Pakistan deals with its devils

[S-2]

"...we couldn't shut our eyes to the wild beast to the West, so we made peace with it."

You raised the wild beast of the west forth so your trucking companies could have access to CAR.

Nice try with the facts.

BTW, since when is appeasement and toadiness part of the Pakistani diplomatic repetoire? And what explains Maulvi Nazir and Hafez Gul Bahadur?

Over forty nations and the afghan people pay a daily price for Pakistan's attempts to impose its will upon Afghanistan. It needs to stop as Afghanistan has NEVER had such focus on its development from others.

You stand in that way. That should stop as it's wrong-

NATO Demand Pakistan Close Taliban Sanctuary- UNHCR Oct. 6, 2006 Ahmed Rashid

Please note the date-over one year before the TTP even formed.

I'm sure you'll also note the author and the sponsoring journal.

161 captives singing about the ISI. Just another fascinating chapter I wished to remind you lest you construct some facade suggesting that we're discussing something recent.

Eight years of sanctuary by an ousted foreign government in the land of the world's seventh largest army. That doesn't happen by accident.

 

[MastanKhan]

"I'm sorry, all your country gave the region was war and more war."

Cute bit of vitriol that fails to explain sanctuary and proxy war since late 2001 on over forty nations, the afghan people, and the U.N. mandate to raise forth Afghanistan.

Stop it or there may be even more war on your horizon.

Thanks.

Hi,

S 2---need to calm down a little bit----. There will be no other war that u s is going to be involved in. Americans don't want the price of gas reaching 200--400 dollars a barrel.

The country is already hurting--reccession maynot be over for a decade now----.

This effort that you are putting fighting pakistan here---why don't you put the same effort on getting the jobs back into the u s that were given away---talk to your congreesman and senator---right now you are on the losing side of the battle----about time you picked up a winning cause.

Forty nation---my foot. Forty black mailed nations---threatend with sanction---forty christian nations killing muslims---over a million in iraq---close to a mkillion in afghanistan.

 

[Fighter488]

That's exactly my point Mastan Khan!
America would be more OCCUPIED saving jobs going offshore to Asia and managing a slumping DOLLOR than making more WARS FOR PEACE (the most illogical reason for war, ever mentioned in entire human civilization) ! When EU is gathering its pace independent of US, RUSSIA and CHINA are making fast inroads in traditional American markets, when ISRAEL is getting more and more weak player in middle east chessboard, when Iran, Pakistan, Turkey and other muslim nations fast going the OTHER way to express thier dis-satisfaction, ANOTHER WAR look highly unlikely, however one wish it.

The reality is hard and it harder for those who are FRESHLY bitten by it. Let S2 and the group close thier eyes to reality!

Fighter

 

[illuminatus]

"I'm sorry, all your country gave the region was war and more war."

Cute bit of vitriol that fails to explain sanctuary and proxy war since late 2001 on over forty nations, the afghan people, and the U.N. mandate to raise forth Afghanistan.

Stop it or there may be even more war on your horizon.

Thanks.

Apart from all the emotional rhetoric, why don't you just come face to face to fight a war instead of hiding in Afghanistan and instigating covert operations from across border? I'm sure the Pakistanis are more than willing to give you a war that you so badly want. Why act like a coward?

PS. You're not a military professional. You don't even qualify for an amateur position. At least, the way you behave is certainly not professional.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Is there a nation on the face of earth that spent a trillion dollars on War and Lost it? The answer we all know it..so who is hurting who? The US govt is hurting a common american by taking their tax money spending it on their own monstrous creations..I would argue the whole afghan war fought by funding jihadis was the biggest mistake of united states..it would have been much better US fought it directly with Russia..i know some of you would say that would unleashed hell well what do you see inside Pakistan? Is it not the hell with groups threatening us to use chemicals, target killing as as well civilians dieing daily all over Pakistan...The creation of these jihadi groups us is responsible, so as a responsible state US has 1 option call on taliban to establish a Muslim nation reject Al-Qeda kick AQ, joint talibs and US forces conduct operations to evaporate AQ..sounds stupid to many but you americans know you introduced them to the world now deal this way otherwise keep fighting without success..

