you're right, otherwise we could see India continue to outpace Pakistan in terms of fighter tech.

Speaking of tech, do you think there's any realistic chance of Pakistan going for the Turkish upgrades for its older F-16 fighters? It's supposed to be on par with (or at least near) the block 70/72.

This would also increase the longevity of the F-16s and allow PAF to continue effectively challenging India's Sukhoi-30MKI fleet.

This could happen if India goes for F-35. Not sure what option we would have if that were to happen. If J-20 is a mature platform by then, we can manage.

Otherwise the solution to the Rafale induction is continuous evolution of PL-15 and variants for the PAF.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

The Pakistan Air Force played a vital role in the success of our historic nuclear tests. Their dedication and professionalism ensured our nation's security and sovereignty. We salute the heroes who made #YoumeTakbir possible.

 

[MastanKhan]

This could happen if India goes for F-35. Not sure what option we would have if that were to happen. If J-20 is a mature platform by then, we can manage.

Otherwise the solution to the Rafale induction is continuous evolution of PL-15 and variants for the PAF.

Hi,

As to-date---india has smartly refused to be a slave of the united states by accepting the F-35 deal---even though the US tried really really hard---.

India's condition was that it would have its own electronic suite package & the aircraft be restriction free.

It did not happen so far---& india has chosen to go its own way---.

Very smart decision---otherwise india would be under the total control of the united states---. No fuel from russia---& Mr. Jaishankar would have had to keep his mouth shut---.

 

[That Guy]

Mara bhai what would u have sent instead of the f 16 flying top cover ?
PAF did not have the j10 back then. The only other option it had was f7, k8 n mashak.
Aa both the mirage n the jf 17 was being used in a2g role.

PAF had enough thunders for both air to air and air to ground operations.

We all know why the F-16s were used instead.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

F-16C/D Block 52+ of PAF for a whole decade remained the most formidable fighter in Sub-Continent. Its said that on 27 Feb, 2019 these were used as distraction because whole IAF was monitoring their movement in center while leaving the flank empty for MLU Vipers & Co.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

The men who in the decisive moment give us freedom of the air. The proud members of Pakistan Day flypast 2022 had the honour to fly on the wings of their leader, ACM Zaheer Ahmed Baber Sodhu, CAS PAF.

 

[FuturePAF]

Currently Sweden is trying to join NATO, and Turkey is holding up the process due to its concerns about Kurdish groups in Sweden.

Part of Turkey’s demands are to acquire F-16V fighters and be allowed to carry the Ozgur upgrade on its F-16s from what I understand.

I think this could be a good time for the PAF, to ask the Turks to add in permission to allow TAI to also upgrade the PAF’s 75 F-16s to the Ozgur Standard. For Turkey it’s a defense contract for the upgrade and munitions (such as a missile to match the Meteor) for the future, as well as the first major step to selling the T-FX to the PAF. For the US, it strengthens the US-Pak relationship and decreases the need for the PAF to buy more J-10s For the PAF it would be a game changer; 100 Medium weight AESA equipped fighters, freeing up funds to upgrade the potentially 200 strong force of JF-17 to the Block 3 standard, and allow the PAF to save funds to acquire the T-FX.

I hope the PAF tries to make this diplomatic push, while a potential opportunity maybe at hand. It’s possible, with the insistence of the Turks, it could be accomplished.

For NATO, the importance of having Sweden in the alliance, and turning the Baltic into a NATO lake, is huge. Changing hundreds of years of European History. This is the time Turkey (and via Turkey, Pakistan) should be demanding everything it can get. Pakistan should use its support for Ukraine, with munitions, as another reason it should be allowed to get this upgrade.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @MMM-E @dBSPL

 

[snne]

Currently Sweden is trying to join NATO, and Turkey is holding up the process due to its concerns about Kurdish groups in Sweden.

Part of Turkey’s demands are to acquire F-16V fighters and be allowed to carry the Ozgur upgrade on its F-16s from what I understand.

I think this could be a good time for the PAF, to ask the Turks to add in permission to allow TAI to also upgrade the PAF’s 75 F-16s to the Ozgur Standard. For Turkey it’s a defense contract for the upgrade and munitions (such as a missile to match the Meteor) for the future, as well as the first major step to selling the T-FX to the PAF. For the US, it strengthens the US-Pak relationship and decreases the need for the PAF to buy more J-10s For the PAF it would be a game changer; 100 Medium weight AESA equipped fighters, freeing up funds to upgrade the potentially 200 strong force of JF-17 to the Block 3 standard, and allow the PAF to save funds to acquire the T-FX.

I hope the PAF tries to make this diplomatic push, while a potential opportunity maybe at hand. It’s possible, with the insistence of the Turks, it could be accomplished.

For NATO, the importance of having Sweden in the alliance, and turning the Baltic into a NATO lake, is huge. Changing hundreds of years of European History. This is the time Turkey (and via Turkey, Pakistan) should be demanding everything it can get. Pakistan should use its support for Ukraine, with munitions, as another reason it should be allowed to get this upgrade.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @MMM-E @dBSPL

Turkey had to pay a bloody price to get into NATO. All those damn Swedes have to do is to meet Turkey's logical and beneficial demands that would also improve Sweden's internal security immensely. Afterall, those people that they host are not ordinary citizens, they are rapists and women and children murderers.

Yet, due to Europe's biases that go back centuries, they will try to push Turks into accepting without any terms.

