Pakistan Domestic 155 mm artillery gun is under test and trial : HIT

[KaiserX]

No turkish Howitzers were produced or are in service by the PA. the MKEK PANTER was tested but no sales were made.

The order for AK-1s was of 220 and was placed in 2017. Of those about 2 regiments have been delivered. HITs max production capacity is 50 tanks per year On the AK production line (keep in mind there’s many other production lines for other products).

We have not much indication of it being an SP yet, however it is possible that it will be both towed and SP, it makes much more sense economically.

But also keep in mind that PA is testing several SP artillery systems from other countries at the moment as well.

Ill stop you right there... Pakistan produced 72+ Turkish Panters under license, up until 2013. I doubt pakistan needed more towed howitzers when we were inducting hundreds of M117 self propelled units.

Panter howitzer - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Turkey - Cobra Wheeled Armored Vehicle

www.globalsecurity.org

I can get into the topic of HIT and the AKs productions capacity but to keep it in simplist terms you are correct and incorrect lol

HIT has the MAX production capacity of producing 100 AKs per year. Due to mismanagement this figure never really reached above 60 units per year. Even in 2005 HIT was producing 45-60 AKs per year...

Al Khalid MBT-2000 / Type 2000 Main Battle Tank

GlobalSecurity.org is the leading source for reliable military news and military information, directed by John Pike

www.globalsecurity.org

This is true for anything you manufacter. For example if a build a plant to manufacter 100,000 footballs a year, very rarely will I actually manufacter 100k footballs. Instead even if I reach 70-75% on average that is considered great.

Eventually due to even more significant mismanagement during the PPPs term. With production reaching a low of 18 units being produced at one point until 2017....

HIT has started production of Al-Khalid 2 tanks, Senate body told | Pakistan Today

archive.pakistantoday.com.pk

The last article highlights that HIT has a capacity of producing 50 units on average. If investment is made is expanding the facility and importing more advanced machinery say from turkey/china then a 200 milliion USD investment in HIT would go a long long way in producing more/better tanks, APCs, howitzers, etc...

Things have gotten better. In the last few years many upgrades were made to HIT and production is back to the 45-60 unit level. For a country the size of Pakistan we should double this figure to 90-120 units using a variety of manufactering production processes methods such as maybe 24/7 round the clock shifts/etc...

We do not know the nitty gritty details of all this... how many hours a day is production running? can we make this 24/7? if so do we need to increase capacity of electricity/water to HITs plants? do we need better/more accomadation for workers? etc ...

Some of this is investment while other is creating a better process/management.

 

[DJ_Viper]

LOL, you are so full of yourself, in layman's terms its called being full of shit.

I assume this was for me. This was your best shot to my post? Insults.....? I'd have appreciated some sensible context a lot more.

 

[KaiserX]

I seriously think HIT should prioritize the develpment of a 42-43T tank in the weight class as the T72... maybe a scaled down AK, or upgraded Al-zarrar.

Pakistan itself has a requirement for around 300 tanks, while the export potential to markets in Africa, Bangladesh, Iraq, South America are immense.

I could easily see Nigeria, Algeria, Morrocco, Sri Lanka ordering hundreds.

 

[ziaulislam]

LOL, you are so full of yourself, in layman's terms its called being full of shit.

Since you just have a suzuki mehran and not a bugati in your garage it must be incometence of your father, right?

Yes, if your maternal mortality rate is highest in the world and ypur hospitals including MILITARY hospitals have suboptimal equipmemt lacking simple CTs(with outsourcing to private people for comissions) if you cant buy a MRAP but can afford BMWs then yes its incompetence

 

[Irfan Baloch]

please stick to topic.take MRAP discussion to a new thread

its about our new towed artillery piece.
towed pieces are cost effective. less complex, easy to conceal with same firepower without much mobility compromise.

have you ever seen a transportation, deployment fire and move demo of artillery? it is done in minutes.

if they need to be mobile the artillery can do that and move out the towed pieces before retaliation.