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

The problem with S 2 is that he cannot believe that the might of the great u s millitary has been pumelled in the h k mountain ranges and the high plains of afg---the high and mighty is clueless to what it can do---.

Look at all the cocky walkers of the prestigious u s milltary and the war mongering republican neo cons---you don't see anyone of them on the tv anymore. Their own party doesnot want to show their faces on the tv---because of bad publicity.

Come S 2---dare to start another war----see what happens to gas prices---. Right now the true un-employment in the state of calfornia is close to 20%---it is anicipated that the true reccession may carry on till the end of the decade. Let the gas price hit 200---300 dollars a barrel---.

Wars for peace is the dumbest reason to start a war---only one fool could do that---aka GWB---plus his leader Cheney. The u s millitary has its nose and behind rubbed in dirt so hard that it is clueless to which direction does it need to take

People like S 2 are just licking their wounds----you have ballz---show the dead coffins of your soldiers coming home---let the people see and decide if it is worth it or not---you bring them in darkness and do behind the door dburials---let us see the faces and the bodies of the living dead---those with deathly war wounds and not dead---let us see their vegetative states and let the nation decide what next.

You used to have some sense S 2----but the losses of over the years have poisioned your thinking and made you vengeful---S 2---it is over for you and the likes of you---you and your likes have murdered enough muslims in afg---your foolish thinking, bad bad planning and not accepting the job as your 100% percent own, from day one, has showed that neither you or your millitrary is capable of waging a war in a mountainous area---and for surely not against people for whom death doesnot mean much.

Let me tell you an anecdote about the afghans and you can share it with other idiots in your millitary---

The british commanders were rewarding their soldiers with medals for the batytle they had against the afghans---they saw a troop of afghans coming in---their leader asked the british commander---" where are our medals "---the commander said what medals---the afg replied---without us you didnot have a battle to fight---so where are our medals.

S 2, your millitary has reached a stage that where it is unable to learn anymore----------.

People---the only reason that you see the american soldiers fighting and enlisting---because there are no jobs left for them here in the u s---they will be left without a home, a shelter and no food on their own.

The reason they are out there, is that Obama cannot bring them home---because there are no jobs waiting for them---.

 

[rastor]

Hi,
---right now you are on the losing side of the battle----about time you picked up a winning cause.

Maybe...... But this is no vietnam. Vietnam never attacked America. Afghanistan/Taliban/AQ did. And there is every reason to believe that they will attack again after they reform. The Americans are not going to let the talibs get away. This see-saw will definitely affect your country more than anything else. The flight of capital, bombings are taking not just an emotional toll on your people but also on the economy. The question is which side pakistan takes. On the one side you have the greatest power on earth and on the other an unpopular pashtun extremist group. Choose. Choose very carefully. For even refusing to choose a side is also a choice but one that carries a very heavy price.

Forty nation---my foot. Forty black mailed nations---threatend with sanction---forty christian nations killing muslims---over a million in iraq---close to a mkillion in afghanistan.

Don't let your emotions get to you. An evil dictator who massacred fellow muslims was removed & the chinese are the ones getting oil rights.

 

[illuminatus]

It seems that this S-2 guy is some sort of ultra right-wing neocon devout. Even the average right-wing supporter in the US is sceptical about the ongoing wars. All I hear from this guy is the same bantering over and over again. It's like a tape recorder repeating itself. All he talks about is war. Never have I sensed any reconciliation or peace in his tone.

Well, anyone with a shred of honesty would acknowledge the disastrous effects that the war has had on the US and the world. As a result the US economy has been badly affected. Who could have thought that the US would be borrowing money from China to aid their wars? The wars have had an inverse impact on US economy. Not to mention the human cost factor.

 

[MastanKhan]

Maybe......


Don't let your emotions get to you. An evil dictator who massacred fellow muslims was removed & the chinese are the ones getting oil rights.

Oh Jee,

Wow---millions more were killed by the christian american army---the wealth, history, artifacts of the nation looted, thousands women, girls and boyz raped by sex starved american soldiers---the mental sickness of the american soldiers truly came into the fore front by the pictures from abu ghraib---those pictures and others thatwere used for pornograpgy were so detestable that Rummy refused them to be shown in public ever.

