Pakistan Deep state....Read THIS

[Indus Pakistan]

Disagreements are perfectly acceptable and have always been acceptable

Not really. The lack of consensus on dates for eid is low level on the scale of disagreement. When that diagreement relates to something higher on the scale like blasphemy then the results are far more direct - as we saw. Meaning disagreement over dates cannot be used by anypone to start riots. But over blasphemy they can. At heart of the issue is who is the final arbiter. It's all fine and well everybody talking about Islam and defending it but who is that has the definitive rights to decide?

In catholocism the Pope is the spiritual head of the Catholics and under him the Vatican gives edicts that are final on matters relating to their religion. If your catholic you then follow that. In Anglican Christianity the Archbishop is the final authority. Who do we have in Islam who can give the definitive exposition on islam? It appears every mullah, in every mosque is espousing his interpretations and all don't converge on even simple things like date for eid.

Specifically in context of Pakistan is the constitution supreme or some mullah who feels he represents as Islam as Khadim Rizvi felt?

Since you guys can’t agree whom

Funny thing is as a outsider you can see what the problem is. We don't have a pope, archbishop, supreme ayatollah etc. Instead we have 1,000s of interpretations all vying to be regarded as the 'real Islam'. And often fighting over their faith.

 

[Sugarcane]

You gentleman have touched the crux, the core of the fundamental problem. 200 million Pakistani's talk of Islam. 1.6 billion Muslims talk of Islam. But can somebody tell me please exactly one point of referance that all can look to as the definitive interpretation of Islam. Meaning who in a body of 1.6 billion Muslims is the custoduan of Islam. I might say King Salman is. You might say Ayatollah Khatami is. Another might say Khadim Rizvi is. And it goes on, on, on, on. For example the Islamic world can't even agree on the most basic of things. The actual day for Eid. Differant days are announced. How can we have one custodian that all can agree on? Don't forget everybody will have their favourite mufti or mullah to tout as 'the custodian'.

This us the crux of the problem . Can somebody please answer this. Who is the final custodian of Islam? Why is is there even no consensus on simple matter as date for Eid?

Muslims in one street can't agree on most basic thing of prayer timing and you are asking 1.6 billion living around the globe to agree on Eid. Unless we take back Islam from clutches of clerics it will remain impractical for 21st century. As people don't want to revisit interpretations, narrations, historical accounts and fatwas of people they follow and consider them equal to prophets who can't make mistakes so there's not any room for improvement, best is separate the religion from state affairs and get ride of this debate. State should make laws as they deem fit as per requirement of 21st century to run and manage the country and must ask people to keep their religion/sect to themselves and limited to their own lives.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

 

[SHAH07]

nope, how would religion come to her mind in this case
unless, they said something bad about Christianity

Because they refused to take water from her hands beacuse she was a Christian.. and they Got into a heated debate ..
And what bad can a muslim say about Christianity.. we believe in Hazrat Esa AS and we believe in injeel

 

[Jf Thunder]

Because they refused to take water from her hands beacuse she was a Christian.. and they Got into a heated debate ..
And what bad can a muslim say about Christianity.. we believe in Hazrat Esa AS and we believe in injeel

obviously illiterate people like them, dont know that, do they
heated debate about what exactly?

 

[I.R.A]

1. Take all genuine Ulema i.e Tariq Jameel...on board all across Pakistan....Make them give fatwa about the security and holiness of Pakistan as a state. Make them give fatwa about how it is haram to pick up arms against own very Islamic republic. How it is haram to cause chaos and disrupt live of countrymen. Make that fatwa PUBLIC across all Pakistan and institutions and in your branches of military and intelligence as well. Average joe should read that in simple language. Propagate it through every single media/medium.

Un-Islamic.

2. Don't send Asia bibi to west...DON'T DO THAT unless you want another face in west to humiliate Pakistan on international front like Hussain haqqani or Malala.

Malala may was not involved deliberately in maligning Pakistan but she did give impression that girls struggle in Pakistan when going to education. West is using her to tarnish image of Pakistan and will use Asia too against Pakistan...Take that Asia into protective custody. DON'T send her abroad.

Unconstitutional.

Can anyone back this through ahadeeth (I don't want to post the other video) I think this itself tantamount to blasphemy.

Won't say anything about traditions (ahadeeth) but this is what Quran says.

"You will certainly hear much abuse from the followers of previous books and from the idol-worshipping people. And if you are patient and keep your duty -- this is surely a matter of great resolution." (3:186)

"Bear patiently what they say.........." (20:130)

"So be patient, [O Muhammad], over what they say......" (50:39)

"And be patient over what they say and avoid them with gracious avoidance." (73:10)

"Obey not the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and disregard their hurtful talk ......" (33:48)

"And if you invite them to guidance, they hear not; and you see them looking towards you, yet they see not. Hold fast to forgiveness and enjoin goodness and turn away from the ignorant." (7:198-199)

"Let not the possessors of grace and means among you swear against giving to the near relatives and the poor and those who had to flee in God?s way. Pardon and overlook. Do you not love that God should forgive you??" (24:22)

Now either that tradition he is quoting can be true or what Quran says is true. Obviously no one would better understand and practice Quran than Messenger Peace be upon him.

