Pakistan Employs China's Beidou Guidance System

[The Deterrent]

this would mean becoming almost totally dependent on China. is that a good strategic move despite Pakistan-China mutual trust? i dont think so.

I know, I was being sarcastic!

 

[[--Leo--]]

I think China has the goal to make Beidou System like Linux, so Pakistan is free to contribute the South Asian part of the Beidou System, just like how Japan contributes the Asia-Pacific part of the US anti-missile defense system.

well every other OS except MS OS are based on linux code coutribute that is not i m talking about

 

[Pulsar]

Simply brilliant news. Read it word by word.

I had been waiting nearly a year for this beautiful news ever since the Beidou system went live last year.

Nice! But remember, an EMP can smother all sat signals and fry the circuits aboard the missile. It is always better to have redundancy in shielded guidance systems on board - GPS as well as pre-programed in-built TERCOM (Terrain Contour Matching) guidance systems.

In an all out nuke war scenario, there would be tremendous amounts of EMP generated by high level nuke bursts which needless to say will be part of the strategy to neutralize all command/control/guidance systems of the adversary. Therefore, redundancy is a must.

 

[Nishan_101]

ISLAMABAD — Access to China’s Beidou satellite guidance system for navigation and precision strike weaponry is welcomed by Pakistani analysts, but guaranteed availability of the Beidou signal cannot be assumed.

“Pakistan’s armed forces cannot rely on US GPS because of its questionable availability during a conflict that has overtones of nuclear escalation,” former Pakistan Air Force pilot Kaiser Tufail said.

“With Pakistani cruise missiles having satellite navigation as an option, it would actually be very naive to believe that US would abet in any such venture,” he said.

The Beidou military signal will be more accurate than available commercial systems.

Mansoor Ahmed from Quaid-e-Azam University’s Department of Defence and Strategic Studies, who specializes in Pakistan’s national deterrent and delivery program, said the Beidou signal is vital for Pakistan’s defense.

“Pakistan is likely to follow a two-pronged strategy aimed at providing redundancies in conflict situations for secure guidance of its cruise missiles,” he said.

“This would call for reliance on Beidou as well as inertial guidance, the latter being used for indigenous cruise missiles like Babur, which can be used for counterforce precision strikes with or without conventional warheads,” he added.

Pakistan’s indigenous cruise missiles, the air-launched Hatf-VIII/Vengeance-VIII Ra’ad, and the surface or sub-surface-launched Hatf-VII Babur, use satellite guidance in addition to inertial navigation and terrain contour mapping.

Some Pakistani ballistic missiles, such as the Shaheen-II, are also claimed to have a satellite guidance option.

Despite its benefits, access to Beidou cannot be fully guaranteed.

Though Tufail believes “China would not outright withdraw [Beidou] at least in the relatively less dangerous early stages of a conflict. … For Pakistan to depend on Chinese satellite guidance systems for weapons delivery [which could be nuclear too] is fraught with uncertainties driven by international concerns.

“Total reliance on the Chinese Beidou satellite positioning system in any conflict would, therefore, also have to be tempered with these stark realities,” he added.

Tufail said Beidou is important mainly with regards to conventional precision strike.

“The very large destruction hemisphere of a nuclear weapon, even a low yield one, mitigates any lack of delivery accuracy of a small order,” he said.

Ahmed, however, believes Beidou will have at least one important part to play regarding Pakistan’s nuclear deterrent.

“Beidou would be particularly effective for a naval Babur that is believed to be the platform for Pakistan’s second-strike capability,” he said.

Its value will mainly be through the accurate positioning of the launch submarine rather than the guidance of the missile itself, because inertial navigation should still be sufficient for a submarine-launched weapon as long as the submarine’s position is accurately determined.

Ahmed does not believe large numbers of conventionally armed variants of the Babur missile will be carried on Pakistani submarines.

For the Navy “Babur primarily fits in with a second strike platform carrying nuclear warheads” he said.

In the South Asian context, the use of precision guided munitions can be hampered, however.

The skies over Pakistan are often obscured by thick fog in winter and dust storms in summer, which complicate accurate weapons delivery.

Tufail, therefore, highlights Beidou as important for aircraft navigation and conventional weapons delivery. Though he thinks Pakistan “must retain options like laser guided weapons, not withstanding their limitations in adverse weather conditions.

“In a 24-hour cycle, there are ample opportunities that can be exploited and these weapons can be useful backups,” he said.

China’s aid to Pakistan’s goes further than Beidou, however. While as Pakistan continues to develop its own precision-guided weaponry, only China can expeditiously deliver such such munitions in volume.

The Stockholm International Policy Research Institute (SIPRI) cites deliveries of the LS-3 and LS-6-500 satellite-guided glide bombs, and the LT-2 LGB in connection with the JF-17 Thunder fighter program as the latest examples.

