Pakistan can take Laddakh in few days: Samson

[Joe Shearer]

To avoid the possibility that what might appear to be satisficing in the present may not be so in the future. It is this very approach that has led to past leaders letting go of opportunities because they believed they had reached the minimal level necessary only for the problems and the ensuing cycle to restart.

And what makes you think that maximising will eliminate the problem? Assuming from a moment that your heroic campaign to reverse the defeat of Prithviraj Chauhan is successful, what next? Are you proposing the elimination of all living Pakistanis? Kill the men and enslave the women?

Striking postures on paper is one thing, implementing those threats is another.

On an off note - This attitude of satisficing is almost a cultural attribute of India raised Indians. No job is completed to the end with perfection and diligence while catering to future needs. The minimal necessary effort is put in with optimism that 'things will work out'.

It is this behaviour that I abhor.

Ah, an admirer of Kallicharan, I see.

Exactly. I was about to show him this but I didn't have the energy to type it out. I mean one would have to be blind to think India does not have its hands in the Balochistan issue. Mama Qadeer ring a bell anyone? Brahamdagh Bugti, Hyrbayar Marri maybe? All under Indian media patronage.

Now hold on a minute.

So India harbours known Baloch criminals. What does that imply? Or prove?

Indian media patronage? Meaning what? That the Times of India is blowing up the flames of Baloch nationalism? That NDTV is Pakistani public enemy #1?

Perhaps it is mischievous, even wicked, but in no case does it prove anything beyond that. Any more than the notorious gangster resident in Clifton proved that Pakistan was responsible for the infamous Bombay bomb blasts.

And that was not 'whataboutery', that was by way of example.

 

[Cliftonite]

And what makes you think that maximising will eliminate the problem? Assuming from a moment that your heroic campaign to reverse the defeat of Prithviraj Chauhan is successful, what next? Are you proposing the elimination of all living Pakistanis? Kill the men and enslave the women?

Striking postures on paper is one thing, implementing those threats is another.



Ah, an admirer of Kallicharan, I see.



Now hold on a minute.

So India harbours known Baloch criminals. What does that imply? Or prove?

Indian media patronage? Meaning what? That the Times of India is blowing up the flames of Baloch nationalism? That NDTV is Pakistani public enemy #1?

Perhaps it is mischievous, even wicked, but in no case does it prove anything beyond that. Any more than the notorious gangster resident in Clifton proved that Pakistan was responsible for the infamous Bombay bomb blasts.

And that was not 'whataboutery', that was by way of example.

I'm not complaining. We are enemies (as countries) and that's what enemies do. I'm just saying that denying India's hand in the Balochistan issue is disingenuous.

 

[Robbie]

And what makes you think that maximising will eliminate the problem? Assuming from a moment that your heroic campaign to reverse the defeat of Prithviraj Chauhan is successful, what next? Are you proposing the elimination of all living Pakistanis? Kill the men and enslave the women?

Striking postures on paper is one thing, implementing those threats is another.

How does Prithviraj Chauhan come into this discussion? I get the feeling you're trying to (maybe subconsciously?) move this conversation to 'a slaughter or commit suicide' Dharma vs Muslim kind of conversation. If so, I am not interested and request a leave of this conversation.

My point is very straight forward. The direction that Pakistan and India are going in, is very favourable, even if Pakistan has military capability that is close to India's. This needs to continue for another few decades. And GoI must make sure Pakistani military stays as the default if not dejure ruler of Pakistan.

This will give GoI more choices to execute whatever plan they have for Pakistan. What they choose then is up to them but it should be comprehensive. What I do not support is satisficing. All it does is delay the problem for the next generation so that the problems rise again and the cycle restarts.

Ah, an admirer of Kallicharan, I see.

I apologise for my ignorance. I don't know who s/he is. I personally have a distaste of some Indian cultural traits. That includes satisficing. Fortunately, I see the younger generation displays much less of this trait than their parents do. They are relatively more thorough, more aggressive, and far more audacious than their predecessors. I like the direction the younger India is taking.

 

[The Maverick]

JESUS WEPT.

Another thread about Pakistan starting a war to liberate Ladakh.

I thought your claim was indian Kashmir .

AT THIS RATE PAKISTAN will have to fight China cause they want Ladakh too.

GUYS I know your guys are jumping on the chinease bandwagon.

I get it ……. you see their GDP and military and you think this is a done deal.

BUT the bad news AS MUCH AS you like to depict india as a poor impoverished incompetent state incapable of decision making or defending its borders its fairly strong nation.

infact

4th largest military on the planet
5th largest GDP and forex reserves of half trillion $$$$$
politically strategically well connected ie Usa Israel France Russia etc.

