Pakistan-Chinese Navies to maneuver in Indian Ocean

[BRITISH]

THIS IS REAL NAVY

definition of a real Navy

indengious and self sufficient fot at least 70% of its equipment

Capable of building carriers subs frigates and destroyers

operational reach the entire indian ocean

nuclear tipped capability to give full triad

well trained complete doctrine from navy amphibious options to carrier airborne fighters to regional satalite linked comunication

JUST LIKE THE VEDIO

india good at lie and making Bollywood movie

 

[The Accountant]

It is of no importance how I define a navy but more importantly the roles that define a navy and PN role has only increased now that it carries the weight of our second strike capability and added security of gawadar. The days of fighting large battles on land is largely over. Modern battles will be fought in the air and on sea and one that takes control over both will win irrespective of how big or well equipped land army is. PN is largely under equipped when its compared with IN. To this date we no capable destroyer with a decent anti air capability. Our ex UK frigate are beyond obsolete. Their are a handful of F22 and perry class. The only part that will be well equipped will be the under water arm once we have those Chinese sub's in possession. Having said that it still does not constitute for surface platform.

I agree but I think the need of equipping navy is now being addressed .. With Chinese subs our main strike and trump card is underwater assets whereas we are aquiring small frigrates with effective anti arm wing ... last but not the least now strike role or air defense of navy is being transferred to thunders which are generation ahead of mirrages ... Previously mirrages were being used for strikes whereas f7s were for interception role but now with thunders air support of navy is much more flexible and modernize ... infact we can now take on mig 29 thorugh thunder without any fear ...

The area I am worried about if air force we still do not have credible information that we are going for early induction of 5th generation or are we buying off the shelf 4.5 generation ... any delay in such decision will be disaster

 

[Storm Force]

You barley have enough thunders for your a it force .

So deploying the already out numbered paf to engage the Indian navy will be nighter for the pak air force and army .

As for thunders taking mig29K the Russian twin engines will win hands down .

 

[syed_yusuf]

You barley have enough thunders for your a it force .

So deploying the already out numbered paf to engage the Indian navy will be nighter for the pak air force and army .

As for thunders taking mig29K the Russian twin engines will win hands down .

so just be twin engine to win the fight?

 

[The Accountant]

You barley have enough thunders for your a it force .

So deploying the already out numbered paf to engage the Indian navy will be nighter for the pak air force and army .

As for thunders taking mig29K the Russian twin engines will win hands down .

Hahaha ... you are really living in a dream world ... if you have number aircrafts then you have larger area to defend as well ... by the way by which standard you find thunder incapable of handling mig29 ? Both have equally capable missiles ... radar of thunder as per specs is also impressive ... small and nimble thunder would be able to see fulcrum first and hence will be able to launch bvr earlier in the fight ...

Both are supported by awacs and data fusion from other assets ...

 

[Storm Force]

Hahaha ... you are really living in a dream world ... if you have number aircrafts then you have larger area to defend as well ... by the way by which standard you find thunder incapable of handling mig29 ? Both have equally capable missiles ... radar of thunder as per specs is also impressive ... small and nimble thunder would be able to see fulcrum first and hence will be able to launch bvr earlier in the fight ...

Both are supported by awacs and data fusion from other assets ...

Thread is about navy so I don't wish to divate too much.

Naval fighters globally are twin engines medium or large multi rolers

F18 hornets
J16 China
Rafale France
Mig 29 india

The reason the potential combat radius can be massive and unless you have landing deck nearby you will fall into the Sea.

So coming back to thunder

You say small and nimble . That is a huge weakness at sea .the range and load is too limited to be effective air asset for naval warfare

Indian tactics S drag the fighters out from shore they will.simply have go turn back after 300/400 miles out from shore

You need J11 type fighters. And at least 40.planes .

As for Thunder taking on mig29K

My money is on the mig every time

Twin engine equals more range more power power and speed and better cockpit IE
Zuk me has more range and engages more targets than the Chinease klj radars .
The mig has helmet display and hobs and more missles.

Finally the mig 29 will have carrier to land on when it. Needs to refuel or rearm .

The mig 29 will be sheilded by the massive radars on both the carriers and the guided missile destroyers which will cover a radius of 500km in tracking and have barak 8 Sam missles.

In contrast your thunders out at sea Five hundred miles away have no Sam Cover and limited fuel.

I think you get the picture

Thunder will not be effective naval platform against a huge Indian navy

Trying refueling at sea is dangerous when you a enemy size of three or four times your power

 

[open-source]

ls in Arabian Sea
China and Pakistan have held naval drills in the Arabian Sea, the Chinese military has said, with both sides looking to deepen interoperability between their navies in the Indian Ocean.

HIGHLIGHTS

• 1
  A Chinese naval fleet arrived in Karachi on Saturday.
  
  
• 2
  Chinese naval fleet will hold a joint drill with Pakistani Navy flotilla in Arabian Sea.
  
  
• 3
  The exercises with Pakistan come as China goes ahead with developing the Gwadar port.
  

