Pakistan economic crisis forces shopping malls and markets to close early

[ThunderCat]

Dont like Bangladesh fine. Vietnam was behind Pakistan in the 90s, it is now well ahead. Next Colombia was devastated by insurgency, even they are doing better.

Vietnam I can believe. They don't have even half the number of poor people that Pakistan has. Pakistan's poor are probably more numerous than all of Vietnam's population.

Their population growth is also much more steady since they have a tropical climate. Tropical climates regulate population size, but that's another discussion.

As for Columbia, I'd argue that every Latin American country outclasses Pakistan in terms of living conditions and have done so for decades.

Their populations are much smaller and sustainable. Their growth is minimal. Their economies- larger or smaller- are more sustainable and that's exactly what I want for Pakistan.

Even Sri Lanka has a far more prosperous future than Pakistan and has been South Asia's most developed country in terms of living conditions. This is despite their science & tech being behind Pakistan's and post secondary education being somewhat slightly inferior.

But don't ask me to compare Columbia, Sri Lanka or even Vietnam to a sh**thole like Bangladesh. No offense to Bangladeshi people.

 

[leonblack08]

But don't ask me to compare Columbia, Sri Lanka or even Vietnam to a sh**thole like Bangladesh. No offense to Bangladeshi people.

Oh but you did intend to offend Bangladeshi people. Now don't try to be ingenuous.

Your grasp of economics is questionable, since you have been repeatedly claiming Bangladesh to be a shytehole. I won't even bother going into a discussion with you.

It's people like you are the reason we had to split in 1971 and now you are in this political and economic mess. Your mentality towards Bangladeshis are as clear as daylight.

 

[ThunderCat]

Oh but you did intend to offend Bangladeshi people. Now don't try to be ingenuous.

Your grasp of economics is questionable, since you have been repeatedly claiming Bangladesh to be a shytehole. I won't even bother going into a discussion with you.

It's people like you are the reason we had to split in 1971 and now you are in this political and economic mess. Your mentality towards Bangladeshis are as clear as daylight.

There's nothing factually incorrect about the info I posted. When i wrote Bangladesh is a gutter is simply what i believe about the country's filthyness and living conditions.

I don't hate Bangladeshi people or anything, aside from the over-enthusatic nationalistic ones and their false narratives. But do I want my country to become like yours? No thanks!

 

[Sliver]

@ThunderCat
what metrics (or logic) can you give that shows Pakistan is ahead of BD or India right now?
I will use those at some other places. can you kindly share?

There's nothing factually incorrect about the info I posted. When i wrote Bangladesh is a gutter is simply what i believe about the country's filthyness and living conditions.

I don't hate Bangladeshi people or anything, aside from the over-enthusatic nationlaistic ones and their false narratives. But do I want my country to become like yours? No thanks!

"nothing factually incorrect"
"its simply what I believe"

just because you believe something, doesnt make it a fact.
Your entire argument of BD being a filthyplace is based on "its simply what I believe"?

 

[ThunderCat]

@ThunderCat
what metrics (or logic) can you give that shows Pakistan is ahead of BD or India right now?
I will use those at some other places. can you kindly share?

Population density. Less poor people. Less pollution. For example am I suppossed to believe more than 700 million Swedes defecate in the open since India has a higher GDP than Sweden; therefore "richer?"

Better post secondary education. I remember seeing a news report on Pakistani students stranded in bangladesh because of COVID. The Indians & Bangladeshis were mocking it, arguing now Pakistanis are studying in Bangladesh. It was then that a Pakistani responded pointing out that this was a funded program. Pakistan has more universities up to world standards than Bangladesh.

I don't necessarily care about GDP size. That comes later. We can see plenty of countries with smaller GDPs outclass countries with larger ones.

I care about a stable and steady economy. One that grows & declines at steady rates and remains sustainable.

 

[leonblack08]

There's nothing factually incorrect about the info I posted. When i wrote Bangladesh is a gutter is simply what i believe about the country's filthyness and living conditions.

I don't hate Bangladeshi people or anything, aside from the over-enthusatic nationlaistic ones and their false narratives. But do I want my country to become like yours? No thanks!

The fact that you are considering total GDP of one country against another to measure their development is absolutely hilarious. You just blindly posted data without understanding how it works and how comparisons are to be done. You also conveniently ignored human development measure that other members tried to point out to you.

As for Bangladesh being a gutter and Bangladeshi living conditions - I can cherry pick pictures of Karachi and say that entire Pakistan is a gutter and by your logic it would stand true.

Bottomline - you are just cherry picking to whatever suits your narrative. I won't waste more of my time in arguments with you.