FIGHTING IN MOUNTAINS advanced armour is useless whats needed is troops artillery ammo and air power.

china has 70% of its military in EAST . india can sustain one month war with china & with Pakistan.

IF needed they have the funds for billions dollars of resupply AND plenty countries to make money

so don't count your chickens just yet

 

[VCheng]

India did try that in Afghanistan against us. Our military never had the acumen to even consider such a possibility. India is full of fifth columns, waiting to be exploited. But like they say na, fauj ki aqal ghutno mein hoti hai. Humare paas ek behtareen asset tha East Pakistan ki shakal mein, to bleed India's north east through proxies but woh bhi humaray ch**tiyon ne gawa diya. Our army only knows the way of guns.

Sometimes it is more beneficial to maintain a stalemate than win outright victory.

 

[SecularNationalist]

so declare a war against india. go and fight and kill like a soldier and die with grace.who is stopping you. but if kashmiri women have been raped by indians would you like to rape indian women once you capture them ? if yes then you dont know humanity and islam.

Hey listen numpty jacka$$ no one here approved rape for a rape.Since you have a complete authority over Islam and humanity as compared to other kuffar here then you should know staying silent and let the zulm happen infront of you is also not Islam and humanity.

 

[SQ8]

Yes, but all I have to marshal against the hordes clamouring for immediate victory is a knowledge of human nature and how to undermine it. If you take that away, if you tear away my mask, what is left? Just a deer trapped in the headlights and equally vulnerable to khaki chaddi and to green.

On the general argument, I can only happily agree that all that happens is due to the weakness of the 'mark', nothing to do with the skill of the sharp. With far less smugness, I will also, reluctantly, point out that Indian interference and even intent to interfere is so inept that you have only your own weaknesses to fear. I am afraid the difference between what Indian agencies are trying to do during this very late recovery from their neutering* by Manmohan Singh and what is being done to Indian interests in Kashmir is the difference between amateur and professional.

*That this delicate operation can be reversed is yet to be proven.



PS: I note with great satisfaction that only the combination ASROC is left for use.



Balochistan?

Come off it, this about a country that parades Tamilians as Baloch, that has Baloch leaders walking in and out Government of India buildings on camera, according to the persons with possession of the pictures, that provides Baloch leaders with faked passport forms, in order to 'prove' later that we wanted to give ourselves up, and therefore didn't use regular passport forms.

I do wholeheartedly agree that Indian interference barring the Yadav fellow (whose status as a daring spy, unwitting nincumpoop or poor businessman is different for each countries narrative) is bumbling, it is effective enough for this humble human to know that it was traced Indian funding that ended the life of a close family member and childhood playmate recently - and that such scars aren’t forgiven or forgotten easily.

Yes, but all I have to marshal against the hordes clamouring for immediate victory is a knowledge of human nature and how to undermine it. If you take that away, if you tear away my mask, what is left? Just a deer trapped in the headlights and equally vulnerable to khaki chaddi and to green.

On the general argument, I can only happily agree that all that happens is due to the weakness of the 'mark', nothing to do with the skill of the sharp. With far less smugness, I will also, reluctantly, point out that Indian interference and even intent to interfere is so inept that you have only your own weaknesses to fear. I am afraid the difference between what Indian agencies are trying to do during this very late recovery from their neutering* by Manmohan Singh and what is being done to Indian interests in Kashmir is the difference between amateur and professional.

*That this delicate operation can be reversed is yet to be proven.



PS: I note with great satisfaction that only the combination ASROC is left for use.



Balochistan?

Come off it, this about a country that parades Tamilians as Baloch, that has Baloch leaders walking in and out Government of India buildings on camera, according to the persons with possession of the pictures, that provides Baloch leaders with faked passport forms, in order to 'prove' later that we wanted to give ourselves up, and therefore didn't use regular passport forms.

As I realized on PDF “Those who walk the middle of the road, get hit from both sides” - and this being a desi road with no respect for traffic laws or lanes; you are just committing Mental suicide.

Whilst I in no way advocate hypocrisy, I do suggest nuancing the message to the respective audience knowing fully that many others read what you type than just the quoted. We have a more private lounge for the honest conversations.

But then you have twice my years in life experience so I would defer the better judgement to you. I have just taken queues from my professional life (Which involves sitting between Engineering and Sales) and moulded them here.