China and Pakistan have held naval drills in the Arabian Sea, the Chinese military has said, with both sides looking to deepen interoperability between their navies in the Indian Ocean.

A Chinese naval fleet arrived in Karachi on Saturday. The People's Liberation Army (PLA) said it comprised the guided-missile destroyer Changchun, guided-missile frigate Jinzhou and supply ship Chaohu for a four-day visit.

"The Chinese naval fleet will also hold a joint drill with Pakistani Navy flotilla in the Arabian Sea of the northern Indian Ocean", the PLA said.

Five surface ships and two ship-borne helicopters of the two navies will join the drills on "formation movement, joint escort, helicopter landing on each other's ships, as well as joint air defence".

CHINA's SHIPS, SUBMARINES VISITING KARACHI FREQUENTLY

China's ships and submarines have been visiting Karachi with increasing frequency. Chinese officials insist that the purpose of the frequent passages of their ships and submarines through the Arabian Sea was to boost capacity for escort missions aimed at anti-piracy in the Gulf of Aden, although experts have questioned this rationale considering that submarines have little operational use for anti-piracy operations.

The exercises with Pakistan come as China goes ahead with developing the Gwadar port that it has been managing on the Arabian Sea, part of its China Pakistan Economic Corridor plan.

Karachi is, for now, a crucial lynchpin for Chinese submarines in the Indian Ocean, with Sri Lanka in the past two years declining Chinese requests for port calls after India voiced its concern when the previous Rajapaksa government gave Beijing the green light.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...ry-arabian-sea-ships-submarines/1/979067.html

 

[The Accountant]

Thread is about navy so I don't wish to divate too much.

Naval fighters globally are twin engines medium or large multi rolers

F18 hornets
J16 China
Rafale France
Mig 29 india

The reason the potential combat radius can be massive and unless you have landing deck nearby you will fall into the Sea.

So coming back to thunder

You say small and nimble . That is a huge weakness at sea .the range and load is too limited to be effective air asset for naval warfare

Indian tactics S drag the fighters out from shore they will.simply have go turn back after 300/400 miles out from shore

You need J11 type fighters. And at least 40.planes .

As for Thunder taking on mig29K

My money is on the mig every time

Twin engine equals more range more power power and speed and better cockpit IE
Zuk me has more range and engages more targets than the Chinease klj radars .
The mig has helmet display and hobs and more missles.

Finally the mig 29 will have carrier to land on when it. Needs to refuel or rearm .

The mig 29 will be sheilded by the massive radars on both the carriers and the guided missile destroyers which will cover a radius of 500km in tracking and have barak 8 Sam missles.

In contrast your thunders out at sea Five hundred miles away have no Sam Cover and limited fuel.

I think you get the picture

Thunder will not be effective naval platform against a huge Indian navy

Trying refueling at sea is dangerous when you a enemy size of three or four times your power

Bro you forgot many of the strategic of Pakistan has ... Let me get that to you:

1) Pakistan coast line and EEZ is much smaller to defend .. You are talking about 500 km away ... thunder has combat radius of 1300 km plus which is more than enough to cover the area to be defended ...

2) War fighting is not hide and seak that you come to attack and if interception aircrafts arrive you go back ...

3) Most importantly Pakistan key traffic in wartime i.e. oil and ammunition has to come from west i.e. away from India and Gawadar being operational it will be easy for Pakistan to shift its operations away from harm area in Karachi to Gawadar ... so your task to attack Pakistan commercial activity will be far away from your reach on the contrary your oil will be coming from our area of operation so for us threatening you is very easy ...

4) regarding aircraft carrier ... it doesn't matter again ... For India aircraft carrier is required as it has a vast coast and has too much naval involvement, therefore, they need to move their base as per operational requirements ... For Pakistan coastline to defend is much more easier ... they need to have few bases already protected with SAM systems so it doesn't make any difference ...

5) Kindly note that CBG of India will remain at bay from Pakistan as it is a good asset but also a big risk as well ... let suppose if one saturated attack from capable missiles CM400AKG gets successful and PAF succesfully suspends the flight operations then defending aircrafts and carrier itself will be a liablity as it is a huge investment ...

So no one in it sane mind will put aircraft carrier close to enemy territory ...

JF17 small size is on purpose ... World is using twin engine and bigger aircraft as naval aircraft as they are required to go away from their respective carriers so that they can attack while keeping carriers away from harms way ... I Pakistan navy job of air arm is to protect coast and not the attack as naval attack task is assigned to submerged assets ... i.e. submarrines ...

JF17 thunder is well thought strategy and tactics ... it suits Pakistan ... small nimble aircrafts that can be put in numbers so that we can have multiple sorties whereas for enhanced air patrolling requirement air refuelling is their ...

Remember in defending role intruding aircraft will also face threat from ship based SAMs of PN

 

[Fledgingwings]

No exceptions when it comes to national security and defence.