 

[FuturePAF]

Turkey had to pay a bloody price to get into NATO. All those damn Swedes have to do is to meet Turkey's logical and beneficial demands that would also improve Sweden's internal security immensely. Afterall, those people that they host are not ordinary citizens, they are rapists and women and children murderers.

Yet, due to Europe's biases that go back centuries, they will try to push Turks into accepting without any terms.

That’s why Turkey needs Erdogan (despite his economic performance) to stand up for Turkish interests. Many Turks have made the ultimate sacrifice to establish the republic and build its foreign relations vis a vi NATO in Korea and since.

Heck, Erdogan should be demanding Turkey back into the F-35 program to approve Swedish acceptance, especially after Greece was allowed into the F-35 program.

Turkey needs to reminder them of their own words about recent Turkish contributions.

But NATO is right to say the S-400 can’t be integrated into the NATO air defense network. Perhaps a deal of selling the S-400 on to a third party such as Qatar could end the deadlock. But, more and more this just sounds like a way to kick out Turkey under a pretext of the S-400s, because these same standards are not being applied to India and it’s S-400 purchases vis a vi potential sale of advanced weapons to India.

At the very least Turkey shouldn’t be denied the ability to upgrade their own F-16s (and upgrade the PAF F-16s) and build up their T-FX fighter.

P.S. if the Turkish and Pakistani F-16s are upgraded, it will reassure both nations of ongoing political interdependence (because both nations seem to be out in the cold from the western block) which could be leveraged in a joint effort with these two nations into Central Asia, to counter balance Iranian, Russian, and Chinese influence in that part of the world. Otherwise the western bloc will have completely ceded influence in these two nations, and have only themselves to blame when these countries make decisions based on the options available to them, as Turkey did with the S-400 purchase.

 

[nomi007]

That’s why Turkey needs Erdogan (despite his economic performance) to stand up for Turkeys interests. Many Turks have the ultimate sacrifice to establish the republic and build its foreign relations vis a vi NATO in Korea and since.

Heck, Erdogan should be demanding Turkey back into the F-35 program to approve Swedish acceptance, especially after Greece was allowed into the F-35 program.

Turkey needs to reminder them of their own words about recent Turkish contributions.

But NATO is right to say the S-400 can’t be integrated into the NATO air defense network. Perhaps a deal of selling the S-400 on to a third party such as Qatar could end the deadlock. But, more and more this just sounds like a way to kick out Turkey under a pretext of the S-400s, because these same standards are not being applied to India and it’s S-400 purchases vis a vi potential sale of advanced weapons to India.

At the very least Turkey shouldn’t be denied the ability to upgrade their own F-16s (and upgrade the PAF F-16s) and build up their T-FX fighter.

Turk S400 are very good for us. If we will purchase them this will solve problem of both of us.

 

[FuturePAF]

Turk S400 are very good for us. If we will purchase them this will solve problem of both of us.

We don’t have the money, and we need the Russians to sign off on any deal. The Russians wouldn’t mind a sale to a GCC country, but to sell to Pakistan where it could hurt Russian-Indian relations would be out of the question.

The Qataris could loans or sell these missiles a few years from now, when politics change, perhaps to a country like Indonesia that has a large area to defend.

For Pakistan, the best thing they could get is probably the Ozgur upgrade to the F-16s. That kind of upgrade brings it in line with the Block 70 F-16s as well as opens up Turkish weapons; especially the ducted ramjet equivalent of the Meteor in development. It would make the PAF F-16 fleet a match for the Rafales which the Turks need to modernize their own F-16s to counter along with the Greek F-35s in the pipeline.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

 

[ghazi52]

.,.,

 

[Falcon26]

Currently Sweden is trying to join NATO, and Turkey is holding up the process due to its concerns about Kurdish groups in Sweden.

Part of Turkey’s demands are to acquire F-16V fighters and be allowed to carry the Ozgur upgrade on its F-16s from what I understand.

I think this could be a good time for the PAF, to ask the Turks to add in permission to allow TAI to also upgrade the PAF’s 75 F-16s to the Ozgur Standard. For Turkey it’s a defense contract for the upgrade and munitions (such as a missile to match the Meteor) for the future, as well as the first major step to selling the T-FX to the PAF. For the US, it strengthens the US-Pak relationship and decreases the need for the PAF to buy more J-10s For the PAF it would be a game changer; 100 Medium weight AESA equipped fighters, freeing up funds to upgrade the potentially 200 strong force of JF-17 to the Block 3 standard, and allow the PAF to save funds to acquire the T-FX.

I hope the PAF tries to make this diplomatic push, while a potential opportunity maybe at hand. It’s possible, with the insistence of the Turks, it could be accomplished.

For NATO, the importance of having Sweden in the alliance, and turning the Baltic into a NATO lake, is huge. Changing hundreds of years of European History. This is the time Turkey (and via Turkey, Pakistan) should be demanding everything it can get. Pakistan should use its support for Ukraine, with munitions, as another reason it should be allowed to get this upgrade.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @MMM-E @dBSPL

Turkey only has the source codes for the block 30s. Anything beyond that will require a US permission.

 

[FuturePAF]

Turkey only has the source codes for the block 30s. Anything beyond that will require a US permission.

And Turkey should seek that permission as part of terms to allow Sweden’s entry into NATO, IMHO. There won’t be a better time then now.