So yes, my salesman said that device X will communicate with the outside world without even having the battery installed and I agree with him.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
It could do that on AC power and while we don’t have that functionality available right now it is part of our development roadmap now that you mentioned it. Btw have you seen feature Y , it can provide you .........

 

[doorstar]

AT THIS RATE PAKISTAN will have to fight China cause they want Ladakh too.

Chinese do not want Kagil or siachin, just Leh and Aksiachin. likewise Pakistanese don't want Chinese areas only GB ones (+ jammu and the valley of Kashmir)

 

[Mk-313]

Lol if India truely won all wars Pakistan wont exist today and I dont have extra brain to argue with sanghis who believe they are so superior but as usual beaten like dog.

if I am right, half of Pakistan doesn't exist today. I think it exist as Bangladesh. the dude is right unless u have the money to fight and sustain the war. don't fight a war

 

[Thorough Pro]

we did.
it was the civilian government that could not take the diplomatic pressure.
we can do it again militarily anytime we want.

Itna asan hota to kargil na le lia hota.

 

[RedHulk]

One thing is clear from Laddakh episode is that China is not going anywhere anytime soon. They put a great deal in OBOR and anything that comes in there way will have to pay the price. They didnt come to laddakh out of blue. They along with Russia have been advocating Pakistan for restraint against India. Thats what Pakistan been doing for last 2 years. But recent attacks on CPEC by India through proxies specially in Baluchistan have tested their limit when their Engineers being killed. Also indian desire to annex Gilgit from Pakistan to sabotage CPEC. So right now Dragon have put its paw on the neck of chicken to stop it from eating neighbors grain. China will keep putting this pressure unless India stop it.
Moreover India have been so obsessed with Pakistan that they never thought they would confront China in reality. That possibility is now becoming reality as China is moving it population to west to revive the old silk route. From now on there will be permanent presence of large force in Tibet and Xinjiang to protect its interest.
Now India have two permanent fronts open for conflict. India is 15 years behind China and the dream of Akhand bharat is in jeopardy. If India don't leave this dream it might have to faces consequences. Now in backdoor diplomacy India have to convince China it won't create trouble for him otherwise China will be ready to give cover to Pakistan to enter in Kashmir or even try to annex Assam.

I think you and I have had this discussion before. You conveniently discount Pakistan using non-state actors to Kashmir in 1947. I don't.

Your preferred history might start with Muktis, mine starts right at 1947.


What matters is the defence budget and the relative one at that. 'Number one importer' is a good sound byte but means nothing as, in reality, it's just a manifestation of the failure of domestic industry.

You are also incorrect that India and Pakistan spend roughly the same as a % of their GDP for defense needs even before the WoT. Pakistan has been grossly outspending India as a % of defence budget for many decades.

Please take a moment to look through the SIPRI defence database to clear any misconceptions. Pakistan spent 6.8% of its GDP in 1988 while India spent 3.7%. We can go over all the historical data if you want.

Source: https://www.sipri.org/sites/default/files/Data for all countries from 1988–2019 as a share of GDP.pdf

Once again, the primary objective or raison d'etre of India has not been to defeat Pakistan. There is no 'shah rag' that India needs. If that was the case, India would match or exceed what Pakistan spends to maintain or increase the military gap, not let it decrease.


I cannot speak for Pakistan as I am neither a citizen nor related to Pakistan. I can speak for India that moving forward economically is the primary agenda. However, India's defence expenditure as a %, is already one of the lower ones in the world and threat to India is from China. So defense expenditure can not be lowered regardless of what Pakistan does.

India does need to dramatically increase its skilling/educational and infrastructural capacity. Those are the biggest impediments to growth right now.

 

[Shahzaz ud din]

Looks like this ret. Pakistani general is out of mind. One thing is for sure Pakistan can't win a full scale war with India for sure. Let Pakistani puppets first support their economy rather than going for a all out war.
-0.4% GDP growth rate =LOSERS

What about -4.0%

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

Who is this day dreamer? To fight war you need weapons. First build economy to finance war.

Son he probably have had more service than your age. He was involved in sensitive matters and nuclear matters not only related to Pakistan but internationally when you were running around in chaddi calling upon mommy for feeders.
You are going to educate him? Who are you?
A random poster on pdf like me no better.
Shame on you calling a retired soldier a day dreamer.

 

[Joe Shearer]

How does Prithviraj Chauhan come into this discussion? I get the feeling you're trying to (maybe subconsciously?) move this conversation to 'a slaughter or commit suicide' Dharma vs Muslim kind of conversation. If so, I am not interested and request a leave of this conversation.

