Pakistan buys Chinese subs to counter India 'threats'

[SrNair]

you have oo many fantasies regarding your IN. Dream on. Keep it on Submarine please instead of bringing the entire naval fleet.

2 Scorpene will have AIP, not 5, detecting an AIP sub is no joke buddy, they are known as hunter killers for a reason. Having 9 AIPs, IN better watch its back.

It is not fantasy my friend.It is reality.6 Scorpene are ordered.And no one confirmed IN use Scorpenes without AIP.If DRDO cant provide AIP in time they may purchase French and no one cant rule out such a possible scenario.And if DRDO make success in that ,you can see all 6 subs with DRDO AIP.You told PN may have 6 or 7 within 2020.How the numbers rise up to 9.?
ASW corvettes and Poseidon P-8I are just a small portion of Indian Navy fleet.For PN it may an entire fleet .But for IN a navy with 2 CBG it is just a very small portion only.

 

[bolo]

And what if I told you Pakistan is an Indian ally in the long term ?

That is a possiblity. after all the difference between pakistanis and indians is religion. I'm probably the only one here who thinks tech transfer to Pakistan is a no no. Yes, we can build previous weapons for them, but no tech transfer.

I wonder if other Chinese members agree? @cirr, @Chinese-Dragon, @rott, @Martian2, @Shutter

 

[Dazzler]

It is not fantasy my friend.It is reality.6 Scorpene are ordered.And no one confirmed IN use Scorpenes without AIP.If DRDO cant provide AIP in time they may purchase French and no one cant rule out such a possible scenario.And if DRDO make success in that ,you can see all 6 subs with DRDO AIP.You told PN may have 6 or 7 within 2020.How the numbers rise up to 9.?
ASW corvettes and Poseidon P-8I are just a small portion of Indian Navy fleet.For PN it may an entire fleet .But for IN a navy with 2 CBG it is just a very small portion only.

total order is for 6 AIPs, 3 A-90Bs with AIP in service

3+6=?

also, out of total order, initially 2 Scorpenes will be fitted with AIP, check google for this. PN has 8 P-3C for ASW too but keep it submarine related and dont drift the thread into a fantasy parade.

 

[SrNair]

total order is for 6 AIPs, 3 A-90Bs with AIP in service

3+6=?

also, out of total order, initially 2 Scorpenes will be fitted with AIP, check google for this. PN has 8 P-3C for ASW too but keep it submarine related and dont drift the thread into a fantasy parade.

And there is lot of gap between P-3C and P-8i.We bought P-8i with hard cash.So it will be worth.Submarines will not take enemy subs alone.It is ASW warfare ,so all options will be in the table .A navy will use any asset in their arsenal to prevent Subs.
Indian Navy will always increase its submarines.After all countering Pakistan is just a small activity for IN at that time.
We increase our CBGs and submarines because we got a large Indian Ocean and stronger PLAN.Pakistan is a option only after that.
And due to present increase in the Sub accidents.India can see a large investment of Indian Navy in Submarine wings.Possibility of purchasing few more nuke subs or top speed construction of indigenous subs.Latter may happen because we already have indigenous sub nuke technology

 

[EyanKhan]

And what if I told you Pakistan is an Indian ally in the long term ?

Pakistan can never be an Indian ally until India cedes Kashmir to it , we can be on good terms but never an ally , even if we become educated and religious differences disappear Kashmir will always be a thorn in Indo-Pak relations . We won't give up on Kashmir and you won't give it to us!

 

[ziaulislam]

And there is lot of gap between P-3C and P-8i.We bought P-8i with hard cash.So it will be worth.Submarines will not take enemy subs alone.It is ASW warfare ,so all options will be in the table .A navy will use any asset in their arsenal to prevent Subs.
Indian Navy will always increase its submarines.After all countering Pakistan is just a small activity for IN at that time.
We increase our CBGs and submarines because we got a large Indian Ocean and stronger PLAN.Pakistan is a option only after that.
And due to present increase in the Sub accidents.India can see a large investment of Indian Navy in Submarine wings.Possibility of purchasing few more nuke subs or top speed construction of indigenous subs.Latter may happen because we already have indigenous sub nuke technology

well P8 has advantage of range and payload but P-3 orion are not bad either we brought them on hardcash too not free or coalition support fund!
india will be at disadvantage if it delays its order or pakistan gets the subs quicker but n longterm around 2030 india will be ahead.
AIP is great thing you increase your capability from a few days to weeks
india is floating another tender soon for 12 subs worth 12 billion dollars but considering they want them to be build locally dont expect that to materialize before 2023-25 once all six are built at best india will built all 6 scorp till 2022 if it remain on schedule

nuclear blastic missle would not be used to hunt other subs. it has completly differnt purpose

yes overall indian navy will have advantage due to her share size

 