 

[TheSolution]

Vietnam I can believe. They don't have even half the number of poor people that Pakistan has. Pakistan's poor are probably more numerous than all of Vietnam's population.

Their population growth is also much more steady since they have a tropical climate. Tropical climates regulate population size, but that's another discussion.

As for Columbia, I'd argue that every Latin American country outclasses Pakistan in terms of living conditions and have done so for decades.

Their populations are much smaller and sustainable. Their growth is minimal. Their economies- larger or smaller- are more sustainable and that's exactly what I want for Pakistan.

Even Sri Lanka has a far more prosperous future than Pakistan and has been South Asia's most developed country in terms of living conditions. This is despite their science & tech being behind Pakistan's and post secondary education being somewhat slightly inferior.

But don't ask me to compare Columbia, Sri Lanka or even Vietnam to a sh**thole like Bangladesh. No offense to Bangladeshi people.

What metrics are you comparing between Pakistan and Bangladesh to believe Bangladesh is so bad in comparison?

 

[ThunderCat]

The fact that you are considering total GDP of one country against another to measure their development is absolutely hilarious. You just blindly posted data without understanding how it works and how comparisons are to be done. You also conveniently ignore human development measure that other members tried to point out to you.

LOL isn't that what advocates of Bangladesh being "better" just did? So it's okay when you and they do it, but not when I do it? Nice "reasoning."

 

[leonblack08]

LOL isn't that what advocates of Bangladesh being "better" just did? So it's okay when they do it, but not when I do it. Nice "reasoning."

Economics 101 - GDP per Capita, GDP PPP (Purchasing Power Parity). That's how you compare two country's economic development. Not total GDP.

I thought Pakistan has world class universities. We learn these in middle school in Bangladesh.

 

[epebble]

Isn't he says, she says exactly what you're doing? Using urban myths to deceive. Using some cherry-picked stats to draw a false illusion. What you are doing is engaging in fallacious arguing.

You are making the fallacy of statistics and fallacy of selective information. Yes Pakistan is far from clean, but that's only half the truth. The truth is it is a far cleaner and developed country than Bangladesh.

This is the fallacy of selective information.

Statistics don't necessarily tell everything. Especially when they are cherry-picked. Bangladesh having a larger GDP does not necessarily mean it's more developed than Pakistan.

Let's for example use that argument and compare it to New Zealand and we can see a significant difference: https://georank.org/economy/bangladesh/new-zealand

Now according to you, Bangladesh is now a "more developed country" than New Zealand. Such a shame for New Zealand, isn't it? However the truth is far from that. Quite the polar opposite.

New Zealand outclasses Bangladesh in just about every basic field. Don't compare a filthy gutter like Bangladesh to the island of paradise of New Zealand.

Might want to look up logical fallacies before using them as weapons. Here is a quote to help you:

"The word "fallacy" comes from the Latin "fallacia" which means "deception, deceit, trick, artifice," however, a more specific meaning in logic (a logical fallacy) that dates back to the 1550s means "false syllogism, invalid argumentation." A logical fallacy as a concept within argumentation that commonly leads to an error in reasoning due to the deceptive nature of its presentation. Logical fallacies can comprise fallacious arguments that contain one or more non-factual errors in their form or deceptive arguments that often lead to fallacious reasoning in their evaluation."

You should use this line:

GDP per capita	$1.7k	$42k

and not national GDP since populations are vastly different. on per capita GDP, NZ is more than 24 times better off.

@ThunderCat
what metrics (or logic) can you give that shows Pakistan is ahead of BD or India right now?
I will use those at some other places. can you kindly share?


"nothing factually incorrect"
"its simply what I believe"

just because you believe something, doesnt make it a fact.
Your entire argument of BD being a filthyplace is based on "its simply what I believe"?

He is using national GDP figures to make irrational arguments. Any sensible comparison should use per capita GDP or better still per capita GDP based on PPP (Purchasing Power Parity).

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita
Country/Territory UN Region IMF World Bank United Nations
Estimate Year Estimate Year Estimate Year

Bhutan *

Asia

3,562

2022

3,001

2020

3,218

2020

Sri Lanka *

Asia

3,293

2022

3,815

2021

3,768

2020

Bangladesh *

Asia

2,734

2022

2,503

2021

2,001

2020

India *

Asia

2,466

2022

2,277

2021

1,931

2020

Pakistan *

Asia

1,658

2022

1,538

2021

1,167

2020

Nepal *

Asia

1,293

2022

1,223

2021

1,135

2020

Myanmar *

Asia

1,105

2022

1,187

2021

1,292

2020

By PPP, It is: (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita )

Sri Lanka *

Asia

14,230

2022

14,127

2021

12,500

2020

Bhutan *

Asia

13,077

2022

11,129

2020

10,900

2020

India *

Asia

8,293

2022

7,334

2021

6,100

2020

Bangladesh *

Asia

7,985

2022

6,613

2021

4,800

2020

Pakistan *

Asia

6,662

2022

5,878

2021

4,600

2020

Myanmar *

Asia

4,830

2022

4,345

2021

4,500

2020

Nepal *

Asia

4,677

2022

4,261

2021

3,800

2020

 

[ThunderCat]

just because you believe something, doesnt make it a fact.
Your entire argument of BD being a filthyplace is based on "its simply what I believe"?

