fatman17
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i may be getting old but that is from LED ZEPPELIN!
Pakistan: Coming Coup, The Final Solution
- Thread starter Ali.009
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i may be getting old but that is from LED ZEPPELIN!
batmannow
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SURLY usa is responisible, what is going on the in whole of the world today, plz check US history, the last 25 years, its minuplation of the resources , & its cowboyism towards weeker nations?
who supported, a prime minister's hanging?
who supported, gen. zia ul haq, & for what?
who killed gen. zia ul haq?
who give trainngs to people, like OSSAMA BIN LADEN, who made them the mountain warriors?
i have loads of questions, if want i can ask more!
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Cheeta
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When one becomes a doll or a football to be played with, certainly others will make a fun of it. Do not blame others for own failures and weaknesses. The fault of United States is that it has been supporting mostly the wrong people. Zia-ul Haq was not a wrong doer at all, he made the Communism collapse which was the greatest threat to the world at that time. To support Zardari, Musharraf and Benazir like people is not recommended but that is not in full the mistake of others but those who bring them to the throne by even showing their postal ballets.
A saint Muarri seeing the roasted dove before him sighed first and then said; ' O dove God did not make you a hawk otherwise you would not have been put before me in this manner'. This has been written in a poem of Allama Iqbal also.
A saint Muarri seeing the roasted dove before him sighed first and then said; ' O dove God did not make you a hawk otherwise you would not have been put before me in this manner'. This has been written in a poem of Allama Iqbal also.
Not sure if this has already been posted or not, but worth a read:
Pak Army’s patience will not last forever: WSJ
Masood Haider
Friday, 27 Feb, 2009 | 12:35 AM PST |
font-size small font-size largefont-sizeprintemailComment on this article share
A supporter of Pakistani opposition leader Nawaz Sharif waves a party flag after he, along with others, burnt a police vehicle during a demonstration in Rawalpindi.—AP
A supporter of Pakistani opposition leader Nawaz Sharif waves a party flag after he, along with others, burnt a police vehicle during a demonstration in Rawalpindi.—AP
NEW YORK: ‘I think there's a lot of patience in the services right now to let the civilian government take its course, but the patience won't last forever but it will last for a long time,’ the Wall Street Journal quoted a senior ISI official as saying Thursday in the aftermath of political crisis which emerged in Pakistan following the disqualification of Sharifs by a Supreme Court Bench.
‘For now, there appears little prospect that the powerful military, which has ruled Pakistan for much of its 62 years as an independent nation, will intervene,’ the Journal said, adding ‘Gen. Ashfaq Kayani, the army chief and a veteran soldier, is determined to focus on fighting the militants and staying out of public life,’ quoting senior civilian and military officials and Western diplomats who often deal with him.
The WSJ observed ‘Mr Zardari has proved willing to back down on policy changes that Gen Kayani opposes. In November, Mr Zardari announced that Pakistan was adopting a ‘no first strike’ policy for its nuclear arsenal. It was a drastic change from the military's long stance of refusing to rule out a nuclear first strike, a strategy designed to keep larger rival India off balance. Pakistan's top military brass was livid.’
The newspaper warned ‘Pakistan's mounting problems not only worry the new administration of US President Barack Obama they also have contributed to a sharp decline in President Asif Ali Zardrai’s approval ratings. Recent opinion polls indicate the president's approval rating has sunk to a level near that of Pervez Musharraf, the widely reviled former general ousted from the presidency by Mr Zardari and Mr Sharif last summer.
The WSJ noted: ‘Even Mr Zardari's relationship with his handpicked prime minister, Yousuf Raza Gilani, has become strained of late, several government officials say’. Associates of Mr Gilani say the prime minister has grown frustrated at Mr Zardari's failure to fulfill his promise to reduce the presidency to its traditional role as head of state, allowing the prime minister to take a bigger role in decision-making and appointments.
Western officials say they view Mr Zardari's record of government to date as mixed. They credit him with keeping the military focused on fighting the Taliban and al Qaeda and providing intelligence to aid missile strikes on the militants by US drone aircraft.
His position is a risky one because of the widespread outrage in Pakistan over the attacks.
Gen Kayani immediately called Mr Zardari to say Pakistan's nuclear doctrine was ‘irreversible’. The policy of vagueness was restored.
Underscoring that ‘Mr Zardari is emerging as a divisive figure at a time when Pakistan faces a rising Islamist insurgency and a stuttering economy,’ the newspaper observed ‘the widower of slain former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto is alienating both allies and foes. Even his personal style has turned off supporters of his wife —some of whom serve in his government but are now reluctant to deal with him directly. At meetings in recent months, according to several witnesses, he lashed out at senior ministers, calling one a ‘witch’ and another ‘impotent.’