 

[Thorough Pro]

how many people pay taxes

Yes, if your maternal mortality rate is highest in the world and ypur hospitals including MILITARY hospitals have suboptimal equipmemt lacking simple CTs(with outsourcing to private people for comissions) if you cant buy a MRAP but can afford BMWs then yes its incompetence

 

[ziaulislam]

how many people pay taxes

Its not about taxes alone..its about we spend money..both are off..spending is way off
Will indigenous gun mean that all 155mm procurement will be off

Also did we ever inducted turkish 155mm towed gun?

 

[Thorough Pro]

you are going on different tangents here, it's all about finances that comes from taxes. A country finances run just like a home finances, that's why I gave the Bugatti example. No country including US has limitless resources, every government prioritizes where to spend, but you can't understand simple things.

Its not about taxes alone..its about we spend money..both are off..spending is way off
Will indigenous gun mean that all 155mm procurement will be off

Also did we ever inducted turkish 155mm towed gun?

 

[The Accountant]

They need to automate the process. These sorts of medieval process is frankly embarrassing @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Automation can only be done in voulmetric products.

U know ferrari and bugati are the least automated production lines.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Ill stop you right there... Pakistan produced 72+ Turkish Panters under license, up until 2013. I doubt pakistan needed more towed howitzers when we were inducting hundreds of M117 self propelled units.

Panter howitzer - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Turkey - Cobra Wheeled Armored Vehicle

www.globalsecurity.org

I can get into the topic of HIT and the AKs productions capacity but to keep it in simplist terms you are correct and incorrect lol

HIT has the MAX production capacity of producing 100 AKs per year. Due to mismanagement this figure never really reached above 60 units per year. Even in 2005 HIT was producing 45-60 AKs per year...

Al Khalid MBT-2000 / Type 2000 Main Battle Tank

GlobalSecurity.org is the leading source for reliable military news and military information, directed by John Pike

www.globalsecurity.org

This is true for anything you manufacter. For example if a build a plant to manufacter 100,000 footballs a year, very rarely will I actually manufacter 100k footballs. Instead even if I reach 70-75% on average that is considered great.

Eventually due to even more significant mismanagement during the PPPs term. With production reaching a low of 18 units being produced at one point until 2017....

HIT has started production of Al-Khalid 2 tanks, Senate body told | Pakistan Today

archive.pakistantoday.com.pk

The last article highlights that HIT has a capacity of producing 50 units on average. If investment is made is expanding the facility and importing more advanced machinery say from turkey/china then a 200 milliion USD investment in HIT would go a long long way in producing more/better tanks, APCs, howitzers, etc...

Things have gotten better. In the last few years many upgrades were made to HIT and production is back to the 45-60 unit level. For a country the size of Pakistan we should double this figure to 90-120 units using a variety of manufactering production processes methods such as maybe 24/7 round the clock shifts/etc...

We do not know the nitty gritty details of all this... how many hours a day is production running? can we make this 24/7? if so do we need to increase capacity of electricity/water to HITs plants? do we need better/more accomadation for workers? etc ...

Some of this is investment while other is creating a better process/management.

No need to stop me anywhere, Pakistan army does NOT have Panther in service and NO Panter was produced in Pakistan, it is incorrect news. Many people and newer articles have claimed it and It’s been discussed to death many times, but it definitely never happened. The only Panter in Pakistan is rusting outside the gunnery school in Nowshera, had the opportunity to visit this sad site as well.
Kindly confirm your information before posting.

Ill stop you right there... Pakistan produced 72+ Turkish Panters under license, up until 2013. I doubt pakistan needed more towed howitzers when we were inducting hundreds of M117 self propelled units.

Panter howitzer - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Turkey - Cobra Wheeled Armored Vehicle

www.globalsecurity.org

I can get into the topic of HIT and the AKs productions capacity but to keep it in simplist terms you are correct and incorrect lol

HIT has the MAX production capacity of producing 100 AKs per year. Due to mismanagement this figure never really reached above 60 units per year. Even in 2005 HIT was producing 45-60 AKs per year...

