Pakistan demands apology over drone strike

[LeGenD]

Yes to the first question -under Daud an Afghan Lashkar was sent to try and occupy parts of FATA, and attempts were also made to stoke separatist rebellions in FATA - both failed. During the times of Soviet influence in Afghanistan, Khad/KGB also carried out numerous terrorist attacks in Pakistani cities.

When such moves failed than why so much hooplah about it? We need to focus on present and future. Past should be treated like Past.

As per international sources, a PAF strike inside Afghan territory led to increase in hostilities between Pakistan and Afghanistan. How conveniently you forgot to cite this example? Double standards?

It does not have to be fenced, the Afghans have to simply abide by the Durand Agreement signed by their rulers and accept Pakistani sovereignty over the areas governed by Pakistan currently.

And why not? If our enemies from the other side of border are not willing to respect Durand Agreement, we should adopt additional security measures.

Fencing it will help in monitoring of cross-border activities and combating drug trafficking.

Again, fencing is not the issue - acceptance of Pakistani sovereignty and abiding by an international agreement is.

See above.

The use of Afghanistan to destabilize Pakistan, and the impact of a civil war in Afghanistan on Pakistan (millions of refugees etc.) justifies our intervention in Afghanistan.

And we are not helping Afghan people with our intervention. We supported Taliban against Northern Alliance. The present government contains elements of that Alliance. They are now venting out their anger by reciprocating?

See? It is easy to blame others for all the ill things.

Continue to meddle and see its results now.

Much larger states, different dynamics.

Or better strategic ambitions, which do not have long term after-effects on both sides?

The Taliban in fact did offer to shift OBL to a neutral country to be brought to trial. It was a very reasonable proposal - the US refused to consider it.

You don't dictate your terms to the sole superpower, when it is threatening to attack. Common sense.

So long as Pakistan is not threatened by Afghanistan, I fail to see what the issue is with his views.

Pakistan will not be threatened by Afghanistan if we would stop meddling in its affairs in the manner we did. Maybe! You have no clue about sheer level of resentment in Afghanistan against Pakistani people yet?

I understand that a stable and non-hostile Afghanistan is in our interests. We should adopt a strategy which ensures this goal. By supporting certain extremist outfits in Afghanistan, we are not doing that nation a justice.

Think about yourself being ruled by a 'gang of extremists' supported by India for a moment. You would really want this?

Now is the time to amend our past mistakes.

He is sheltering Baluch terrorists, there cannot be any more damning evidence than the embassy cables - Musharraf was screaming this for years, to the world and to the US. And the Americans would have us believe that the first they heard of it was in a 'chat with Karzai'. The guy is being sheltered under their noses in Kabul, we are telling the Yanks where he is, and they claim that this is the first they knew of it. Utter BS and lies.

Musharraf's policies against Bugti contributed to this menance. Balochi strongly resent this man.

As I have said before, we need to put our own house in order first. Injustices to people will lead to these kinds of upheavels.

The US and Karzai are clearly in cahoots in sheltering Baluch terrorists, and I see no reason why Pakistan should trust either of them.

And the history before that? Why we always try to look at just one side of the coin?

Pakistan is in dire need of a strong foreign representation. I stated this several times. Through a strong foreign representation, we can exert our influence in these kinds of affairs.

It is the job of Pakistani admininstration to convince Karzai to hand over those wanted elements to us.

Great - if they do accomplish what they are setting out to do, there will be no civil war, and 'Plan B or Plan C' will never be put to use.

Do keep in mind the 'not yet revealed' 'Plan B' and 'Plan C' of US in response.

We have learnt our lesson and we are pursuing a different strategy that incorporates engagement with the various power centers in Afghanistan.

By covertly supporting Afghan groups, which are anti-ISAF and anti-Karzai? Good strategy it is. And then we complain about Drone attacks on our soil.

We can't have it both ways, brother.

In due time - I don't see the US/Afghanistan handing over a known terrorist leaders being sheltered in Kabul to Pakistan anytime soon, nor do I see the US taking any sort of military action to eliminate the Taliban groups led by Qari Zia-ur-Rehman and Mullah Fazlullah hiding in Eastern Afghanistan and carrying out attacks in Bajaur and Mohmand.

Where is the pressure on the US to eliminate threats to Pakistan from terrorists?

Where is the condemnation of the US for sheltering terrorists in Afghanistan?

The mess we find ourselves in is due to our COLD WAR era policies. When you become a party to US games; you suffer.