Pak Army’s patience will not last forever: WSJ
Masood Haider
Friday, 27 Feb, 2009 | 12:35 AM PST |
font-size small font-size largefont-sizeprintemailComment on this article share
A supporter of Pakistani opposition leader Nawaz Sharif waves a party flag after he, along with others, burnt a police vehicle during a demonstration in Rawalpindi.—AP
A supporter of Pakistani opposition leader Nawaz Sharif waves a party flag after he, along with others, burnt a police vehicle during a demonstration in Rawalpindi.—AP
NEW YORK: ‘I think there's a lot of patience in the services right now to let the civilian government take its course, but the patience won't last forever but it will last for a long time,’ the Wall Street Journal quoted a senior ISI official as saying Thursday in the aftermath of political crisis which emerged in Pakistan following the disqualification of Sharifs by a Supreme Court Bench.
‘For now, there appears little prospect that the powerful military, which has ruled Pakistan for much of its 62 years as an independent nation, will intervene,’ the Journal said, adding ‘Gen. Ashfaq Kayani, the army chief and a veteran soldier, is determined to focus on fighting the militants and staying out of public life,’ quoting senior civilian and military officials and Western diplomats who often deal with him.
The WSJ observed ‘Mr Zardari has proved willing to back down on policy changes that Gen Kayani opposes. In November, Mr Zardari announced that Pakistan was adopting a ‘no first strike’ policy for its nuclear arsenal. It was a drastic change from the military's long stance of refusing to rule out a nuclear first strike, a strategy designed to keep larger rival India off balance. Pakistan's top military brass was livid.’
The newspaper warned ‘Pakistan's mounting problems not only worry the new administration of US President Barack Obama they also have contributed to a sharp decline in President Asif Ali Zardrai’s approval ratings. Recent opinion polls indicate the president's approval rating has sunk to a level near that of Pervez Musharraf, the widely reviled former general ousted from the presidency by Mr Zardari and Mr Sharif last summer.
The WSJ noted: ‘Even Mr Zardari's relationship with his handpicked prime minister, Yousuf Raza Gilani, has become strained of late, several government officials say’. Associates of Mr Gilani say the prime minister has grown frustrated at Mr Zardari's failure to fulfill his promise to reduce the presidency to its traditional role as head of state, allowing the prime minister to take a bigger role in decision-making and appointments.
Western officials say they view Mr Zardari's record of government to date as mixed. They credit him with keeping the military focused on fighting the Taliban and al Qaeda and providing intelligence to aid missile strikes on the militants by US drone aircraft.
His position is a risky one because of the widespread outrage in Pakistan over the attacks.
Gen Kayani immediately called Mr Zardari to say Pakistan's nuclear doctrine was ‘irreversible’. The policy of vagueness was restored.
Underscoring that ‘Mr Zardari is emerging as a divisive figure at a time when Pakistan faces a rising Islamist insurgency and a stuttering economy,’ the newspaper observed ‘the widower of slain former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto is alienating both allies and foes. Even his personal style has turned off supporters of his wife —some of whom serve in his government but are now reluctant to deal with him directly. At meetings in recent months, according to several witnesses, he lashed out at senior ministers, calling one a ‘witch’ and another ‘impotent.’
Torpedo
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Is the coupe possible?
I am feeling like either no one is paying attention towards a VERY important factor or I am horribly mistaken. Please correct me in the later case.
The factor is IMF loans. IMF has sanctioned loans to the countries under control of dictators and have been heavily criticized for the same. So, I don't think that IMF will repeat it's mistakes.
Please take the following into consideration -
Pakistan has taken loan of $ 7.6 bn (seeking for another $ 4.5 bn). The repayment will be for five years starting from 2011.
The money will be delivered in installments to Pakistan. It is almost impossible for Pakistan to survive economically without the loans.
fatman17
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Pakistan: Now or Never?
Perspectives on Pakistan
February 27th, 2009
The Pakistan Army and “the history of the stick”
Posted by: Myra MacDonald
In his book on the Pakistan Army, South Asia expert Stephen Cohen quotes a senior lieutenant-general as warning the late Zulfikar Ali Bhutto against using the military to control political opposition. “If you use a stick too often, the stick will take over,” Cohen quotes the general as saying. “This has always been the history of the stick.”
There’s no sign yet of the Pakistan Army reverting to its usual role of wielding the big stick. But with the police out in force to quell protests in Punjab over a Supreme Court ruling excluding former prime minister Nawaz Sharif and his brother Shahbaz from office, the obvious question to ask is whether we are about to see a repeat of the old cycle in which security forces are called out to restore order and end up taking over altogether. Indeed, the Pakistan Army’s first involvement in politics is generally dated to the 1953 imposition of martial law in Lahore – where protests erupted on Thursday over the court ruling. Sharif has blamed President Asif Ali Zardari, widower of the late Benazir Bhutto, for the ruling.
