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Pakistan blocks NATO supplies

if PK wants to 'isolate' itself from the rest of the world, then pl go ahead and 'close' all your land, sea and air routes to the NATO/US/ISAF. dont forget that the countries that comprise the G-8, UN permanent members, most all are part of this armed group. if we think Russia and China will 'stand by us' - well think again - they have too much 'invested' in the economies of these countries and will not take any 'risks' just to save us.

first we 'offer' them everything and do nothing while they violate our 'airspace' daily with their drone strikes - now suddenly we shut everything down. go back in history and research the fact that every 'infraction' of our airspace was challenged and action was taken whether it was the eastern or western border. when you dont define your 'red-lines' and then dont 'defend' them, then you get into situations from which it gets difficult to 'extract' ourselves. i'm not propogating war with anyone but whom so ever it is, needs to know the limits of our patience and goodwill.
 
the blocking of the supplies was a part of the reaction, sooner or later decision has to be made if Pakistan wants to be part of WoT or not so these supplies have to be resumed if we are to help US to get out of Afghanistan .or on the other hand just break up the ties and prohibit any future movement and prepare for the confrontation

in the end its a political decision to respond with force or with diplomacy. There is no guarantee that Americans wont do it after the resumption of ties but one thing is for sure that they will have more reason and excuse to violate the borders and kill the tribal people and soldiers if we chose to break-up with them.

WE, as a weaker party have made our ppoint and this time even the deployment of air defence systems is announced to safeguard our soldiers from American attacks so next time our soldiers will have a fighting chance and Americans acknowledge that.

Time for open hostilities is gone now so after some negotiations these supplies shall open again. But when a similar attack is repeated then I think it will be a complete breakdown and hostilities at the same level as Iran or North Korea which will benefit our enemies.

V Cheng is just another forum member like us and doesn’t represent the US government, he is not even the messenger and doesn’t deserved to be shot for his opinions. Re not yielding to Americans after the late November attack Lets not push ourselves beyond what we have done already. Indeed we reacted just like any other nation would have reacted after the attack by a supposed ally. When USS Liberty was attacked by the Israelis Americans were so infuriated that they decided to Nuke Egypt but when their administration realised that there were witnesses of the Israeli attack and the USS Liberty didn’t sink and its crew was brave enough to tell the truth then they forgave Egypt (phew..)


Generally speaking Americans know our limits, our psyche and sometimes our misplaced priorities of what we see as violation of sovereignty , rule of law and freedom of justice.
Just citing two examples where. After 2nd May operation we were more peed off with Americans for carrying out unauthorised covert attack and violating our sovereignty and disappointed and criticising our military for failing to spot or stop the Americans but we failed to condemn the coward who had been hiding in Abbotabad safely with bunch of his wives, hens, goats and servants while Muslims around the world were blowing themselves up in his name.

Moving on, we marched against the dictator and freed and restored our judges and were promised that prosperty and time of plenty shall return as soon as the courts will start giving away their verdicts kick starting the economy and wellbeing of the people but first we had our governor killed for expressing his concern for an accused and showing his reservations towards the abuse of the Blashphamy law and if that wasn’t enough, the Lawyers hailed the murderer as a hero and the judge who did find the killer guilty was forced to leave the country for the fear of his life. The honourable CJ and his justice never budged. The same CJ who will take a Suomoto if there is not enough huldi in his food didn’t say a word when mass killer Malik Ishaq threatened the witnesses and the judges and walked free although himself confessing to committing 90 murders. If that’s not enough, the killers of the Ahmedi Mosque Massacre in Lahore are still not punished, if this is how we are willing to treat our fellow countrymen then why should Americans show any concern or respect, they see all this they react accordingly. I am not advocating Americans, they are bullies they are the only super power in the world and they do as they please but we only make their job easier by electing selfish leadership and our own bigotry and intolerance towards the weak members of the society just shows where we stand morally.

Emotions are a good thing to have and show life in a nation but they must not be selective and lacking when the grieving parties are the disadvantaged and minority groups because to outsiders such emotions look hallow.

---------- Post added at 05:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 PM ----------

The NATO report comes out in a few days; it will help the "closure" that is sought in some way.

My estimate of the supply closure was about one month; let's see how closely I am right - or wrong.

would the NATO report include the "editted" video footage or everything in its glory? it was a text book execution wasnt it?
 
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would the NATO report include the "editted" video footage or everything in its glory? it was a text book execution wasnt it?

There will be a full internal report, and a public summary which will be released 12-23. No video is expected to be made public.

I am interested in the detailed timeline of events, the bilateral communications, and the conclusions of the report.
 
There will be a full internal report, and a public summary which will be released 12-23. No video is expected to be made public.

I am interested in the detailed timeline of events, the bilateral communications, and the conclusions of the report.