[SrNair]

well P8 has advantage of range and payload but P-3 orion are not bad either we brought them on hardcash too not free or coalition support fund!
india will be at disadvantage if it delays its order or pakistan gets the subs quicker but n longterm around 2030 india will be ahead.
AIP is great thing you increase your capability from a few days to weeks
india is floating another tender soon for 12 subs worth 12 billion dollars but considering they want them to be build locally dont expect that to materialize before 2023-25 once all six are built at best india will built all 6 scorp till 2022 if it remain on schedule

nuclear blastic missle would not be used to hunt other subs. it has completly differnt purpose

yes overall indian navy will have advantage due to her share size

You are right man.But frequency of Sub accident in India may cause massive investment in Subs purchasing and Scorpenes construction is in top speed
China is new comer in construction of export version Subs .Hope they can keep up with our nuke Subs.

 

[ziaulislam]

your scorp sub are already at super speed.
atleast the time table is, that is to add one sub every year.
however in my opinion it will be very difficult for india to acheive target of 6 scorp by 2023 as initial date was 2012 then delayed to 2014 then 2015 and now end of 2016!

 

[SrNair]

your scorp sub are already at super speed.
atleast the time table is, that is to add one sub every year.
however in my opinion it will be very difficult for india to acheive target of 6 scorp by 2023 as initial date was 2012 then delayed to 2014 then 2015 and now end of 2016!

If they pour cash and if they want it ,it may easy target for them .
Purchasing of nuke subs is also another factor.

 

[Yogi]

well P8 has advantage of range and payload but P-3 orion are not bad either we brought them on hardcash too not free or coalition support fund!
india will be at disadvantage if it delays its order or pakistan gets the subs quicker but n longterm around 2030 india will be ahead.
AIP is great thing you increase your capability from a few days to weeks
india is floating another tender soon for 12 subs worth 12 billion dollars but considering they want them to be build locally dont expect that to materialize before 2023-25 once all six are built at best india will built all 6 scorp till 2022 if it remain on schedule

nuclear blastic missle would not be used to hunt other subs. it has completly differnt purpose

yes overall indian navy will have advantage due to her share size

1. As per latest reports the first scropene under project 75 will be delivered in 2016 n the rest will follow with a gap of 9 months each so all 6 should be completed by 2020 most probably.

2. Under the upcoming $12 billion Project 75I, only 6 subs will be purchased n not 12. And the rate of construction in Project 75I will be many times higher in comparison to Project 75 bcoz 2 subs will be procured directly from foreign shipyard while the remaining 4 will be constructed in 2 shipyards in India.

3. At the time of Project 75 MDL didn't had much experience but the experience gained from scorpenes will come handy in Project 75I. Specially if we went for bigger scorpenes.

 

[ziaulislam]

1. As per latest reports the first scropene under project 75 will be delivered in 2016 n the rest will follow with a gap of 9 months each so all 6 should be completed by 2020 most probably.

2. Under the upcoming $12 billion Project 75I, only 6 subs will be purchased n not 12. And the rate of construction in Project 75I will be many times higher in comparison to Project 75 bcoz 2 subs will be procured directly from foreign shipyard while the remaining 4 will be constructed in 2 shipyards in India.

3. At the time of Project 75 MDL didn't had much experience but the experience gained from scorpenes will come handy in Project 75I. Specially if we went for bigger scorpenes.

9-12 months was official quote. meaning 6 subs by 2021-2022 if time table is followed whihc hasnt been case uptill now in any indian defence project
project 75 is tender for 6 subs with option of another 6 thats the reason for 12 billion price tag for diesel electric sub. diseal electric subs are prced from 500 million to 800-900 million at hghest

 

[rott]

That is a possiblity. after all the difference between pakistanis and indians is religion. I'm probably the only one here who thinks tech transfer to Pakistan is a no no. Yes, we can build previous weapons for them, but no tech transfer.

I wonder if other Chinese members agree? @cirr, @Chinese-Dragon, @rott, @Martian2, @Shutter

I hate to say this, but I do agree with you. Sad but true. No tech transfer is my ruling.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

That is a possiblity. after all the difference between pakistanis and indians is religion. I'm probably the only one here who thinks tech transfer to Pakistan is a no no. Yes, we can build previous weapons for them, but no tech transfer.

I wonder if other Chinese members agree? @cirr, @Chinese-Dragon, @rott, @Martian2, @Shutter

I think tech transfer is fine.

The question is, which technologies can be transferred and which are too sensitive.

 

[Armstrong]

I think tech transfer is fine.

The question is, which technologies can be transferred and which are too sensitive.

Transfer everything & the ones I deem too sensitive.....I'd give'em back !

 

[rott]

I think tech transfer is fine.

The question is, which technologies can be transferred and which are too sensitive.

@bolo, Chinese-Dragon is right. I couldn't have said it better myself.