Historical parallels can, of course, be misleading. Pakistan Army chief, General Ashfaq Kayani, has made it clear he wants to keep the military out of politics. He is currently visiting the United States, where the administration of President Barack Obama has repeatedly stressed its commitment to civilian democracy in Pakistan.
And Zardari, who has imposed governor’s rule in Punjab to replace an administration run by Shabaz Sharif, may yet find an accommodation with the powerful Sharif brothers over the issues that divide them — the restoration of judges sacked by former president Pervez Musharraf along with Zardari’s retention of presidential powers he inherited when Musharraf quit last year. Or we might be set for a long period of political manoeuvring between Pakistan’s bickering politicians which drags on for weeks or months.
Yet you have to wonder how well, and for how long, Kayani’s resolve to keep the army out of politics will survive if unrest in Punjab escalates. Punjab is not only the most populous province in Pakistan and heartland of popular support for the Sharif brothers - it is where the Pakistan Army has its roots. A Taliban insurgency against the Pakistan government has already spread from the country’s tribal areas on the borders with Afghanistan into its North West Frontier Province (NWFP). The Taliban have also been blamed for suicide bombings in Punjab and according to this article in the News could reach further into the province by picking up fresh recruits among the country’s poor.
Pakistan is already on edge after the government agreed a ceasefire with Taliban militants in the Swat valley in NWFP in exchange for promising to introduce sharia law. Now with this political confrontation blowing up between Zardari and the Sharif brothers, events are moving very fast.
“The two parties are going for the kill,” the Daily Times said in an editorial. “As in the past, they might both come a cropper. This time, however, there is real danger that the state they are trampling upon in the process may join the failed ranks of Somalia, Sudan, Congo and Zimbabwe.”
To return to the history of the stick, here is what Cohen quoted a Pakistani writer as saying in a book published in 1963:
“The more (the Army) wanted to stand aloof and devote its energies to the real duties of any army, the more it found itself entangled in civil tasks. Hard pressed governments were forced to call for its assistance in times of grave natural and man-made calamities, which became increasingly common in Pakistan.”
Are we heading for a repetition of history? Or do we assume all the players involved have learned from experience?
Perspectives on Pakistan
February 27th, 2009
The Pakistan Army and “the history of the stick”
Posted by: Myra MacDonald
In his book on the Pakistan Army, South Asia expert Stephen Cohen quotes a senior lieutenant-general as warning the late Zulfikar Ali Bhutto against using the military to control political opposition. “If you use a stick too often, the stick will take over,” Cohen quotes the general as saying. “This has always been the history of the stick.”
There’s no sign yet of the Pakistan Army reverting to its usual role of wielding the big stick. But with the police out in force to quell protests in Punjab over a Supreme Court ruling excluding former prime minister Nawaz Sharif and his brother Shahbaz from office, the obvious question to ask is whether we are about to see a repeat of the old cycle in which security forces are called out to restore order and end up taking over altogether. Indeed, the Pakistan Army’s first involvement in politics is generally dated to the 1953 imposition of martial law in Lahore – where protests erupted on Thursday over the court ruling. Sharif has blamed President Asif Ali Zardari, widower of the late Benazir Bhutto, for the ruling.
Historical parallels can, of course, be misleading. Pakistan Army chief, General Ashfaq Kayani, has made it clear he wants to keep the military out of politics. He is currently visiting the United States, where the administration of President Barack Obama has repeatedly stressed its commitment to civilian democracy in Pakistan.
And Zardari, who has imposed governor’s rule in Punjab to replace an administration run by Shabaz Sharif, may yet find an accommodation with the powerful Sharif brothers over the issues that divide them — the restoration of judges sacked by former president Pervez Musharraf along with Zardari’s retention of presidential powers he inherited when Musharraf quit last year. Or we might be set for a long period of political manoeuvring between Pakistan’s bickering politicians which drags on for weeks or months.
Yet you have to wonder how well, and for how long, Kayani’s resolve to keep the army out of politics will survive if unrest in Punjab escalates. Punjab is not only the most populous province in Pakistan and heartland of popular support for the Sharif brothers - it is where the Pakistan Army has its roots. A Taliban insurgency against the Pakistan government has already spread from the country’s tribal areas on the borders with Afghanistan into its North West Frontier Province (NWFP). The Taliban have also been blamed for suicide bombings in Punjab and according to this article in the News could reach further into the province by picking up fresh recruits among the country’s poor.
Pakistan is already on edge after the government agreed a ceasefire with Taliban militants in the Swat valley in NWFP in exchange for promising to introduce sharia law. Now with this political confrontation blowing up between Zardari and the Sharif brothers, events are moving very fast.
