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Dude I'm a little too old to start adopting a new name and identity. Really, India works just fine for us and we are happy with being called Indians. Unlike other nations which tend to nitpick on every tiny detail, we are comfortable with what and where we are and we don't need to start making radical changes now.
Something just came to my mind that I wanted to ask. I read somewhere that Pakistan stands for Punjab-Afghan-Kashmir-Sindh-Balochistan yes? If this name was coined in 1947, what about East Bengal? Why aren't the Bengalis represented in the name? Or were they not part of the original idea ?
india was not a country till 47
Pakistan attained independence first, and it was from britisher-controlled (OCCUPIED) conglomeration of states, princely states and autonomous self-ruled areas
Can people please note the following;
1. I am NOT saying that Pakistan should have got the name 'India'. That was a 5,000 years old brand and fact was Bharat was bigger then us so she obviously deserved to get the name, please refer back my point about some things CAN NOT be apportioned. I gave the example of horse, the UN seat. In the same way the brand 'India' could not be apportioned. Bharat had right to it, simply because it was bigger then Pakistan. So I am NOT fr*gg*n saying 73 years after the fact that we should have got the name. NO. Do I make myself clear? I am trying to remedy the distorted history that has been created by using the name India. END OFF.
2. Too many people seem to be missing the wood for the tree. If people bother to read my introduction to this thread and if they have the intellect and more importantly are prepared take their heads out the **** then you will see the where I am trying take this.
3. I knew I was going to have problem with this on both sides. On the Bharat side the Indian gov., has been busy trying to construct a national indentity under the brand 'India and I it has succeeded. At heart of this is a fairy tale of IVC, India and differant mumbo jumbo from various Hindu scriptures ( as if these are referance material ) but there is some problems. Like the fact that Indus and most of the IVC sites are in Pakistan. No problem, in almost what can be described as comical some jokers have come up with the mythical 'Saraswati' to justify the existance of IVC in Bharat.
4. This Saraswati appears to be comical attempt to say " Hey the fr*gg*m rivers have changed course so guess what? In the old days this Saraswati River flowed through Bharat into the Arabian Sea and no Indus never flowed through Pakistan. When I came across this mythical river first I laughed till I almost cracked my ribs. I expect any one of these days some dodgy archaeologist from some third rate Western University come to Bharat, do you dodgy research and claim that in the old days apparently the River Indus disgorged into Haryana east of Chandigarh and then rolled down south west towards Rajasthan desert and into Gujrat.
5. Then claim a titanic crack appeared in the Himalyas and Indus flowed west. All he has do then is find some voodoo referance in some voodoo scipture then do a few digs along the way and hey presto publish a book. Such a book would get a better reception in India then a bottle of hard cidar would to some alchoholic. The said archaelogist would make tidy sum out of such a book. Then you would have Wikipedia being jammed with all sort garbage.
So no, I was not surprised that my argument would get the Indian's red in the face because it would go against everything thats been pressure stuffed into their heads. Only a few with sufficient calibre of thought and reason might be able to look at my argument, untrammeled by previous conditioning.
It is absolutly pathetic how somebody from Cape Comorin or Shillong can crow on and get all bloated about IVC when they have nothing to crow about. Yet the Sindhi or the Punjabi farmer ploughing his field in Pakistan within sight of Mohenjo Daro and Harrapa watering their fields from the Indus River have no recognition. Yet they are the direct descendants, it was their forefathers that built those cities with bare hands of IVC. Let us not forget Mehr Garh in Balochistan.
Don't anybody here dare mention religion. There is such a thing as evolution, yes waves of conquerors have come and they have probably heavily influenced the genetic pool but that is history, continous change, evolution in play. The Ancient Egyptians were not Muslim, the ancient Greeks were not Christians yet nobody can say to them you 'can't' claim that legacy or that your not the direct inheritors of those civilizations.
