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Pakistan central bank will no longer finance government deficit

Expulsion of PMLN, PPP led mafia from power corridors


So don't run away to IMF with a begging bowl after nearly bankrupting the country 21 times


There won't be. PMLN, PPP mafias are never coming back to power.



Hahaha. US, Europe, Australia are developed countries. Their monetary easing doesn't affect their financial situation unlike Pakistan.


You are such an idiot if you think excessive money printing, monetizing govt debt won't cause hyper inflation in Pakistan.


Bravo, import led growth by previous regimes nearly bankrupted Pakistan.
IMF is the last resort when country is nearly bankrupted through import led growth and quantitative easing model.


Developed countries have a demand side problem not supply side problem. You being a fool cannot understand that for Pakistan the problem is opposite, so your Western solution won't work here.

You are nothing but a PTI troll with an agenda to propagate the PTI narrative. Your entire response is laced with political bias. It has been a displeasure talking with you.

@jaibi per new forum rules I would like to flag this guy as being rude, advancing the agenda of a certain party, and misinterpreting others through a political lens. His very existence on the forum is irrelevant.
 
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it seems our central bank has lost independence and control over monetary policy and has gone completely in hands of foreign powers
 
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No sir, you are scratching the surface only ... Slowing down of economy is just the symptom, why it is happening is the real issue.

Again this slow down of economy was induced by government to reduce the aggregate demand. Our demand was high but production capacity was very low. Ok for the sake of argument if we start quantitative easing then people have excess cash, what product are they going to buy ? Pakistani manufactured products or imported Chinese products?

The government is working on a strategy which is tough for short and medium term but suerly is going to benefit in long run. Our textile and cement sectors are already closed to full capacity. With the increased in dollar rates imports are expensive therefore local substitutes are now appearing in the market. Sooner or later inflation will be down and these local products will establish local distribution chains which will benefit the economy.

When you limit your view point to a narrow area, there comes a point when people wonder whether you are propagating a propaganda. Since I know you better, I understand that is not the case. But you are selectively addressing the problem here.

There are many things that are wrong with Pakistani economy today. There is macro-economic mismanagement, there is financial corruption and crime, and there are micro-economic problems. We need to look at a holistic solution to bring Pakistan out of these problems.

If you read my earlier posts, I have already said that we have a problem of money concentrated in a few hands. This small percentage of privileged people drive the demand based economy. Whereas, high interest rates penalize the entire country. Interest rates aren't the only tool available to control demand side expansion. There are import duties, sales taxes etc. and I think Asad Umar did a very good job with them.

But let us not disgress from the discussion. Remember the point I am making. With money printing in the hands of an IMF agent, and government revenue being used to pay IMF debt, where government spends money will soon be dictated by IMF. This is what I am pointing out as treason to Pakistan's vested interests.
 
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You are nothing but a PTI troll with an agenda to propagate the PTI narrative. Your entire response is laced with political bias. It has been a displeasure talking with you.

@jaibi per new forum rules I would like to flag this guy as being rude, advancing the agenda of a certain party, and misinterpreting others through a political lens. His very existence on the forum is irrelevant.
My agenda is to expose PMLN trolls like you who continuously bash PTI-led govt with your half baked lies and truths. I will keep exposing you all as long this govt is in place.

it seems our central bank has lost independence and control over monetary policy and has gone completely in hands of foreign powers
It seems like our central bank has lost independence the first time it went to IMF with a begging bowl back in 1958.

But let us not disgress from the discussion. Remember the point I am making. With money printing in the hands of an IMF agent, and government revenue being used to pay IMF debt, where government spends money will soon be dictated by IMF. This is what I am pointing out as treason to Pakistan's vested interests.
Hahaha. First you go to IMF with a begging bowl for the 22nd time to avoid default. And then you cry me the river why you must pay back the debts to IMF and other creditors? Are you for real?
 
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My agenda is to expose PMLN trolls like you who continuously bash PTI-led govt with your half baked lies and truths. I will keep exposing you all as long this govt is in place.


It seems like our central bank has lost independence the first time it went to IMF with a begging bowl back in 1958.


Hahaha. First you go to IMF with a begging bowl for the 22nd time to avoid default. And then you cry me the river why you must pay back the debts to IMF and other creditors? Are you for real?

Ask Imran Khan why he went to IMF. I didn't advise him to do so. And you should realize that completely apolitical people are also bashing PTI today. Wake up and smell the coffee.
 
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This is what I am pointing out as treason to Pakistan's vested interests.
No the treason would be to to mismanage country's finances and economy so badly that it has to go back to IMF again and again, and not once try to stay on its own feet. Your entire argument is BS!

Ask Imran Khan why he went to IMF. I didn't advise him to do so.
This the reason why Imran Khan went to IMF. Enjoy
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ESSXCQeX0AUfyOr.jpg
 
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No the treason would be to to mismanage country's finances and economy so badly that it has to go back to IMF again and again, and not once try to stay on its own feet. Your entire argument is BS!


