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Pakistan ‘epicentre’ for global terrorism: Mike Mullen

We must not forget that terrorism was the direct byproduct of dictators and monarchies US installed to fight off the soviet union during cold war. And religion was adapted as a tool of choice to convince the mass populace with glorification if fighting and attacking "godless kuffars" along with massive diversion of state funds from sustainable development to filling pockets of people.

Yes we are talking about figures like King fahad and zia ul haq who both came to power by murdering righteous leaders and shaping pro-american puppet policies under their regimes. Its is only natural that once the communist were out, the "jehadi" guns were turned..the tactics used by AQ and Taliban closely resembled to those taught by CIA for long term low intensity warfare against soviet union.

King fahad replaced a progress and development minded neutral leader King Faisal by murder and Zia ul Haq did the same by judical murder of Bhutto as well introducing his own jahel version of shariah!
This is where the general foreign policy is to blame. As I said numerous times, you leaned too much in the direction of another powerful country without having your people lean more towards the state itself as a supporting pillar. While fascination and economic assistance in limited role is always preferable way of developing one's economy, excessive leaning with any power will naturally initiate a big-small relationship.

This is why I mentioned earlier that Mustafa Kemal's Turkey was a role model for your country. I really appreciate the man for turning what was called the 'sick man of Europe' to a powerful, independent and self-respecting country. And the result is for all to see today; Turkey though compliant in general of NATO rules, does not let Americans pressure her excessively.
 
the thread heading is a 'tired and recycled' topic by the west because they have nothing to show for their 'billions of $' spent in afghanistan - for every 10$ spent in a/ghanistan, only 1$ is spent on pakistan, the 'epicenter'!!!!!!!
 
And this epicentre will be the graveyard of US Empirialism and Zionism.
 
when they wanted war with afghanistan that was the epicentre for global terrorism


when they wanted war with iraq that was the epicentre for global terrorism


now they want to create a war with pakistan and they will not stop calling pakistan a state of terrorists until they have internal chaos.



there was no bombings in pakistan before us invasion, just think about that, we need to disavow the war on a noun, loudly and publicly.
 
People dropping 5000 lbs on civilians are talking about epicentric?
 
Pak Sher has anyone protested publicly about these drone attacks in America? Has anyone with connection to Pakistan protested or spread knowledge of these murders?
 
Pak Sher has anyone protested publicly about these drone attacks in America? Has anyone with connection to Pakistan protested or spread knowledge of these murders?

They have not used 5000 pound bombs in Pakistan, but US has bombed Iraq and Afghanistan's civilian populations with it. Regarding the drones, we need to bring Musharraf back and try him for treason.

But before we do that we need to ask him how he got the 900+ acres of land in Bahawalpur, sources of funds for his Chuck Shahzad Ranch in Islamabad and his 1.2 million pound flat in the UK.
 
Stop complaining about Musharraf, what he did right or wrong, his time is over, now what have you done, living in America, have you publicly protested drone attacks, have you done anything while sitting in America with regard to the drone attacks? Instead of complaining about a past leader, what have you done?
 
A lot of people in my opinion, exaggerate the ‘Islamic threat’ posed by Pakistan. A lot of people sneer and look disparagingly at Pakistan’s Islamization. A lot of people think extremists will 'take over the central government of Pakistan.' In my opinion, yes extremism has increased in Pakistan, but it is MORE to do with the current events post 2001 in our western neighbor and its effects being felt here than Pakistan's 'policy of Islamization' (which obviously plays a role as well, but not as much as Afghanistan's destabilization contributes). I believe the Islamization of Pakistan served as a mere tool of unification than 'the actual implementation of Shariah Law'. Although the Blasphemy Law and the Hadood Ordinance were brought in by Zia (parts of Hadood Ordinance were amended, hopefully Blasphemy Law too will undergo that in the future), Pakistan has never really been an 'Islamic society' on any kind of level in any part of its history.


A lot of people also think it started from Zia-ul-Haq’s time. It reached an all-time peak in Zia’s time, but the seeds were sowed in the 1950’s in the 1956 Constitution for the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. It was really brought into action during Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto’s time, where Ahmedis were declared non-Muslims constitutionally in 1973 and Pakistan started working on the ‘Muslim nuclear bomb’. It reached an all-time high during Zia’s time, when Saudi Arabia and USA along with Pakistan hosted ‘Wahabi’ Mujahideen camps that fought the Soviets: but the seeds of ‘Islamization’ were sowed earlier.