SIPRI also confirms the acquisition of 50 Chinese CM-400AKG supersonic standoff missiles for the anti-shipping strike role under a 2010 deal. A variant of the missile is believed to also be satellite guided for precision strikes against land targets.

He is inclined to believe the CM-400AKG will remain a specialist anti-aircraft carrier weapon for the time being therefore.

Pakistan Employs China's Beidou Guidance System, but Access Not Guaranteed | Defense News | defensenews.com

I think the best option for now is do a JV like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, UAE, Jordan, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain and may be Kuwait join to do R&D for a Global Positioning System and launch a system of their own and also a combine communication system as well as Surveillance and Intelligence system(SPY) too along with some weather satellites.

 

[Comrade]

Pakistan should develop technological solutions to GPS jammers and GPS availability is questionable in a possible future nuclear or conventional war.
What we can do is conduct more R&D in the fields of atomic clocks, quantum navigation, digital scene-matching guidance(Babur cruise missile already has more then one of these), optical instruments and Laser navigation systems just to name a few.
A fixed or mobile microwave source emitting high burst of EMF on the same GPS frequency from the Rajasthan desert of India can create nightmare scenarios with in 50 to 100 miles of radius for a purely GPS guided missile.
Russia has got one so we can assume India has as well.
Some websites are offering GPS gammers for as low as $45 with free worldwide shipping.
It means its a cheap microwave device and every technical person can create one for less then 3000 Pakistani Ruppees and parts available in Hall road Lahore and DAV college road Rawalpindi.
So you can guess how easy it is to jam GPS and there's no real protection against jamming.
All you need is an easily portable radio transmitter and if you set it up on an elevated location, you can cover a large area, i had created such prototypes while i was studying electronics.
So spoofing and blocking GPS is a child play but remember in a limited area and with a limited range.
If a cruise missile is launched from a sub and from an unknown location in the Arabian sea then there is no way to stop it.
I believe Inertial Navigation Systems is the only best solution for Pakistan because of the very close proximity of Indian targets.
Its an old technology but if combined with digital scene-matching guidance in a powerful computer then its even better then GPS.
(This article is compiled by Tiberia of PDF forum, and i am here with the name Comrade)

 

[iajj]

I think the best option for now is do a JV like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, UAE, Jordan, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain and may be Kuwait join to do R&D for a Global Positioning System and launch a system of their own and also a combine communication system as well as Surveillance and Intelligence system(SPY) too along with some weather satellites.

see, here is where you be wrong: you would think that islam would tie these countries' security together, but a pakistani might think so but an arab and a monarchist would not. they believe their security depends on the good will of angloamericans and jews. moving towards an independent GPS system would **** of the angloamericans and the jews, and these monarchists know that they would lose their protection BEFORE their independent security measures could start to provide them with protection of their thrones. ultimately these arabs and royalists would prefer the safety provided by jews and angloamericans and **** on pakistan's religious sentiment and pakistan's hope for a muslim-operated security system independent of anglosaxon and jew intereference.

 

[Safriz]

this would mean becoming almost totally dependent on China. is that a good strategic move despite Pakistan-China mutual trust? i dont think so.

It is a good idea...Mainly because china is a new player in the already saturated Satellite positioning market..
Big and old players such as American GPS,Russian GLONASS and new European Galileo don't leave much room for Chinese Positioning devices and services..

Pakistan is useful for the chinese as a proving ground for their technology .. Plus they need geographically distributed Satellite tracking centres as all of them cannot be in China. SUPARCO is providing this service as they operate Beidou Uplink and tracking station..
These satellites need to be precisely tracked and Ephemeris data uploaded to the satellites by ground stations at regular intervals and SUPARCO is already providing that service..

So i would say its a Symbiosis rather than total reliance... Plus in any case all defence equipment using Beidou have secondary INS systems ..so if they decide to shut down the signal..our missiles and planes wont be falling from the sky.

 

[airmarshal]

“Pakistan’s armed forces cannot rely on US GPS because of its questionable availability during a conflict that has overtones of nuclear escalation,” former Pakistan Air Force pilot Kaiser Tufail said.


Despite its benefits, access to Beidou cannot be fully guaranteed.

Though Tufail believes “China would not outright withdraw [Beidou] at least in the relatively less dangerous early stages of a conflict. … For Pakistan to depend on Chinese satellite guidance systems for weapons delivery [which could be nuclear too] is fraught with uncertainties driven by international concerns.

“Total reliance on the Chinese Beidou satellite positioning system in any conflict would, therefore, also have to be tempered with these stark realities,” he added.

Great news but my point of concern is total and reliable availability. Pakistan faces challenges in defense. As is highlighted in italics, can Pakistan build its own navigational and guidance system?