 

[S.Y.A]

I agree but I think the need of equipping navy is now being addressed .. With Chinese subs our main strike and trump card is underwater assets whereas we are aquiring small frigrates with effective anti arm wing ... last but not the least now strike role or air defense of navy is being transferred to thunders which are generation ahead of mirrages ... Previously mirrages were being used for strikes whereas f7s were for interception role but now with thunders air support of navy is much more flexible and modernize ... infact we can now take on mig 29 thorugh thunder without any fear ...

The area I am worried about if air force we still do not have credible information that we are going for early induction of 5th generation or are we buying off the shelf 4.5 generation ... any delay in such decision will be disaster

heavily armed frigates/destroyers are needed, F22Ps are crap(only point defence system), the corvettes from Turkey are crap too(again only point defence system), we need something like the Formidable class frigate that Singapore's navy has. Looks like the navy has learned nothing whatsoever, or the navy's admin's thinking is still stuck in the 20th century. in any war, PN's surface fleet will not last more than a week. Hell, we have got only 4 new ships(F22Ps), and as i said earlier, they are crap. After all the hue and cry the Alamgir was not modernized(no GENESIS upgrade as claimed by some members here) instead the missiles from the decommissioned Badr were installed on it.

No significant offensive armament, and utterly crap air defence systems on all of our ships, one would think that they would go for something with a proper anti air warfare capability and what do they express an interest in? Milgem corvettes. having nothing but short range air defence, good for replacing type-21s, but they will add nothing to PN's capabilities.

Plus, we have no idea whether the Chinese subs' capabilities(stealth, sensors, range, armament, combat management systems etc.) will at least match the Scorpene's or not.

 

[SabzShaheen]

Can't seem to find anything on the topic from a credible news source. I guess we'll just have to wait...

EDIT: After much bother, I've found something which the original post may be referring to:

Chinese Navy task group concludes Pakistan visit

ISLAMABAD:

A four-day port call and training visit of Chinese People’s Liberation Army-Navy (PLAN) to Pakistan concluded here on Wednesday. Three Chinese Navy warships Changchun, Jingzhou and Chaohu were part of this task group under mission commander Rear Admiral Shen Hao, Deputy Commander East Sea Fleet.


During stay at Karachi, the officers and men of the visiting ships held professional discussions and interactions with counterparts from Pakistan Navy on subjects of mutual interests.

Three Chinese naval ships arrive in Karachi

Chief of the Naval Staff Admiral Muhammad Zakaullah also visited PLAN ships and was accorded warm welcome upon arrival. The mission commander of Chinese Navy, Rear Admiral Shen Hao, called on senior officials of Pakistan Navy and civilian dignitaries.

In tandem, operational training activities, joint interactive sessions, table top discussions on professional topics and social events were also arranged between the officers and men of two navies.

At the end of the visit, a Passage Exercise (PASSEX) was conducted in the North Arabian Sea between Pakistan Navy Flotilla and PLAN task group to enhance interoperability between the two navies. During the exercise the platforms of both the navies performed tactical maneuvers and boarding as well as Go Fast drills. Different serials of Air Defence exercise and Anti-Ship Missile Defence Exercise were also concluded.

Chinese naval commander appreciates PN for collaborative security in Indian Ocean

The visit of PLA (Navy) Task Group is expected to further strengthen the time-tested friendship of China and Pakistan besides enhancing mutual collaboration and cooperation between the two navies.


Source: https://tribune.com.pk/story/1435909/chinese-navy-task-group-concludes-pakistan-visit/

Who knows...?

 

[TOPGUN]

Very good news, but nothing new its normal practice plus the indian ocean doesn't belong to india its a open sea /. open ocean owned by none period.

 

[BetterPakistan]

Long Live Pak-China friendship.

 

[khanasifm]

heavily armed frigates/destroyers are needed, F22Ps are crap(only point defence system), the corvettes from Turkey are crap too(again only point defence system), we need something like the Formidable class frigate that Singapore's navy has. Looks like the navy has learned nothing whatsoever, or the navy's admin's thinking is still stuck in the 20th century. in any war, PN's surface fleet will not last more than a week. Hell, we have got only 4 new ships(F22Ps), and as i said earlier, they are crap. After all the hue and cry the Alamgir was not modernized(no GENESIS upgrade as claimed by some members here) instead the missiles from the decommissioned Badr were installed on it.

No significant offensive armament, and utterly crap air defence systems on all of our ships, one would think that they would go for something with a proper anti air warfare capability and what do they express an interest in? Milgem corvettes. having nothing but short range air defence, good for replacing type-21s, but they will add nothing to PN's capabilities.

Plus, we have no idea whether the Chinese subs' capabilities(stealth, sensors, range, armament, combat management systems etc.) will at least match the Scorpene's or not.

Which navy has you served in? Pn, USN, royal ?? Or which Defense company have you worked for ? BAE, Northrop, dcn, ??

I am just curious what's the basis of your statements
V/r

 

[S.Y.A]

I am just curious what's the basis of your statements

common sense