Was Pakistan wrong to ‘Islamize’? Should it have embraced a secular democracy, a model India did? The answer could be yes or no. Pakistan and India are ‘artificial’ countries. Before 1947, many states of India were ruled by their separate rulers, had separate languages, customs. Pakistan and India formed very fragmented countries in 1947. A lot of Indians and Western people sneer at Pakistan’s Islamization, and look up to India’s secular democracy. Both were right and wrong in their own ways. Pakistan and India took two very different paths in governance, and are seeing different results today.


Why did Pakistan Islamize? Because Pakistan felt it had to unify the Pakhtuns, Punjabis, Sindhis, Balochis, Muhajirs in some way. They were culturally and ethnically different in every way, religion was the glue that stuck them together. Afghanistan and Afghani Pashtuns have always looked down on Pakistan and Pakistani Pakhtuns in a dream for ‘Pashtunistan’, Pakistani Balochis have always been dreaming of reuniting with their Iranian Balochi brothers, the Muhajirs & other immigrants always had a complex leaving their Indian homeland in 1947. Both Pakhtuns and Balochis are considered to be ‘puppets’ of the Punjabis, the people that ‘actually rule Pakistan’. Religion (and the ‘Islamic Republic of Pakistan’) was a means of homogenization, the glue that stuck these different ethnicities together.


After 1971, with Pakistan losing its huge chunk of territory, I believe the Pakistani establishment started used Islam as a unification tool (& a means to get back at India), as a means to appease and unify the different ethnicities together, seeing that Balochistan and NWFP might follow East Pakistan to form independent nations from ‘Punjabized’ Pakistan. And despite a lot of problems Pakistan faces today, a recent Gallup poll in Pakistan conducted over various parts of Pakistan concluded that “The nation-state is of great significance to Pakistanis, and despite important ethnic and regional differences, national identity is strong throughout the country. Overall, 89% say they think of themselves first as Pakistani, rather than as a member of their ethnic group.” I believe that in India, most (or a lot) people consider their ethnic identity over their national identity.


India took a riskier and bolder approach of a secular democracy, which caused (and is still causing) it great distress in terms of unification and uneven ‘fortunes’ in its different states (for e.g, compare Gujarat with UP, Bihar, Chhattisgarh, Madhya Pradesh, Jharkhand, Orissa etc), but it is also reaping its rewards. But despite its economic boom, it still has over 450 million people living below the Indian poverty line of $1.25. It still has over 130 separatist insurgency movements, while Pakistan has 4, coming from Balochistan. The separatist movements in the 7 sister states, the rise of Maoists from Orissa-West Bengal all the way to Maharashtra-Andhra Pradesh and even parts of Tamil Nadu shows the risks of the ‘lack of homogenization and unification’ India has implemented by following the secular democracy model. Pakistan has in the past even managed to cause havoc in Indian administered Kashmir by using Islam and Muslim identity. Bangladesh is said to be causing havoc in NE India with its 'Islamization' as well.


Pakistan has (rightly or wrongly) appeased to the wishes of the Pakhtuns, giving them the right to self governance in FATA (which is now a huge problem for Pakistan), and even renamed NWFP as Khyber Pakhtunkhwan, which has hurt the sentiments of other minority groups in the province (such as Hazaras, Tajiks, Kalashas, Chitralis) to say the least. But as a result, there are no separatist movements in Khyber Pakhtunkhwan at the moment. But there is a problem of Islamic terrorism in the FATA region, as well as the risk of increasing extremism across the other parts of Pakistan; which is not really seen as much in India.


By adopting the secular democratic model, India is less prone to religious Islamic extremism, despite it having a whooping 130+ million Muslims in the country. It also results in a more diverse, free society accepting to minorities that focuses on development (a work in progress). But it also results in a more fragmented society in my opinion. India might have taken the riskier approach, but the greater risks one takes, the more rewards they get. Time will tell what the fate of Pakistan and India is.