This the reason why Imran Khan went to IMF. Enjoy
View attachment 611632
View attachment 611631

OK, thank you for that. Now tell me, when Pakistani negotiators were ironing out the terms of the deal with IMF, why did Imran Khan suddenly and unconditionally capitulate to every single IMF demand? Why weren't negotiators given more authority to extract more favorable terms?
 
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OK, thank you for that. Now tell me, when Pakistani negotiators were ironing out the terms of the deal with IMF, why did Imran Khan suddenly and unconditionally capitulate to every single IMF demand? Why weren't negotiators given more authority to extract more favorable terms?
IMF is not there to give you "favors". It is not your friend. IMF's mandate is to help out nearly bankrupt nations from complete bankruptcy. It is up to the nation to decide if it wishes to get help, and then stand up on its own feet. Or just use the help for cosmetic favors (as it happened in the past 21 times!) and then after a few years come back to IMF with another begging bowl.
 
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IMF is not there to give you "favors". It is not your friend. IMF's mandate is to help out nearly bankrupt nations from complete bankruptcy. It is up to the nation to decide if it wishes to get help, and then stand up on its own feet. Or just use the help for cosmetic favors (as it happened in the past 21 times!) and then after a few years come back to IMF with another begging bowl.

No one is asking for favors. Negotiations are done to safeguard one's own interests. To capitulate unconditionally to an unfriendly entity (by your own admission) is treason to Pakistan's vested interests.

And just to make sure everyone understands this, the negotiations are a valid part of the process and nations have negotiated with IMF to concede leeway, read below. So why didn't Imran Khan follow the Argentinian example? This isn't ancient history, this is March 2020.

https://wtvbam.com/news/articles/20...he-fiscal-hook/990174/?refer-section=business
BUENOS AIRES (Reuters) - A new program being discussed by Argentina and its biggest lender, the International Monetary Fund, could set up private bondholders for heavy losses without requiring the spending cuts needed to make the country solvent, investors say.

Argentina and the IMF announced last month they would start Article IV consultations - allowing the Fund to inspect Argentina's accounts - as a stepping stone to a possible new program that would replace a defunct $57 billion loan agreement struck by the previous government in 2018.

An IMF technical team is due in Buenos Aires this week to meet with economy ministry officials and review the left-leaning government's economic plans.

The negotiations with the Fund are part of a broader restructuring of about $100 billion in debt that Argentina's government says it cannot pay unless given time to revive stalled economic growth.

Analysts and bondholders said discussions on a new program between President Alberto Fernandez's government and the Fund are better than the alternative of having Argentina unilaterally impose terms without IMF feedback.

But so far, the Fund has not challenged Argentina's refusal to impose fiscal austerity on an economy in recession.

That is stirring unease among investors - who are hoping the new program will include measures to rein in spending - as they brace for hefty "haircuts," or reductions in principal payments on their bonds.

"Our view is that the capacity for Argentina to service its debt is a lot higher than what the government claims and they should be aiming for a higher fiscal surplus," said Steffen Reichold, portfolio manager at ‎Stone Harbor Investment Partners, which holds some Argentine debt.

"Many people have raised this point. We've raised it to IMF. This will be a key issue in the discussions once Argentina makes its first offer," he said.

Economy Minister Martin Guzman has stressed two points in talks with the IMF and comments to Congress: the government, in office since December, will not keep paying debts it considers unsustainable and fiscal austerity would only hinder Argentina's repayment capacity by worsening the economy.

Guzman insists that growth, not fiscal surpluses, should be first on the agenda as he tries to steer Latin America's third-biggest economy toward solvency. Wall Street, aware of Argentina's decades-long history of financial mismanagement, wants to see close IMF supervision.

"The market would like to see the Fund use its institutional credibility and expertise to encourage the authorities to strengthen their fiscal stance and embrace structural reforms," said Goldman Sachs emerging markets analyst Alberto Ramos.

"But it seems the IMF will not do that. The Fund seems happy with Argentina's lack of commitment to significantly improve the medium-term fiscal picture and deal with its perennial fiscal imbalances," Ramos said.

'MEANINGFUL CONTRIBUTION'

The last IMF mission to Argentina ended on Feb. 19. At that time, the Fund said Argentina's debt situation was unsustainable and urged Buenos Aires to draft a definitive plan to restore debt sustainability, including a "meaningful contribution from private creditors."

President Fernandez - initially deeply skeptical about continued involvement with the IMF - has set a March 31 deadline to deal with the country's public debt, and the Economy Ministry has published a timeline for the process.

Some analysts, however, doubt the deadline is realistic.

"It's a fantasy," said Mariano Marco del Pont, chief of trading at Silver Cloud Advisors in Buenos Aires.

Carlos de Sousa, lead emerging markets economist at Oxford Economics, said it was unlikely Argentina and the IMF would agree on a new program before the year ends.

"IMF loan maturities don't start coming due until the second half of 2021, so there's no rush to agree on a new program," De Sousa told Reuters.

The last time Argentine did a big bond restructuring was in 2005 and 2010. That deal, done without the IMF's endorsement, resulted in years of lawsuits that kept the country in default until 2016. Guzman has said he wants to avoid that this time around by striking a collaborative agreement with holders.