 

[The Deterrent]

Pakistan should develop technological solutions to GPS jammers and GPS availability is questionable in a possible future nuclear or conventional war.
What we can do is conduct more R&D in the fields of atomic clocks, quantum navigation, digital scene-matching guidance(Babur cruise missile already has more then one of these), optical instruments and Laser navigation systems just to name a few.
A fixed or mobile microwave source emitting high burst of EMF on the same GPS frequency from the Rajasthan desert of India can create nightmare scenarios with in 50 to 100 miles of radius for a purely GPS guided missile.
Russia has got one so we can assume India has as well.
Some websites are offering GPS gammers for as low as $45 with free worldwide shipping.
It means its a cheap microwave device and every technical person can create one for less then 3000 Pakistani Ruppees and parts available in Hall road Lahore and DAV college road Rawalpindi.
So you can guess how easy it is to jam GPS and there's no real protection against jamming.
All you need is an easily portable radio transmitter and if you set it up on an elevated location, you can cover a large area, i had created such prototypes while i was studying electronics.
So spoofing and blocking GPS is a child play but remember in a limited area and with a limited range.
If a cruise missile is launched from a sub and from an unknown location in the Arabian sea then there is no way to stop it.
I believe Inertial Navigation Systems is the only best solution for Pakistan because of the very close proximity of Indian targets.
Its an old technology but if combined with digital scene-matching guidance in a powerful computer then its even better then GPS.
(This article is compiled by Tiberia of PDF forum, and i am here with the name Comrade)

Pakistan already bases its missiles on INS, and makes use of atomic clocks and stellar guidance. GPS has been introduced quite lately, and is not even operationalized.

Nice analysis

 

[AUz]

Now Pakistan Military can see the movements of entire indian military, indian air force, and indian naval forces..Great!

Our cruise missiles can make use of this tech to target enemy targets deep inside india..Our F-16s and JF-17s can rely on this system for navigation and limited strikes inside indian territory...

 

[surya kiran]

Now Pakistan Military can see the movements of entire indian military, indian air force, and indian naval forces..Great!

Our cruise missiles can make use of this tech to target enemy targets deep inside india..Our F-16s and JF-17s can rely on this system for navigation and limited strikes inside indian territory...

how?

Also f-16s? seriously?????

 

[SQ8]

how?

Also f-16s? seriously?????

No.. and No.
Even with surveillance footage from certain sats there is no way to cover everything.
A combination of SIGINT,HUMINT along with certain assets will allow for more effective observation or rather the "knowing where to look" factor.

The F-16's have NOTHING to do with Beidou nor will they ever.
Beidou's current usage is limited to certain test modules on guidance systems that rely on a mix of GPS-Beidou for positioning and guidance.
It is also been tested on a certain local internet tablets to act similar to the GPS-GLONASS on newer Apple and Samsung offerings.

 

[Safriz]

GPS restricts usage of signal to "above 60,000 feet altitude and at 1,000 knots velocity or greater".
Anything flying higher than that of faster...will not get position fixes by commercially available GPS equipment..Only licensed military equipment can get GPS fix above that altitude of beyond that velocity...
Since Ballistic missiles fly higher and faster than that,GPS is of no use for them...But for cruise missiles GPS is still a viable option.

 

[SBD-3]

Great, let us dump all the F-16s, AMRAAMs & Sidewinders, C-130s, TPS-77s, AH-1s, UH-1s, Bell-412s, M-109s, M-113s, BGM-71 TOWs and all the future foreign military sales deals!

Those are tactical weapons, the point of thread is that Pakistan wants to have options rather than just one GPS.

 

[Devil Soul]

By AFP Published: May 18, 2013
BEIJING: Pakistan is set to become the fifth Asian country to use China’s domestic satellite navigation system which was launched as a rival to the US global positioning system, a report said Saturday.

The Beidou, or Compass, system started providing services to civilians in the region in December and is expected to provide global coverage by 2020. It also has military applications.

Thailand, China, Laos and Brunei already use the Chinese system, which currently consists of 16 operational satellites, with 30 more due to join the system, according to English-language China Daily.

Huang Lei, international business director of BDStar Navigation, which promotes Beidou, told the newspaper the company would build a network of stations in Pakistan to enhance the location accuracy of Beidou.

He said building the network would cost tens of millions of dollars.

American website Defensenews.com reported early May that Pakistani military experts were in favour of using the Chinese system, even though the availability of the signal could not be guaranteed in case of conflict.

But according to one of them, Pakistan cannot place its trust in the United States.

“Pakistan’s armed forces cannot rely on US GPS because of its questionable availability during a conflict that has overtones of nuclear escalation,” former Pakistan Air Force pilot Kaiser Tufail told the site.

Chinese Premier Li Keqiang travels next week to Pakistan, a long time ally, after a visit to India.