Pakistani Public Opinion | Pew Global Attitudes Project
 
Is it fair to ignore facts pertaining to our growing strategic partnership against the war on terror? Has the opportunity presented itself once again for a new conspiracy theory? Should we not instead applaud the sacrifices both nations continue to make in fighting insurgency? This logic prevails when one understands the magnitude of both nations working side by side! Allow not these terrorists who continue to seek cracks in this alliance against war on terror. On a cautionary note, when faced with failure have these terrorists not turned in desperation to lies, rumors, propaganda and indiscriminate violence?

Their terrorist attacks on schools, mosques, shrines and shopping centers prove the risk that the people of Pakistan face in everyday life! These inhumane acts of terror do not spare anyone and even women have been used as suicide bombers to spread fear. The freedom with which these terror attacks are planned requires government’s utmost attention and the fact of the matter is that the homegrown insurgency can no longer be ignored and Pakistan realizes that it needs to be tackled aggressively. The misconception which often appears must be put to rest and the reality must be accepted; both nations are serving the common good by fighting the common enemy. Does not the enemy have the blood of and carry the same hostility towards both nations? Would you not agree that the seriousness of this situation requires both nations to make challenging suggestions? The US wishes a safe and secure environment for Pakistan as it does for Afghanistan. Efforts made by the US and NATO forces in Afghanistan have put victory in sight by continuing to take back control from the terrorists (links below) and it’s no secret in that the Taliban and their counterparts view Pakistan as a viable option for their operations. Is it not a reasonable assumption that the extremist Islamization used by Taliban in Afghanistan can be turned on Pakistan?

YouTube - Securing Bala Murghab

YouTube - Operation Dragon Strike Courtesy NATO TV CHANNEL

Is it not enough that they openly and boastfully take the blame for most of their indiscriminate attacks on innocents? Should the US forget its role as strategic partner while Pakistan continues to bare the loss of its innocent citizens? The sensitivity of this situation requires both nations to leave no running ground for the Taliban, so this menace could be eliminated once in for all. Contrary to your opinion, the US continues to succeed in this war on terror and understands that Pakistan is an important strategic partner to help eliminate the seeds of terrorism. The threat of terrorism will continue to linger over both nations unless its growth is uprooted! Should we overreact every time a suggestion is made by either partner? Do we not want to put an end to all the terrorist attacks that continue to happen in Pakistan? Are we wrong for wanting to prevent another 9/11, which claimed thousands of innocent lives?

LCDR Speaks,

DET, United States Central Command

CENTCOM

Well, if we find and replace terror/terrorism in above post with communism or free world we can easy date this some where near 1980-1985.
US 0f A is quite persistent in application of policies.

9/11 attacks were perpetuated by Arabs, mostly Saudis, (as charged by your government) for the reasons/motives best known to them(Arabs).
Post 9/11, Pakistanis or Afghans/Talibans have no reason/motive to attack USA or any western nation.
US of A decided to bomb back to stone age the infrastructure of mud houses and dirt roads to "erase" source and fundings of terrorism, and succeeded in infestation of Arab radicals in whole Phustun region and new teachings of suicide bombing, hostage taking for ransom, drugs trade and trafficking etc were learned and applied.

Now, the result of current endeavors of US of A is more destroyed and destabilized Afghanistan, full insurgency in Pakistan. and what the objects achieved by USA? Pakistan epicenter of Terrorism? .... Well done US o A.

Killing of innocents of by terrorists or by Americans is all the same, that is, Murder. Terrorists or US of A can't hide behind their 'lofty' ideals of religion or freedom and absolve of their crimes.

I
 
if Pakistan is the epicentre of global terrorism then it is also the epicentre of ''GLOBAL ANTI-TERRORISM''........
 
Well, if we find and replace terror/terrorism in above post with communism or free world we can easy date this some where near 1980-1985.
US 0f A is quite persistent in application of policies.

9/11 attacks were perpetuated by Arabs, mostly Saudis, (as charged by your government) for the reasons/motives best known to them(Arabs).
Post 9/11, Pakistanis or Afghans/Talibans have no reason/motive to attack USA or any western nation.
US of A decided to bomb back to stone age the infrastructure of mud houses and dirt roads to "erase" source and fundings of terrorism, and succeeded in infestation of Arab radicals in whole Phustun region and new teachings of suicide bombing, hostage taking for ransom, drugs trade and trafficking etc were learned and applied.