My point is very straight forward. The direction that Pakistan and India are going in, is very favourable, even if Pakistan has military capability that is close to India's. This needs to continue for another few decades. And GoI must make sure Pakistani military stays as the default if not dejure ruler of Pakistan.

This will give GoI more choices to execute whatever plan they have for Pakistan. What they choose then is up to them but it should be comprehensive. What I do not support is satisficing. All it does is delay the problem for the next generation so that the problems rise again and the cycle restarts.



I apologise for my ignorance. I don't know who s/he is. I personally have a distaste of some Indian cultural traits. That includes satisficing. Fortunately, I see the younger generation displays much less of this trait than their parents do. They are relatively more thorough, more aggressive, and far more audacious than their predecessors. I like the direction the younger India is taking.

I don't.

Where I do agree with you is that this is a pointless conversation.

Son he probably have had more service than your age. He was involved in sensitive matters and nuclear matters not only related to Pakistan but internationally when you were running around in chaddi calling upon mommy for feeders.
You are going to educate him? Who are you?
A random poster on pdf like me no better.
Shame on you calling a retired soldier a day dreamer.

I have known your hero for a decade or more, and was in conversation with him on other media in another name (my real life identity). He was involved in defining your country's nuclear policy, and was in the counsel of his seniors for some time. He was also a sanctimonious hypocrite, talking peace in conversation with Indians, and talking the reddest of war with his own countrymen; suggesting, even then, the most impractical and dangerous adventures, with no foundation in reality; defending the indefensible, and proposing the bizarre. As a side business was his constant refrain about the oppression of his own minority; this did not interfere with his Dr. Strangelove stances, or perhaps they were intertwined. The more hawkish he was, the more he could plead his special pleas.

So, son, speaking to you with one whose service matches your dauntless hero's, he needs, not education, but re-education. He was not a day dreamer; he was that spirit behind every military entrepreneur that assures the rash and those inclined to misadventure that thereby their place in history will be assured.

Before you sit in condescending comment on others, get your own bearings squared away first.

@The Accountant

I'm not complaining. We are enemies (as countries) and that's what enemies do. I'm just saying that denying India's hand in the Balochistan issue is disingenuous.

Your opinion.

The facts belie it, but when did facts come in the way of opinions?

we did.
it was the civilian government that could not take the diplomatic pressure.
we can do it again militarily anytime we want.

This has been disproved by your own sources so many times that the only wonder left is the persistence of individuals who keep repeating these fables about civil interference baulking thoroughly beaten military endeavours from snatching victory out of defeat.

It is something that affords a deep insight into a segment of the population that is willing to distort reality just as much as is needed, with no limits, to bring themselves comfort and solace in their having prevailed. Pathetic in a way, useful - in a clinical, humanity-distanced sense - in another.

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

I have known your hero for a decade or more, and was in conversation with him on other media in another name (my real life identity). He was involved in defining your country's nuclear policy, and was in the counsel of his seniors for some time. He was also a sanctimonious hypocrite, talking peace in conversation with Indians, and talking the reddest of war with his own countrymen; suggesting, even then, the most impractical and dangerous adventures, with no foundation in reality; defending the indefensible, and proposing the bizarre. As a side business was his constant refrain about the oppression of his own minority; this did not interfere with his Dr. Strangelove stances, or perhaps they were intertwined. The more hawkish he was, the more he could plead his special pleas.

So, son, speaking to you with one whose service matches your dauntless hero's, he needs, not education, but re-education. He was not a day dreamer; he was that spirit behind every military entrepreneur that assures the rash and those inclined to misadventure that thereby their place in history will be assured.

Before you sit in condescending comment on others, get your own bearings squared away first.

You and I don't share blood nor we share same history or role models.
You are an Indian enough said. What victory does your history have other than 1971? We(muslim) smashed you again every Pakistani tribe ruled over sub continent. You will never understand what its like to take a risk.
When Ruski's were in backyard we shoved them back to where they came from. So did Yanks you know it dude.
Your age your information your research your conversation your point of view are meaningless.
You are a part of that helpless bunch who is hostage in his own country. Why lecture me? I bet you can't say a word against Modi without being called traitor in your own home.
Now do you understand why we are tuned into 2 different channels. You are tuned into helpless bunch(may be good intentions) but can't make an inch of difference .
I believe in strength and belief on achieving whats unachievable and therfore my hero is Jinnah not Ghandi.
JINNAH STILL HERO
GHANDI DIED IN HIS OWN HOME BY HIS OWN BROTHER BY HIS OWN KIND
Who is short sighted and not in touch with reality.