We have yet to learn our lesson. The blatant attempts to defend or overshadow wrong doings of Pakistani military establish (like you are doing here) will lead to more resentment among Pakistani civilians, who are suffering because of such policies. At maximum, military establishment and its supporters should try to admit their mistakes and come clean on present ground realities.

China and India are smarter nations. They have learned valuable lessons from their PAST experiences and are now making good progress. In the coming years, the world will listen to them.

 

[mughaljee]

demands Apology ?
D R A M A

 

[Abu Basit]

oh damn. same can be said about the victims of the suicide bombings who are mostly innocent ppl. u wanna tell those mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters who have lost their loved ones "dont blame the suicide bomber for killing your son, brother, sister, father, mother, uncle, garanparent, cousin" ?

Millions of ppl around the world have lost their loved ones. should they go on suicide bombing sprees? what about the families of the victims who have been killed by these suicide bombers? should they go on suicide bombing sprees and kill more innocent ppl?

Pakistan army is responsible for all killed in suicide bombings, it's their policies which is creating reaction.

 

[Riz]

never heard a singal word regarding pakistani protest from the us authorties because blood of pakistani people is worthless for them, and also they are paying us in advance

 

[Abu Basit]

It’s business as usual for US drones

PESHAWAR: The strong protest lodged with the US by the government and the military against drone attacks woot have apparently fallen on deaf ears as unmanned aircraft continued to fly over North Waziristan Agency on Saturday.

Five to eight drones were seen flying at high altitude over different areas of the region where an unmanned aircraft attacked a tribal jirga on Thursday, killing 45 civilians.

Islamabad lodged a protest with Washington on Friday and announced withdrawal from the coming trilateral ministerial meeting on the Afghan issue.

People in Miramshah, the administrative headquarters of North Waziristan, said that drones, locally known as “Bungara”, hovered over the agency throughout the day.

“This is now a routine matter. People here can spot Bungara in the sky very easily,” said a resident of Miramshah.

Some foreign news outlets reported on Saturday that Pakistan Air Force (PAF) had been put on high alert after Thursday’s deadly drone attack. However, a PAF spokesman, Air Commodore Tariq Qamar Yazdanie, denied such reports.—Bureau

http://www.dawn.com/2011/03/20/its-busines...-us-drones.html

 

[Vinod2070]

When such moves failed than why so much hooplah about it? We need to focus on present and future. Past should be treated like Past.

As per international sources, a PAF strike inside Afghan territory led to increase in hostilities between Pakistan and Afghanistan. How conveniently you forgot to cite this example? Double standards?


And why not? If our enemies from the other side of border are not willing to respect Durand Agreement, we should adopt additional security measures.

Fencing it will help in monitoring of cross-border activities and combating drug trafficking.


See above.


And we are not helping Afghan people with our intervention. We supported Taliban against Northern Alliance. The present government contains elements of that Alliance. They are now venting out their anger by reciprocating?

See? It is easy to blame others for all the ill things.

Continue to meddle and see its results now.


Or better strategic ambitions, which do not have long term after-effects on both sides?


You don't dictate your terms to the sole superpower, when it is threatening to attack. Common sense.


Pakistan will not be threatened by Afghanistan if we would stop meddling in its affairs in the manner we did. Maybe! You have no clue about sheer level of resentment in Afghanistan against Pakistani people yet?

I understand that a stable and non-hostile Afghanistan is in our interests. We should adopt a strategy which ensures this goal. By supporting certain extremist outfits in Afghanistan, we are not doing that nation a justice.

Think about yourself being ruled by a 'gang of extremists' supported by India for a moment. You would really want this?

Now is the time to amend our past mistakes.


Musharraf's policies against Bugti contributed to this menance. Balochi strongly resent this man.

As I have said before, we need to put our own house in order first. Injustices to people will lead to these kinds of upheavels.


And the history before that? Why we always try to look at just one side of the coin?

Pakistan is in dire need of a strong foreign representation. I stated this several times. Through a strong foreign representation, we can exert our influence in these kinds of affairs.

It is the job of Pakistani admininstration to convince Karzai to hand over those wanted elements to us.


Do keep in mind the 'not yet revealed' 'Plan B' and 'Plan C' of US in response.


By covertly supporting Afghan groups, which are anti-ISAF and anti-Karzai? Good strategy it is. And then we complain about Drone attacks on our soil.

We can't have it both ways, brother.


The mess we find ourselves in is due to our COLD WAR era policies. When you become a party to US games; you suffer.

We have yet to learn our lesson. The blatant attempts to defend or overshadow wrong doings of Pakistani military establish (like you are doing here) will lead to more resentment among Pakistani civilians, who are suffering because of such policies. At maximum, military establishment and its supporters should try to admit their mistakes and come clean on present ground realities.