It will not be easy. Bond prices are already showing expectations of a 40% to 50% haircut, depending on bond maturity and whether the debt is governed by local law, Marco del Pont said.

The big question, analysts said, is whether the IMF will sign off of on a program that contains no push to cut spending in order to ensure the government's ability to repay its debts.

"The IMF will ask for tougher measures for Argentina and the government should take them if it wants the fund's support," Marco del Pont said.

"There is a great uncertainty and the clock is ticking," he said. "I would be very cautious."
 
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No one is asking for favors. Negotiations are done to safeguard one's own interests. To capitulate unconditionally to an unfriendly entity (by your own admission) is treason to Pakistan's vested interests.

And just to make sure everyone understands this, the negotiations are a valid part of the process and nations have negotiated with IMF to concede leeway, read below. So why didn't Imran Khan follow the Argentinian example? This isn't ancient history, this is March 2020.
Lol. You can't compare Pakistan with Argentine. Argentine has been in default for years. They have no money left to pay their debts anyway, so it doesn't matter to them what IMF wants.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_debt_restructuring
 
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Lol. You can't compare Pakistan with Argentine. Argentine has been in default for years. They have no money left to pay their debts anyway, so it doesn't matter to them what IMF wants.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_debt_restructuring

Comprehension problem detected. They are negotiating with IMF to agree to their own terms and are refusing to actually pay debts to a degree that can cause problems in economic recovery. Whereas investors are saying they have the capacity to pay more than they claim. Imran Khan is following foreign diktats to enslave Pakistan to their terms.
 
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Comprehension problem detected. They are negotiating with IMF to agree to their own terms and are refusing to actually pay debts to a degree that can cause problems in economic recovery. Whereas investors are saying they have the capacity to pay more than they claim. Imran Khan is following foreign diktats to enslave Pakistan to their terms.
Argentine like Pakistan got help from IMF many times, and like Pakistan each time refused to follow IMF dictates, leading to one begging bowl after another since the 80's. IMF is not the enemy, it is the govts that refuse to do painful structural reforms that would eventually end the begging bowl altogether.
Remember India was near default back in the early 90's. It went to IMF once, and since then didn't need it because it did the structural reforms that eventually led to export-based growth.
 
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Argentine like Pakistan got help from IMF many times, and like Pakistan each time refused to follow IMF dictates, leading to one begging bowl after another since the 80's. IMF is not the enemy, it is the govts that refuse to do painful structural reforms that would eventually end the begging bowl altogether.
Remember India was near default back in the early 90's. It went to IMF once, and since then didn't need it because it did the structural reforms that eventually led to export-based growth.

Structural reforms are a tool, that can be used for betterment or sabotage. Today, IMF is using these reforms to sabotage Pakistan's freedom and integrity and Imran Khan is making it possible for them to do so.
 
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Structural reforms are a tool, that can be used for betterment or sabotage. Today, IMF is using these reforms to sabotage Pakistan's freedom and integrity and Imran Khan is making it possible for them to do so.
For a nearly bankrupt country like Pakistan, betterment won't happen over night. It will take years if the correct measures are taken today.
 
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When you limit your view point to a narrow area, there comes a point when people wonder whether you are propagating a propaganda. Since I know you better, I understand that is not the case. But you are selectively addressing the problem here.

There are many things that are wrong with Pakistani economy today. There is macro-economic mismanagement, there is financial corruption and crime, and there are micro-economic problems. We need to look at a holistic solution to bring Pakistan out of these problems.

If you read my earlier posts, I have already said that we have a problem of money concentrated in a few hands. This small percentage of privileged people drive the demand based economy. Whereas, high interest rates penalize the entire country. Interest rates aren't the only tool available to control demand side expansion. There are import duties, sales taxes etc. and I think Asad Umar did a very good job with them.

But let us not disgress from the discussion. Remember the point I am making. With money printing in the hands of an IMF agent, and government revenue being used to pay IMF debt, where government spends money will soon be dictated by IMF. This is what I am pointing out as treason to Pakistan's vested interests.

On this post i can agree on most of the points with little careful calling raza bakir simply an agent.

Anyways as this is subjective and everyone can have its own point of view about intentions of a single individual. So lets park this discussion about raza bakir for now.

Regarding tools of monetary policy i agree from your point but interest is the biggest tool and should not be in double digits. I am hopeful that by the end of this financial year i.e. till june interest will start declining.

On asad umar performance. I was little disappointed as he did not took any of the required drastic steps. Duty sttucture was revised by hafeez not by him. He did record money printing and deficit financing which created a lot of pressure on rupee to further depreciate.

My point of view is that our problems lies at micro economic level and not on macro economic level whereas our policies are focussed on maceo policy matters only.

What are our real probelms?

Complex legislativve structure.
Lack of standrization of the products with international quality standard.
Lack of skilled labor.
Lack ofninnovation.
Miss use of capital in property market rather than investments.
Policy failure to facilitate ttade over manufacturing
 
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