Even this seargent who raped the 14 years old iraqi girl and then killed all his family members with the support of his team is alomost off the hook---this is the badge of honor of the u s forces---. These troops and hundreds of others like them roamewd the city and country side streets looking for girls young boyz and women to rape----thousands and thousand were raped and then killed in fake encounters---only a couple of them got caught----.

This was all done by the great christian army---holding the bible in one hand, reciting the message of christ---the soldiers of christ murdering people who had done nothing to them.

 

[illuminatus]

The bitter truth is that the Americans would be crawling all over Pakistan right now and raping and killing relentlessly like never before. Iraq was just a taste of things to come. The only thing that's holding these bloodthirsty people back is our minimum deterrence and the strength of army. The level of frustration can be gauged in their daily media witch-hunt against Pakistan. They don't hide their evil desires about Pakistan's nuclear weapons. Also, the blunt threats by their top military brass during frequent visits to Pakistan are a testimony of this fact. Lessons learnt are to strengthen our deterrence capabilities and resolve even more to keep such aggressors at bay.

 

[rastor]

Wow---millions more were killed by the christian american army---the wealth, history, artifacts of the nation looted, thousands women, girls and boyz raped by sex starved american soldiers---the mental sickness of the american soldiers truly came into the fore front by the pictures from abu ghraib---those pictures and others thatwere used for pornograpgy were so detestable that Rummy refused them to be shown in public ever.

Even this seargent who raped the 14 years old iraqi girl and then killed all his family members with the support of his team is alomost off the hook---this is the badge of honor of the u s forces---. These troops and hundreds of others like them roamewd the city and country side streets looking for girls young boyz and women to rape----thousands and thousand were raped and then killed in fake encounters---only a couple of them got caught----.

This was all done by the great christian army---holding the bible in one hand, reciting the message of christ---the soldiers of christ murdering people who had done nothing to them.

............

 

[rastor]

I presume that the entire premise of pakistani ambivalence on afghan taliban would be based on

1. Americans backing down letting talibs take over atleast southern afghanistan
2. talibs not aiding TTP
3. Talibs keeping the indians out of afghanistan

To give an enemy perspective there is absolutely no guarantee that the first 2 will happen. The third point will happen for sure if talibs take-over. Right now sitting in the fence is costing pakistan dearly. When pak's economic growth suffers the Indians win not to mention the suffering being wrought upon the pakistani people. When America decides enough is enough & decide to make pak an enemy the Indians win. When talbs after taking over southern afghanistan decide to help their brethren TTP the indians win. Afghanistan is a small price to pay for India. For india knows for sure that fanatics won't take over pak but will make sure that its on the boil. But if the talibs fall and pak is back to normal with a good economic engine humming .... do the indians win? Will the increased indian influence in afghanistan worth the price? There are lot more smarter people here with better points I just wanted to throw a few at you.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

NATO Demand Pakistan Close Taliban Sanctuary- UNHCR Oct. 6, 2006 Ahmed Rashid

Please note the date-over one year before the TTP even formed.

The TTP may have formed in 2007, the factions that formed the TTP existed long before that.

I'm sure you'll also note the author and the sponsoring journal.

161 captives singing about the ISI. Just another fascinating chapter I wished to remind you lest you construct some facade suggesting that we're discussing something recent.

Oh yes, and this gem from it:

"NATO captured 160 Taliban, many of them Pakistanis who described in detail the ISI's support to the Taliban. NATO is now mapping the entire Taliban support structure in Balochistan, ranging from ISI-run training camps near Quetta to huge ammo dumps, arrival points for new weapons and meeting places for the Taliban leadership council in the province's capital."

Amazing isn't it that we never got to actually see this alleged 'detailed' evidence, and despite 'mapping the entire Taliban support structure in Balochistan' years ago, the US has yet to provide actionable intelligence to Pakistan on any of it.

It is an unsubstantiated opinion piece by an author long known for his anti-Military views.

Baloney sir is what it is.

Eight years of sanctuary by an ousted foreign government in the land of the world's seventh largest army. That doesn't happen by accident.

You are committed to repeating a lie till it becomes the truth - there was no sanctuary. Negotiations and dialog were the preferred means of dealing with the Taliban that threatened the Pakistani state and those that did not.