Now, the result of current endeavors of US of A is more destroyed and destabilized Afghanistan, full insurgency in Pakistan. and what the objects achieved by USA? Pakistan epicenter of Terrorism? .... Well done US o A.

Killing of innocents of by terrorists or by Americans is all the same, that is, Murder. Terrorists or US of A can't hide behind their 'lofty' ideals of religion or freedom and absolve of their crimes.

I

Your interpretation of the events certainly creates a room for conspiracy theory but since 9/11, the truth has continued to unfold and the verifiable information can be easily separated from mere propagandas and lies. Is it not true that 9/11 conspiracy theories are made irrelevant because those who committed these crimes have made taped confessions? Do not facts give us the straight path to conclude who the enemy is? Al Qaeda terrorists viciously attacked and claimed thousands of innocent lives on 9/11 and soon after confessed to, and claimed responsibility for planning those attacks. Here is a video in which you can see al-Qaeda along with Osama bin laden claiming responsibility for planning those attacks:

YouTube - Bin Laden "Confession" Video

In addition to this video, which conspiracy theories at the time had claimed portrayed an “actor” instead of the real Bin Laden, several other videos of the hijackers we identified, reading their wills before the attacks, were later released by the terrorist organization on subsequent anniversaries of the attacks:

YouTube - Videotape of 9-11 Hijacker Reveals al-Qaida Propaganda Efforts

YouTube - 9/11Osama Bin Laden 2007 - Part ONE

Is this not strong proof the actual perpetrators claiming responsibility for their crimes? If not, I have to ask, how much evidence do you need, before you will stop clinging to theories that conform to a narrative more convenient for you? Already too much effort has been spent by those who are concerned about the truth to debunk these outrageous claims, despite the fact that no evidence supporting them has ever been presented.
The US went to Afghanistan to accomplish a mission by eliminating the terror network and to help bring peace and stability to the nation. It is no secret to anyone the damage Taliban inflicted upon the nation of Afghanistan under their dark regime. The Taliban regime not only kept Afghans under brutal oppression, but, with great force and purpose, they kept progress and prosperity at bay. Thousands were massacred, women were forced from the country's schools and jobs, and many were left to beg on the streets for food, Taliban ruled by fear. The people of Afghanistan have begun experiencing the kind of freedom simply unimaginable years before! Did you know, In Kandahar, Provincial Governor Tooryali Wesa approved a program to develop the city’s rule of law facilities and recruit more staff? The program includes the construction of 10 police sub-stations and three Afghan National Corps of Police facilities to be used by investigators and prosecutors. Did you know, Uruzgan Province is experiencing tremendous growth in education opportunities, with 250 schools now open and more than 1,100 teachers and 425 trainees? In 2006, only 36 schools were operating in the province. Did you know, In Aibak District of Samangan Province, residents and the Afghanistan Ministry of Rural Rehabilitation and Development worked together to complete more than two dozen development projects under the government’s National Solidarity Program? The projects included resurfacing 125 miles of dirt roads with gravel, the construction of 14 small bridges, brick-lining more than 1,900 meter of drainage lanes, the construction of two water tanks, the digging of four wells, and the establishment of an embroidery training course for women. More than 3,000 families will benefit from these various projects. Did you know, The Lashkar Gah cotton factory in Helmand Province recently reopened, creating more jobs for working Afghans and invigorating the local economy? Farm communities in Marjah, Nad-e Ali, Nawa and Gereshk districts now have access to a facility capable of processing an estimated 4,000 metric tons of cotton this year. The factory’s reopening restores 175 jobs, and is expected to create up to 225 more new jobs in the coming months. Also in Mazar-e Sharif, the Afghan government, Afghan-Coalition security forces, ISAF, and residents of the area are collaborating on the Aliabad School development project. The project involves the construction of two new buildings, each of which will hold 30 classrooms, providing more space for the school’s 3,000 students. This school will develop an educated work force that will contribute to regional economic development.