China and India are smarter nations. They have learned valuable lessons from their PAST experiences and are now making good progress. In the coming years, the world will listen to them.

Good discussions here.

I have had some similar discussions with AM on this issue.

Supporting Taliban, even as a plan B or C or whatever is not going to help Pakistan and will only create enemies in Afghanistan and elsewhere.

Besides being morally wrong after what they did earlier in Afghanistan with all those women beatings, beheadings and genocides.

Even if you claim that you didn't know how they would behave earlier and so share no blame for that (and I obviously don't buy it), the support for them even now is reprehensible.

 

[RazorMC]

There is one thing to consider.
It was the civilian government that denied any allowances for the drone attacks. They were even seen speaking against it. But then the WikiLeaks revealed our dear PM saying that they can continue the attacks while the leadership would disapprove of it and then forget about it.

Our political leadership turned out to be another fraud. If they condemn something, I know it is a sham and an act.

There haven't been any apologies so far.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

This Kayani apparently was worried about US image in Pakistan according to a wikileaks cable...

When you have no shame... do what you like... so true of this Army leadership...

Perhaps its time for the influentials in the Army to begin making some changes... You know I m talking to you...

 

[jahangeer yousaf]

appology and they sent drones on saturday what an apology keep it up pak army and usa

 

[RazorMC]

Just to mention: There is deep mistrust between the Pakistani and US Forces. They don't believe that we are serious in combatting terrorism and we don't believe that they are committed to the region.

If the comments that the Pak Army is still supporting certain individuals are true, then I think that it is because we're concerned the US will evacuate too soon and allow anarchy to take hold of Afghanistan once again. If the US can assure us that they will see this through to the end and help stabilize Afghanistan instead of letting maniacs loose (yes, Karzai might need to go too), I am sure that the US will receive a lot more cooperation from our military.

The situation in Iraq is still far from ideal and is a direct result of an untimely pull-out. We don't want that to happen to our neighbour.

What I suggest is let our military handle the military operations in Pakistan without US intervention (rather interference). We've already proven ourselves where even the mighty superpower has difficulties. Give us acces to the necessary tech and avoid confrontation with Pakistan.

 

[Vassnti]

Curious that the initial reports of this attack were 35 taliban killed 10 wounded, then a later report was 15 taliban 20 civilians then it becomes 45 civilians and 1 taliban.

There seems to be a lot of spin about. Facts we do know is that 45 or so people gathered at a base run by Hafiz Gul Bahadar and at least early on officials in Miranshah and Peshawar thought they were militants.

Presumably the information the Americans were reciving was in line with the first report, i do wonder who was passing on that information. Perhaps the condemnation of the army or particular officers should wait till we have information rather than speculation on what the time line on intel was, though that information may never be releaseed.

 

[Vassnti]

Just to mention: There is deep mistrust between the Pakistani and US Forces. They don't believe that we are serious in combatting terrorism and we don't believe that they are committed to the region.

If the comments that the Pak Army is still supporting certain individuals are true, then I think that it is because we're concerned the US will evacuate too soon and allow anarchy to take hold of Afghanistan once again. If the US can assure us that they will see this through to the end and help stabilize Afghanistan instead of letting maniacs loose (yes, Karzai might need to go too), I am sure that the US will receive a lot more cooperation from our military.
.

Not so much an If as a who. The army has come out before saying attacks in some areas are counter productive because they feel the people in the area are not involved in militancy in Pakistan, that creates the conflict, if the Americans think they are attaking Nato forces they probably dont care that they are not attaking Pakistan they are still an enemy.

If you look at this event logically there are a few possibilities. One some opperator woke up and thought yea im going to lob 4 hellfires atthe first group of people i see this morning, thats a world where we are all mad and though its the favorite ofthe jihadists i put it at possibility 0%

Two the people at the jirga were anti Nato pro Pakistan and the US ignore Pakistan advice and fired any way. A few months ago i would have listed that a 50/50 but in view of recent events this is exactly the wrong time to piss of people in the military in Pakistan i would list it a low probability.

The TTP organised the meeting, leaked it asured the Leaders attending they had army protection then cleared out of their own base and left them as a target for political capital. Cynical perhaps but has to be considered in the view of looking at who has "won" out of this incident. It wouldnt be the first time an over eager spook and a source with an agenda lead to a huge mistake ( see wmd's Iraq )

SNAFU, large meeting at a know militant encampment that was at least reported by some to be a militant leader meeting that was attacked with out accurate intel, means the US screwed up, some one in Pakistan intel screwed up and General Kayani has a right to be pissed off. Seeing General Kayani is regarded as inteligent and respected by so many this would explain why he is so angry over this event and not commented on others.