Al Khalid MBT-2000 / Type 2000 Main Battle Tank

GlobalSecurity.org is the leading source for reliable military news and military information, directed by John Pike

www.globalsecurity.org

This is true for anything you manufacter. For example if a build a plant to manufacter 100,000 footballs a year, very rarely will I actually manufacter 100k footballs. Instead even if I reach 70-75% on average that is considered great.

Eventually due to even more significant mismanagement during the PPPs term. With production reaching a low of 18 units being produced at one point until 2017....

HIT has started production of Al-Khalid 2 tanks, Senate body told | Pakistan Today

archive.pakistantoday.com.pk

The last article highlights that HIT has a capacity of producing 50 units on average. If investment is made is expanding the facility and importing more advanced machinery say from turkey/china then a 200 milliion USD investment in HIT would go a long long way in producing more/better tanks, APCs, howitzers, etc...

Things have gotten better. In the last few years many upgrades were made to HIT and production is back to the 45-60 unit level. For a country the size of Pakistan we should double this figure to 90-120 units using a variety of manufactering production processes methods such as maybe 24/7 round the clock shifts/etc...

We do not know the nitty gritty details of all this... how many hours a day is production running? can we make this 24/7? if so do we need to increase capacity of electricity/water to HITs plants? do we need better/more accomadation for workers? etc ...

Some of this is investment while other is creating a better process/management.

No. HIT has a maximum production capacity of 50 tanks a year on the Al-Khalid line, I’ve visited the line many times, you can’t just say double the capacity without any expansion work being done on the line (however a lot of work has been done modernizing it and making it more efficient)

Plus this isn’t some random claim, the Chairman of Defense production himself confirmed this in the Pakistani national assembly during a meeting, that the max capacity is 50 but the factory has been running at 10-20 tanks for years now. What is this “average capacity“ if the factory has always been making under 20 tanks a year? Also you can go look at MoDP year books. A production of over 50 has never been hit.

The most recent delivery was something like 35 and hopefully next year it’ll hit 50. Yes it can be expanded, other lines can be reconfigured to produce AKs as well, but there is absolutely no proof that this production line can make 100 tanks And I’ll stand by that, though if there is some proof to present of the line being capable of hundred tanks a year (maybe by increasing the working hours and parts delivery during wartime 50+ can be achieved, but doubling it sounds a little difficult) then please do show, I’d happily be proven wrong in this case.

 

[iLION12345_1]

I seriously think HIT should prioritize the develpment of a 42-43T tank in the weight class as the T72... maybe a scaled down AK, or upgraded Al-zarrar.

Pakistan itself has a requirement for around 300 tanks, while the export potential to markets in Africa, Bangladesh, Iraq, South America are immense.

I could easily see Nigeria, Algeria, Morrocco, Sri Lanka ordering hundreds.

PA has no need for such a tank.

Ill stop you right there... Pakistan produced 72+ Turkish Panters under license, up until 2013. I doubt pakistan needed more towed howitzers when we were inducting hundreds of M117 self propelled units.

Panter howitzer - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Turkey - Cobra Wheeled Armored Vehicle

www.globalsecurity.org

I can get into the topic of HIT and the AKs productions capacity but to keep it in simplist terms you are correct and incorrect lol

HIT has the MAX production capacity of producing 100 AKs per year. Due to mismanagement this figure never really reached above 60 units per year. Even in 2005 HIT was producing 45-60 AKs per year...

Al Khalid MBT-2000 / Type 2000 Main Battle Tank

GlobalSecurity.org is the leading source for reliable military news and military information, directed by John Pike

www.globalsecurity.org

This is true for anything you manufacter. For example if a build a plant to manufacter 100,000 footballs a year, very rarely will I actually manufacter 100k footballs. Instead even if I reach 70-75% on average that is considered great.