Amongst the Pakistani's of course I also will have problems in particular the hirsute variety. They of course have had their brains mushed with 73 yeats with garbage about 'my forefathers were sat on the boat from Arabia next to Bin Qasim when he invaded Sindh'. According to this narrative 180 million Pakistani's dropped from the sky in 1947 on Pakistan or alternatively landed on the Sindh coast from Arabia in 9th century . So we are all Arabs. Great. Bravo. That fr*gg*n figuers.
That is also heap of shite, through and through.
That is why I know my argument would not resonate with many people on both sides of the border because it shakes their worldview. So in summary I am not saying to Bharat give us the brand name 'India'. NO. The thrust of my post is that we in Pakistan have the mighty majestic Indus, which is to Pakistan what Nile is to Egypt. Without this river there would be no Pakistan and we should be proud of the ancient civilzation it bore. It is our heritage. It was our forefather's who built IVC 5,000 years ago. Let us take it in our hands, lets us celebrate it, let us go out there and see the wonder that was Mohenjo Daro, Harrapa and Taxila. The Greek remains in the Taxila area just 30 miles east of Islamabad. That is us, that is our identity. Claim it.
I have gone there, I have seen Greek coins. You can almost feel the past come alive there. People you wil be proud. Yes, I know Panini sat there and did his work on the banks of Indus.
Yes, we are Muslims but let us not ignore our forefathers. That was the basic message of my post. Those who can contribute go ahead, if you can't toss off. I am not forcing you to read this.
Can people please note the following;
1. I am NOT saying that Pakistan should have got the name 'India'. That was a 5,000 years old brand and fact was Bharat was bigger then us so she obviously deserved to get the name, please refer back my point about some things CAN NOT be apportioned. I gave the example of horse, the UN seat. In the same way the brand 'India' could not be apportioned. Bharat had right to it, simply because it was bigger then Pakistan. So I am NOT fr*gg*n saying 73 years after the fact that we should have got the name. NO. Do I make myself clear? I am trying to remedy the distorted history that has been created by using the name India. END OFF.
2. Too many people seem to be missing the wood for the tree. If people bother to read my introduction to this thread and if they have the intellect and more importantly are prepared take their heads out the **** then you will see the where I am trying take this.
3. I knew I was going to have problem with this on both sides. On the Bharat side the Indian gov., has been busy trying to construct a national indentity under the brand 'India and I it has succeeded. At heart of this is a fairy tale of IVC, India and differant mumbo jumbo from various Hindu scriptures ( as if these are referance material ) but there is some problems. Like the fact that Indus and most of the IVC sites are in Pakistan. No problem, in almost what can be described as comical some jokers have come up with the mythical 'Saraswati' to justify the existance of IVC in Bharat.
4. This Saraswati appears to be comical attempt to say " Hey the fr*gg*m rivers have changed course so guess what? In the old days this Saraswati River flowed through Bharat into the Arabian Sea and no Indus never flowed through Pakistan. When I came across this mythical river first I laughed till I almost cracked my ribs. I expect any one of these days some dodgy archaeologist from some third rate Western University come to Bharat, do you dodgy research and claim that in the old days apparently the River Indus disgorged into Haryana east of Chandigarh and then rolled down south west towards Rajasthan desert and into Gujrat.
5. Then claim a titanic crack appeared in the Himalyas and Indus flowed west. All he has do then is find some voodoo referance in some voodoo scipture then do a few digs along the way and hey presto publish a book. Such a book would get a better reception in India then a bottle of hard cidar would to some alchoholic. The said archaelogist would make tidy sum out of such a book. Then you would have Wikipedia being jammed with all sort garbage.
So no, I was not surprised that my argument would get the Indian's red in the face because it would go against everything thats been pressure stuffed into their heads. Only a few with sufficient calibre of thought and reason might be able to look at my argument, untrammeled by previous conditioning.