Both the two "possible explanations" make all the vitriol towards the Army of Pakistan uninformed and disrespectfull to people who risk their lives daily so others can sit safley at home and blog rude comments.

 

[Omar1984]

US in no mood to tender apology

ISLAMABAD - Washington is showing cold response to Islamabad’s efforts seeking an apology from the US over the last week’s drone attack targeting a tribal peace congregation in North Waziristan Agency that had left at least 41 innocent people killed.

Well-placed sources informed The Nation on Monday neither the US ambassador to Pakistan Camron Munter had honoured his pledge to leave for Washington to deliver Islamabad’s note of protest, nor does the State Department seem prepared to tender apology.

This has been after Ambassador Munter’s summoned meeting with Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir held in the Foreign Office. The Foreign Office spokesperson Tehmina Janjua had on record informed this scribe that the US envoy was to leave Pakistan for Washington on Saturday last despite the US Embassy’s claim that the ambassador was in Pakistan.

The powerful US ambassador has not yet left Pakistan, which further gave credence to the doubts that US is adamant to tender apology over the issue.
The Foreign Office spokesperson had no explanation when asked about the prospect of US seeking apology, except saying: “ We have made a strong demarche. Our concerns have been clearly and strongly conveyed. We shall continue to raise this matter with the US”.

Meanwhile, President Asif Ali Zardari who is also the Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces of Pakistan has no plans to say a word over this crucial issue when he addresses the joint sitting of the Parliament today.

Sources still hoped that the President may include the issue ahead of his address, but so far his speech does not include any reference to the drone strikes in a glaring breach of Pak’s sovereignty and independence.


US in no mood to tender apology | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online

 

[Abu Basit]

US in no mood to tender apology

ISLAMABAD - Washington is showing cold response to Islamabad’s efforts seeking an apology from the US over the last week’s drone attack targeting a tribal peace congregation in North Waziristan Agency that had left at least 41 innocent people killed.

Well-placed sources informed The Nation on Monday neither the US ambassador to Pakistan Camron Munter had honoured his pledge to leave for Washington to deliver Islamabad’s note of protest, nor does the State Department seem prepared to tender apology.

This has been after Ambassador Munter’s summoned meeting with Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir held in the Foreign Office. The Foreign Office spokesperson Tehmina Janjua had on record informed this scribe that the US envoy was to leave Pakistan for Washington on Saturday last despite the US Embassy’s claim that the ambassador was in Pakistan.

The powerful US ambassador has not yet left Pakistan, which further gave credence to the doubts that US is adamant to tender apology over the issue.
The Foreign Office spokesperson had no explanation when asked about the prospect of US seeking apology, except saying: “ We have made a strong demarche. Our concerns have been clearly and strongly conveyed. We shall continue to raise this matter with the US”.

Meanwhile, President Asif Ali Zardari who is also the Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces of Pakistan has no plans to say a word over this crucial issue when he addresses the joint sitting of the Parliament today.

Sources still hoped that the President may include the issue ahead of his address, but so far his speech does not include any reference to the drone strikes in a glaring breach of Pak’s sovereignty and independence.


US in no mood to tender apology | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online

Pakistani establishment is asking too much ....

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Pakistan army is responsible for all killed in suicide bombings, it's their policies which is creating reaction.

First of all, whether you agree or not with the policy of deploying the military to combat terrorists/militants/insurgents in FATA and elsewhere, the fact is that the State/Government has every right to deploy the military/Police/para military to enforce security. If you disagree with government policy, the proper means of addressing this is through peaceful protests and your vote. Benazir Bhutto was extremely clear in the run up to the 2008 elections that she would attack Taliban/Aq terrorists in FATA, and expand military operations there. She even called Musharraf's efforts weak and half hearted. She was murdered by the Taliban for that position, and Pakistanis still voted for her party. If Pakistanis do not like the policy of military operations to attack terrorists, then they need to vote for a party reflective of a similar position on the issue.

There is NO justification for suicide bombings targeting innocents who have nothing to do with the events in question - those carrying out such attacks are terrorists - whether they be Palestinians bombing Israeli cafe's, Iraqis bombing Shia markets, or the Taliban/AQ/LeJ bombing funerals, markets and other places in Pakistan.

I have pointed this out before - any more support or justification for terrorism and terrorists from you or anyone else then get ready to be shipped off.