 

[SHAH07]

obviously illiterate people like them, dont know that, do they
heated debate about what exactly?

Everyone knows about that .. heated debate about religion obviously ..

Wrong! I have first-hand knowledge and experience that NO ONE refuses to take water from or share a glass with a Christian in Pakistan.

Unless that Christian is a miraasi or chamaar (even shiddi). They treat the Muslim shiddi, miraasi and mussali the same way because they are from shudras/dalits

This woman was mistreated because she is shudra not because she is Christian

Yes noone refuses to take water from non muslims but there always are exceptions

And dont know about shiddi mirasi chimaar .. but people dont like to drink from a glass of jamadar ( cleaner ) ..

 

[Jf Thunder]

Everyone knows about that .. heated debate about religion obviously ..

heated debate?
you mean a blasphemous debate?

 

[SHAH07]

heated debate?
you mean a blasphemous debate?

Yes .. it may have started like .. yeh kaisa mazhab hai jisme tum kisi aur ghair muslim kai hath se pani tak nahi pii saktai and than blasphemy..

 

[Jf Thunder]

Yes .. it may have started like .. yeh kaisa mazhab hai jisme tum kisi aur ghair muslim kai hath se pani tak nahi pii saktai and than blasphemy..

I doubt that is whats happened
from the series of events, apparently those two women insulted Christianity as well

 

[TMA]

Not really. The lack of consensus on dates for eid is low level on the scale of disagreement. When that diagreement relates to something higher on the scale like blasphemy then the results are far more direct - as we saw. Meaning disagreement over dates cannot be used by anypone to start riots. But over blasphemy they can. At heart of the issue is who is the final arbiter. It's all fine and well everybody talking about Islam and defending it but who is that has the definitive rights to decide?

In catholocism the Pope is the spiritual head of the Catholics and under him the Vatican gives edicts that are final on matters relating to their religion. If your catholic you then follow that. In Anglican Christianity the Archbishop is the final authority. Who do we have in Islam who can give the definitive exposition on islam? It appears every mullah, in every mosque is espousing his interpretations and all don't converge on even simple things like date for eid.

Specifically in context of Pakistan is the constitution supreme or some mullah who feels he represents as Islam as Khadim Rizvi felt?

Funny thing is as a outsider you can see what the problem is. We don't have a pope, archbishop, supreme ayatollah etc. Instead we have 1,000s of interpretations all vying to be regarded as the 'real Islam'. And often fighting over their faith.

Not really. The lack of consensus on dates for eid is low level on the scale of disagreement. When that diagreement relates to something higher on the scale like blasphemy then the results are far more direct - as we saw. Meaning disagreement over dates cannot be used by anypone to start riots. But over blasphemy they can. At heart of the issue is who is the final arbiter. It's all fine and well everybody talking about Islam and defending it but who is that has the definitive rights to decide?

In catholocism the Pope is the spiritual head of the Catholics and under him the Vatican gives edicts that are final on matters relating to their religion. If your catholic you then follow that. In Anglican Christianity the Archbishop is the final authority. Who do we have in Islam who can give the definitive exposition on islam? It appears every mullah, in every mosque is espousing his interpretations and all don't converge on even simple things like date for eid.

Specifically in context of Pakistan is the constitution supreme or some mullah who feels he represents as Islam as Khadim Rizvi felt?

Funny thing is as a outsider you can see what the problem is. We don't have a pope, archbishop, supreme ayatollah etc. Instead we have 1,000s of interpretations all vying to be regarded as the 'real Islam'. And often fighting over their faith.

Well ultimately that will be God on that Day.....
But in this life we ought to refer to the Quran and Ahadith and no rioting is not justified because of disagreements over a legal verdict on a blasphemy case....taking your logic further...one could argue that Islam actually condones what ISIS did/are doing....some ignorant “Mullah” no doubt will say it is okay....

The Actor par excellance of this Age is at work....

 

[SHAH07]

I doubt that is whats happened
from the series of events, apparently those two women insulted Christianity as well

How can they insult christianity ?
If they had criticized Christianity they would have done it in a limit .. coz we believe in hazrat Esa AS
And cant say anything bad about him .. if asia had also criticized islam in limits it would have been okay .. but she crossed limits thats what series of events suggest

 

[Verve]

Because they refused to take water from her hands beacuse she was a Christian.. and they Got into a heated debate ..
And what bad can a muslim say about Christianity.. we believe in Hazrat Esa AS and we believe in injeel

You have clearly not heard some people in Pakistan talk about Christians and Christianity.

Same way the sects talk about each other. Enough is documented on that!

Are you even Pakistani?

 

[Jf Thunder]

How can they insult christianity ?
If they had criticized Christianity they would have done it in a limit .. coz we believe in hazrat Esa AS
And cant say anything bad about him .. if asia had also criticized islam in limits it would have been okay .. but she crossed limits thats what series of events suggest

really? does criticism of any religion have limits?
they criticized Christianity, she criticized Islam, if the event did indeed take place, both parties should be punished for blasphemy

 

[Mahmood-ur-Rehman]

Mr Jinnah used to read DAWN, which isn’t acceptable to GHQ.

Now DAWN is an anti state newspaper