U.S. Central Command | Progress in Afghanistan Highlighted by Business Growth, Job Creation and New Infrastructure Projects

Do you still conclude the US is “destabilizing Afghanistan” or leading it towards prosperity and democracy? On the other hand anyone following the recent state of affairs in Pakistan knows the citizens of Pakistan have become prime targets while the terrorists continue to cause chaos and mayhem in their bid to destabilize the nation. Is it not the government's responsibility to protect its land and assure the safety of its citizens? Do we stop terrorism by shying away from the facts and placing the blame on the US, when in fact the problem lies within Pakistan? How do you justify attacks on mosques, shrines and schools? You can, but only if you are Taliban or Al Qaeda who boastfully claim credit for these hateful acts. How do you justify killing a policewoman who refused to bow down to their evil ideology and then shooting her family members, who happened to be children, to death? You can, but only if you are the Taliban or al Qaeda for whom women are disposable. Pakistan is fully aware home grown insurgency is a potent threat and it continues to haunt Pakistanis. The government of Pakistan needs to take full responsibility for countering insurgency as it did in Swat and remove this menace once in for all for the sake of its citizens.

LCDR Speaks,
DET, United States Central Command
U.S. Central Command
 
Is it fair to ignore facts pertaining to our growing strategic partnership against the war on terror? Has the opportunity presented itself once again for a new conspiracy theory? Should we not instead applaud the sacrifices both nations continue to make in fighting insurgency? This logic prevails when one understands the magnitude of both nations working side by side! Allow not these terrorists who continue to seek cracks in this alliance against war on terror. On a cautionary note, when faced with failure have these terrorists not turned in desperation to lies, rumors, propaganda and indiscriminate violence?

Their terrorist attacks on schools, mosques, shrines and shopping centers prove the risk that the people of Pakistan face in everyday life! These inhumane acts of terror do not spare anyone and even women have been used as suicide bombers to spread fear. The freedom with which these terror attacks are planned requires government’s utmost attention and the fact of the matter is that the homegrown insurgency can no longer be ignored and Pakistan realizes that it needs to be tackled aggressively. The misconception which often appears must be put to rest and the reality must be accepted; both nations are serving the common good by fighting the common enemy. Does not the enemy have the blood of and carry the same hostility towards both nations? Would you not agree that the seriousness of this situation requires both nations to make challenging suggestions? The US wishes a safe and secure environment for Pakistan as it does for Afghanistan. Efforts made by the US and NATO forces in Afghanistan have put victory in sight by continuing to take back control from the terrorists (links below) and it’s no secret in that the Taliban and their counterparts view Pakistan as a viable option for their operations. Is it not a reasonable assumption that the extremist Islamization used by Taliban in Afghanistan can be turned on Pakistan?

YouTube - Securing Bala Murghab

YouTube - Operation Dragon Strike Courtesy NATO TV CHANNEL

Is it not enough that they openly and boastfully take the blame for most of their indiscriminate attacks on innocents? Should the US forget its role as strategic partner while Pakistan continues to bare the loss of its innocent citizens? The sensitivity of this situation requires both nations to leave no running ground for the Taliban, so this menace could be eliminated once in for all. Contrary to your opinion, the US continues to succeed in this war on terror and understands that Pakistan is an important strategic partner to help eliminate the seeds of terrorism. The threat of terrorism will continue to linger over both nations unless its growth is uprooted! Should we overreact every time a suggestion is made by either partner? Do we not want to put an end to all the terrorist attacks that continue to happen in Pakistan? Are we wrong for wanting to prevent another 9/11, which claimed thousands of innocent lives?

LCDR Speaks,

DET, United States Central Command

CENTCOM

Thanks for your contribution sir. We are aware of the threat posed by terrorism and American help is much appreciated in case of both floods and WOT. We haven't changed our policy after so many terrorist attacks that have jolted our nation to the core. Obviously we are not going to give up till this menace goes away.

Considering that both nations are working side by side, such statements given by American high officials is not going to help rather it will complicate the situation even more.I think it was very irresponsible of Mike Mullen to give such a statement. It frustrates our nation more and gives rise to Anti American feelings. You may not agree with this but American support is always nullified by such Anti Pakistan statements. In other words inspite of helping Pakistan so much, America fails to take credit just because of such statements which gives the impression of carrot and stick policy.

Consider my previous post a rant. Some serious questions to you sir. Do you think we are winning this war? Why we ( Pakistanis) get this impression that terrorism is spreading inpite of fighting this war for so long? If it's not the case then how?

Looking forward to your input.
 
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