Right because I painted these pics:
https://i.insider.com/59ea39f9ddd0631c008b616f?width=1200

http://userscontent2.emaze.com/imag...4a33/794b1caf-37e1-48c2-abc9-772efd6c6d63.jpg

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/12Y...d_river_bangladesh_GettyImages_1127067807.jpg

 

[ThunderCat]

"You should use this line:

GDP per capita	$1.7k	$42k

and not national GDP since populations are vastly different. on per capita GDP, NZ is more than 24 times better off."

Yeah except the argument was thrown at me using national GDPs but then repeatedly dismissed when I did the same. Also looking at the same stats comparing New Zealand & Bangladesh, it showed a higher unemployment rate for New Zealand than Bangladesh and a higher rate of growing income per capita by 5% for Bangladesh. I'll check again to verify in case I could be wrong.

I don't believe that anytime in my lifetime- if ever- that Bangladesh will ever rival New Zealand in terms of living conditions including environmental prosperity.

 

[ThunderCat]

Economics 101 - GDP per Capita, GDP PPP (Purchasing Power Parity). That's how you compare two country's economic development. Not total GDP.

I thought Pakistan has world class universities. We learn these in middle school in Bangladesh.

Well national GDP has been used to compare the two countries repeatedly, now that I refuted that, the goal post has been moved to comparing income per capita. Both these are stats somewhat shady. The HDI have been sourced to the Bangladeshi government. Given the level of malnutrition, population density, pollution, I'd really question those HDI figures.

It was the Bangladeshi government that posted stats claiming that 12% of Bangladeshis live below the poverty line. Al-Jazeera's report claimed it to be 20% that's a whole 8% off. I'd probably argue it's even more than that, but the point is I don't trust shady stats.

The Bangladeshi government also claimed the population to be 140 million which was in contrast to foreign figures claiming it to be 165 million. That's a whole 25 million people missed! Especially in a country of that density! So should i still trust such shady stats?

So you learned all this in middle school in Bangladesh? Are these the same middle schools that teach Bangladesh will become an Asian Tiger like Singapore? Because exactly that's what i've seen your people claiming.

Take a good hard look. Do you even think the ghettos of Singapore could compare the condition your country is in right now despite a growing economy:

 

[leonblack08]

Well national GDP has been used to compare the two countries repeatedly, now that I refuted that, the goal post has been moved to comparing income per capita. Both these are stats somewhat shady. The HDI have been sourced to the Bangladeshi government. Given the level of malnutrition, population density, pollution, I'd really question those HDI figures.

It was the Bangladeshi government that posted stats claiming that 12% of Bangladeshis live below the poverty line. Al-Jazeera's report claimed it to be 20% that's a whole 8% off. I'd probably argue it's even more than that, but the point is I don't trust such stats.

The Bangladeshi government also claimed the population to be 140 million which was in contrast to foreign figures claiming it to be 165 million. That's a whole 25 million people missed! Especially in a country of that density! So should i trust shady stats?

So you learned all this in middle school in Bangladesh? Are these the same middle schools that teach Bangladesh will become an Asian Tiger like Singapore. Because exactly that's what i've seen your people claiming.

Take a good hard look. Do you even think the ghettos of Singapore could compare the condition your country is in right now despite a growing economy:

This is the original post which hurt your over inflated ego and which prompted you calling Bangladesh a "sh*thole". I don't see mention of any GDP there. So I am not sure what you are talking about. Just admit you learned something new about economics today that you had no clue about.

As for the rest of your rant - you can go check World bank data. You can raise it up with them if you think it is shady.

World Bank Open Data

Free and open access to global development data

data.worldbank.org

Also - I can also google search picture of "Pakistan Slum Dirty" and come up with thousands of pictures. But I don't intend to stoop to your low level.

 

[Sliver]

@ThunderCat you really think such pictures of Pakistani cities/slums do not exist?
also
you still havent given me a metric by which you are comparing Pakistan, BD and India

please let me know so I can use it in other places.