The world's seventh largest army isn't sitting around to just clean up the US's shite and jump when the US says jump. We have a huge threat on the Eastern Front and the majority of our resources are correctly focused on that threat.

Perhaps you can explain the 'accident' by which the world's most advanced military and one of the largest armies allowed the Taliban and AQ to escape from Afghanistan because of a reluctance to deploy any more than a few hundred ground troops.

That was your fault, not ours.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I presume that the entire premise of pakistani ambivalence on afghan taliban would be based on

1. Americans backing down letting talibs take over atleast southern afghanistan
2. talibs not aiding TTP
3. Talibs keeping the indians out of afghanistan

At the moment it is primarily a question of resources and not starting more fights than we can handle.

Realize that currently close to thirty thousand are deployed in Swat & Malakand, over thirty thousand in South Waziristan, and thousands more in Bajaur and Mohmand. Since the SW offensive, as the Taliban escaped, smaller offensives have also been started in Khyber and Orakzai.

The existing battles, and the greatest threat to Pakistan, must be neutralized before taking on more enemies.

 

[S-2]

"The TTP may have formed in 2007, the factions that formed the TTP existed long before that."

Not beyond being what they'd always been-pashtu tribal militias. Armed, ignorant, defiant of the state for good reason and susceptible to islamic radicalization.

Other than that, they were a loose conglomoration of mixed jihadi experiences such as Baitullah Mehsud's three own personal trips to Afghanistan in the 90s to assist the implementation of sharia.

They got their finishing classes in late 2001 and 2002 sitting at the feet of those adorned by your acquiescence.

" Amazing isn't it that we never got to actually see this alleged 'detailed' evidence, and despite 'mapping the entire Taliban support structure in Balochistan' years ago, the US has yet to provide actionable intelligence to Pakistan on any of it."

Who are you to know what is seen or not seen? I haven't seen sh!t. OTOH, nobody in the over forty nations inside Afghanistan have seen anything to suggest you've some basis of merit to your claims about India. They all seem in agreement about Pakistan though.

Care to argue that? Can you explain such beside suggesting how all forty plus nations plus the afghan hosts are abject toadies of America?

"Baloney sir is what it is."

I doubt that. I imagine that 162 taliban were in fact interrogated by Canadian and Afghan intelligence officers and that they indicated as Rashid has described. They wouldn't be the first either. Nor the last.

"You are committed to repeating a lie till it becomes the truth..."

You mean like perpetuating your ignorant nonsense about Indian consulates? For shame that you of all people embrace that urban myth despite the easy access to the bald truth. When those of such intellectual eminence as you fall prey to those shop-worn tales, how can lesser souls here be expected to know better?

"...there was no sanctuary. Negotiations and dialog were the preferred means of dealing with the Taliban that threatened the Pakistani state and those that did not."

Do you actually read what you've written? Of course there's sanctuary otherwise whom would you be negotiating with and WHERE?

Pakistan?

For the last eight years you've negotiated with "the taliban that threatened the Pakistani state"- your own citizens. Talk all you want with them.

"...and those that did not..." are your foreign guests whom have encamped undisturbed upon your lands for eight years as you've "negotiated"...

...while they've slaughtered all standing in their way in Afghanistan. Nevermind your own home-grown irhabists like Maulvi Nazir and Hafez Gul Bahadur whom you've also pointed across the border as part of your negotiations.

The rest of us, literally, can't live with your "negotiations".

"We have a huge threat on the Eastern Front and the majority of our resources are correctly focused on that threat."

The majority of your resources aren't defending your lands now under assault in preference of slaying mythical windmills. It's nothing more than dissemblance to avoid dismantling that which you'd prefer for strategic reasons to maintain.

Until you make a demonstrable, concerted effort against the afghan taliban, with or without your eastern forces, your actions speak far louder than your words.

Afghanistan faced enough issues in the aftermath of the Bonn Accords to be an extremely difficult situation. Eight years of externally-directed insurgency has FAR compounded the problems.

"Perhaps you can explain the 'accident' by which the world's most advanced military and one of the largest armies allowed the Taliban and AQ to escape from Afghanistan because of a reluctance to deploy any more than a few hundred ground troops."

Actually I can do so far easier than you can explain the subsequent EIGHT YEARS of willful neglect by you that's followed.

Thanks.