Eventually due to even more significant mismanagement during the PPPs term. With production reaching a low of 18 units being produced at one point until 2017....

HIT has started production of Al-Khalid 2 tanks, Senate body told | Pakistan Today

archive.pakistantoday.com.pk

The last article highlights that HIT has a capacity of producing 50 units on average. If investment is made is expanding the facility and importing more advanced machinery say from turkey/china then a 200 milliion USD investment in HIT would go a long long way in producing more/better tanks, APCs, howitzers, etc...

Things have gotten better. In the last few years many upgrades were made to HIT and production is back to the 45-60 unit level. For a country the size of Pakistan we should double this figure to 90-120 units using a variety of manufactering production processes methods such as maybe 24/7 round the clock shifts/etc...

We do not know the nitty gritty details of all this... how many hours a day is production running? can we make this 24/7? if so do we need to increase capacity of electricity/water to HITs plants? do we need better/more accomadation for workers? etc ...

Some of this is investment while other is creating a better process/management.

What do you mean Pakistan doesn’t need more towed howitzers because it inducted “hundreds” of M117?

Firstly, go check how many M117 PA actually has. Secondly, check the age of those guns, thirdly, check the number of Towed guns and their modernization projects in Indian service. Pakistans Towed artillery force is nearly a token force compared to what India fields And is in much more need of expansions and modernization than PAs SP force.

On the other hand PA has about 3x more SPs than Indian army and is already testing several more models to increase this gap even further. PA is going to modernize both towed and SP artillery, but to me this certainly looks like a towed artillery project which may turn into an SP if PA desires and asks HIT, otherwise PA will be going for one of the foreign SPs it’s testing.

 

[ziaulislam]

PA has no need for such a tank.

What do you mean Pakistan doesn’t need more towed howitzers because it inducted “hundreds” of M117?

Firstly, go check how many M117 PA actually has. Secondly, check the age of those guns, thirdly, check the number of Towed guns and their modernization projects in Indian service. Pakistans Towed artillery force is nearly a token force compared to what India fields And is in much more need of expansions and modernization than PAs SP force.

On the other hand PA has about 3x more SPs than Indian army and is already testing several more models to increase this gap even further. PA is going to modernize both towed and SP artillery, but to me this certainly looks like a towed artillery project which may turn into an SP if PA desires and asks HIT, otherwise PA will be going for one of the foreign SPs it’s testing.

I am not an expert but isnt the gun the main issue here..
If PA is satisfied with 155mm gun, then should use same gun to build a SP version
Since we have procured decent amount of SP guns for short term anyway

 

[mwaraitch]

Indegious production in army related stuff except that of POFs, has been more of a story of woes than that of success. The needed continution and will at leadership and planning level is critically lacking.

 

[iLION12345_1]

I am not an expert but isnt the gun the main issue here..
If PA is satisfied with 155mm gun, then should use same gun to build a SP version
Since we have procured decent amount of SP guns for short term anyway

If only it were that easy, we don’t know the results of the trials yet, but the gun can very certainly be the issue. The last time HIT made 155mm artillery barrels they weren’t as good as they needed to be. And then designing a good SP on top of that which meets all of PAs rather stringent requirements can be a bit difficult, however if PA likes the gun they should certainly ask HIT to try and make it into an SP too it’s not that HIT cannot do it, it’s just that it won’t be easy. PA has a need for both a modern SP and a modern towed piece.

Its not about taxes alone..its about we spend money..both are off..spending is way off
Will indigenous gun mean that all 155mm procurement will be off

Also did we ever inducted turkish 155mm towed gun?

Only if the indigenous gun gets picked by the army. Otherwise no they’ll keep going for foreign offers, it could be that they ask HIT to improve the flaws in it (if they find any) and try it again.

And no, turkish howitzers were not Inducted.

 

[Zarvan]

I am actually trying to figure it out that why all of a sudden HIT invited media and did a press conference ?