I think I know the answer but would you be pragmatic like myself about what the report will conclude?
 
Generally speaking Americans know our limits

Yes, they know that Pakistanis will huff and puff and throw a tantrum, but they will rationalize the servitude and business will be back to normal after a few weeks.

If Pakistan can't even stick to a principle of passive protest by blocking supplies, do you honestly believe that it will take an active action like shoot down an American aircraft?

Once a country's bluff is called and it folds, then it's game over.

Emotions are a good thing to have and show life in a nation but they must not be selective and lacking when the grieving parties are the disadvantaged and minority groups because to outsiders such emotions look hallow.

Sorry, not buying it.

If the Americans attack and kill 50 soldiers next year, the Pakistani society will not have changed significantly. The political scene will still be the same. By your logic, we should accept the American punishments silently until crime is eradicated from society.
 
I think I know the answer but would you be pragmatic like myself about what the report will conclude?

I have a pretty good idea about the report already, but I must wait for its formal release before saying anything about its conclusions.
 
Yesterday went to Pakistan embassy in London, and met with few people,

you can smell the change in the air, few very important people were leaving for Pakistan, with lots of documents,

things are changing very rapidly and definitely wont be same as b4......
 
I will not blame the civilian government if the supply lines are opened again- Resolution or no resolution- I will blame the Army-
All knows where the real decision making power lies-
 
Yes, they know that Pakistanis will huff and puff and throw a tantrum, but they will rationalize the servitude and business will be back to normal after a few weeks.

If Pakistan can't even stick to a principle of passive protest by blocking supplies, do you honestly believe that it will take an active action like shoot down an American aircraft?

Once a country's bluff is called and it folds, then it's game over.



Sorry, not buying it.

If the Americans attack and kill 50 soldiers next year, the Pakistani society will not have changed significantly. The political scene will still be the same. By your logic, we should accept the American punishments silently until crime is eradicated from society.

not justifying the Americans, just questioning what riles our society. I agree nothing would have changed if and when there is yet another violation of our sovereignty and deaths of soldiers or citizens at the hands of the Americans.

Our reaction was the least one can expect and if you have been following my posts here and other section you know where I stand. We MUST express ourselves but I also remember what a peasant said to the noble when both were perched on a try while the wealth and goodies of the noble were being washed away in the flood. The peasant/ low cast was all smiles while the rich noble was all gloom and when he noticed the big smirk on the face of his companion on the tree he said why the hell was he laughing at the loss of his property to which the peasant replied today I am enjoying being a destitute (meaning, do you realise how it feels being a helpless and penniless person?) I just wonder what our minorities are thinking right now. They are be joining us in the protests indeed but if I was one of them I wont help but think about how I would have felt on the societies indifference towards our plight.
 
I will not blame the civilian government if the supply lines are opened again- Resolution or no resolution- I will blame the Army-
All knows where the real decision making power lies-

yes and thats what is done, civil gov. is failing in protecting home land we are into blame game...
why dont you first root out this gov for not protecting home land?
why you dont root this gov. up as they have already failed on financial war...

only blame army for its just filling up the GAP left by civil gov.

I have always blame army in musharraf era , but now this is a fail of civil part to defend home land and there is always someone to fill up the GAP,

Next time if army dont fill it up then might be someone from outside... as GAPs are always filled by someone, if you study history...
 
I will not blame the civilian government if the supply lines are opened again- Resolution or no resolution- I will blame the Army-
All knows where the real decision making power lies-

no, you should never blame the civilian goverment. their job is to serve the people. and millions of Pakistanis will ensure that the same lot is elected in the next elections to serve the people/

yes all the blames should be only directed on the army
 
I just wonder what our minorities are thinking right now. They are be joining us in the protests indeed but if I was one of them I wont help but think about how I would have felt on the societies indifference towards our plight.

Again, I disagree.

You seem to think that minorities feel besieged and estranged in the country, and would somehow feel vindicated by this, but most Pakistani Christians I know are just as outraged as anyone else.

They know to differentiate criminal extremists from Pakistani soldiers standing guard on the front lines. We have our differences and internal issues but, when attacked from outside, we are all Pakistanis first.
 
Again, I disagree.

You seem to think that minorities feel besieged and estranged in the country, and would somehow feel vindicated by this, but most Pakistani Christians I know are just as outraged as anyone else.

They know to differentiate criminal extremists from Pakistani soldiers standing guard on the front lines. We have our differences and internal issues but, when attacked from outside, we are all Pakistanis first.

I respect what you are saying, we have talked a lot about a point I raised in my post and it might get us off topic. I agree that grieved members of the society can distinguish between the sectarian terrorists and the soldiers. But a foreign aggressor is always encouraged to take liberties if he sees constant injustice in society and exploits it covertly or overtly.
 

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