“The two parties are going for the kill,” the Daily Times said in an editorial. “As in the past, they might both come a cropper. This time, however, there is real danger that the state they are trampling upon in the process may join the failed ranks of Somalia, Sudan, Congo and Zimbabwe.”
To return to the history of the stick, here is what Cohen quoted a Pakistani writer as saying in a book published in 1963:
“The more (the Army) wanted to stand aloof and devote its energies to the real duties of any army, the more it found itself entangled in civil tasks. Hard pressed governments were forced to call for its assistance in times of grave natural and man-made calamities, which became increasingly common in Pakistan.”
Are we heading for a repetition of history? Or do we assume all the players involved have learned from experience?
RabzonKhan
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Army will stay out of politics, says Kayani
February 28, 2009
WASHINGTON (Agencies) - Chief of Army Staff (COAS) Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, who is currently on a US visit, pledged to keep his countrys armed forces out of politics, asserting that the Army would not intervene in a crisis.
According to the New York Times, Gen Kayani gave this assurance during his meetings with Congress leaders as he faced questions whether the military would step in if the political situation in Pakistan deteriorated.
The daily, quoting a Pakistani official, reports that Gen Kayani, who unlike his predecessor Pervez Musharraf, has pledged to keep the military out of politics, said the Army would not intervene. The Congressional leaders with whom he had discussions included House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Horward L Berman, Senate Armed Forces Committee Chief Carl M Levin and Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman John Kerry.
Gen Kayani had a busy schedule in Washington, during which he met Defence Secretary Robert Gates to exchange views on matters of mutual interests and regional situation and called on Lieutenant General Mapples, Director Defence Intelligence Agency. Gen Kayani visited Pentagon and held a detailed meeting with Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee Admiral Michael Mullen on regional strategic matters.
Among those whom Gen Kayani met included National Security Advisor General James L Jones and Special Representative to Pakistan and Afghanistan Richard Holbrooke, Commander of US Central Command General David Petraeus.
On Thursday, the COAS visited Command and General Staff College at Fort Leaven Worth, Kansas, where he was received by Lieutenant General William B Caldwell, IV Commandant US Army Command and General Staff College. Later at an International Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony, a photograph of Gen Kayani was placed in US Army International Hall of Fame. Kayani is the fourth Pakistani graduate of US Army Command and General Staff College who has been conferred upon this honour on obtaining four-star rank. At the end of the ceremony, the National Anthem of Pakistan was also played.
February 28, 2009
WASHINGTON (Agencies) - Chief of Army Staff (COAS) Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, who is currently on a US visit, pledged to keep his countrys armed forces out of politics, asserting that the Army would not intervene in a crisis.
According to the New York Times, Gen Kayani gave this assurance during his meetings with Congress leaders as he faced questions whether the military would step in if the political situation in Pakistan deteriorated.
The daily, quoting a Pakistani official, reports that Gen Kayani, who unlike his predecessor Pervez Musharraf, has pledged to keep the military out of politics, said the Army would not intervene. The Congressional leaders with whom he had discussions included House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Horward L Berman, Senate Armed Forces Committee Chief Carl M Levin and Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman John Kerry.
Gen Kayani had a busy schedule in Washington, during which he met Defence Secretary Robert Gates to exchange views on matters of mutual interests and regional situation and called on Lieutenant General Mapples, Director Defence Intelligence Agency. Gen Kayani visited Pentagon and held a detailed meeting with Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee Admiral Michael Mullen on regional strategic matters.
Among those whom Gen Kayani met included National Security Advisor General James L Jones and Special Representative to Pakistan and Afghanistan Richard Holbrooke, Commander of US Central Command General David Petraeus.
On Thursday, the COAS visited Command and General Staff College at Fort Leaven Worth, Kansas, where he was received by Lieutenant General William B Caldwell, IV Commandant US Army Command and General Staff College. Later at an International Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony, a photograph of Gen Kayani was placed in US Army International Hall of Fame. Kayani is the fourth Pakistani graduate of US Army Command and General Staff College who has been conferred upon this honour on obtaining four-star rank. At the end of the ceremony, the National Anthem of Pakistan was also played.
RabzonKhan
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asaad-ul-islam
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I really don't see why you guys are wasting your time contemplating a coup? honestly speaking, the army higher-ups are having a smashing time laughing at the mockery that's been going on for the past year. it's a slap on the faces of all the people who voted for democracy, a slap on the faces of those who thought we could have a free judiciary, and a slap on the faces of those who thought that Pakistan could actually break free from the clutches of US hegemony. this country has been plagued by jahel ignorants, and will be continue to be ruled by jahel ignorants.
fatman17
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Dear Asad - conspiracy theory has been made into an "art form" by our people esp the "chattering classes" who dont use the power of vote to make a sembelance of change or awareness in our country. so you are right, watch the "Jalsas" as the politicians of this country drive this country into the "abyss".
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