It is absolutly pathetic how somebody from Cape Comorin or Shillong can crow on and get all bloated about IVC when they have nothing to crow about. Yet the Sindhi or the Punjabi farmer ploughing his field in Pakistan within sight of Mohenjo Daro and Harrapa watering their fields from the Indus River have no recognition. Yet they are the direct descendants, it was their forefathers that built those cities with bare hands of IVC. Let us not forget Mehr Garh in Balochistan.
Don't anybody here dare mention religion. There is such a thing as evolution, yes waves of conquerors have come and they have probably heavily influenced the genetic pool but that is history, continous change, evolution in play. The Ancient Egyptians were not Muslim, the ancient Greeks were not Christians yet nobody can say to them you 'can't' claim that legacy or that your not the direct inheritors of those civilizations.
Amongst the Pakistani's of course I also will have problems in particular the hirsute variety. They of course have had their brains mushed with 73 yeats with garbage about 'my forefathers were sat on the boat from Arabia next to Bin Qasim when he invaded Sindh'. According to this narrative 180 million Pakistani's dropped from the sky in 1947 on Pakistan or alternatively landed on the Sindh coast from Arabia in 9th century . So we are all Arabs. Great. Bravo. That fr*gg*n figuers.
That is also heap of shite, through and through.
That is why I know my argument would not resonate with many people on both sides of the border because it shakes their worldview. So in summary I am not saying to Bharat give us the brand name 'India'. NO. The thrust of my post is that we in Pakistan have the mighty majestic Indus, which is to Pakistan what Nile is to Egypt. Without this river there would be no Pakistan and we should be proud of the ancient civilzation it bore. It is our heritage. It was our forefather's who built IVC 5,000 years ago. Let us take it in our hands, lets us celebrate it, let us go out there and see the wonder that was Mohenjo Daro, Harrapa and Taxila. The Greek remains in the Taxila area just 30 miles east of Islamabad. That is us, that is our identity. Claim it.
I have gone there, I have seen Greek coins. You can almost feel the past come alive there. People you wil be proud. Yes, I know Panini sat there and did his work on the banks of Indus.
Yes, we are Muslims but let us not ignore our forefathers. That was the basic message of my post. Those who can contribute go ahead, if you can't toss off. I am not forcing you to read this.
Ethnically, the Punjabis tower over all ethnicities in Pakistan. 44% is huge. This is what caused friction between the Bengalis and the Punjabis prior to 1971 as the Bengalis were once the largest ethnicity in Pakistan but felt discriminated against as the power resided with the predominantly Punjabi Army.
How about the fallacy that Muhammad Ali Jinnah is the Founder of Pakistan. The real Founder of Pakistan was Jawahar Lal Nehru who created Pakistan the moment he walked away from the " Cabinet Mission " Plan. Jinnah had already agreed to undivided India as envisaged under the Cabinet Mission plan and signed the document. It was Nehru who walked away from the Cabinet mission plan after he already signed up on the plan but later reneged. After Nehru reneged on the agreement, Jinnah was left with no option other than asking for Pakistan.
Great that we are on the same page here. It is a tragedy of history for Pakistan(at least for Pakistanis like you who care), that their own countrymen don't own their heritage. But that is not anyone's problem here. You have to convince everyone you talk to that indeed IVC flourished in present Pakistan. If they insist that these were parts of ancient India and they meant that India when they talk about IVC, then I guess the discussion ends there.Can people please note the following;
1. I am NOT saying that Pakistan should have got the name 'India'. That was a 5,000 years old brand and fact was Bharat was bigger then us so she obviously deserved to get the name, please refer back my point about some things CAN NOT be apportioned. I gave the example of horse, the UN seat. In the same way the brand 'India' could not be apportioned. Bharat had right to it, simply because it was bigger then Pakistan. So I am NOT fr*gg*n saying 73 years after the fact that we should have got the name. NO. Do I make myself clear? I am trying to remedy the distorted history that has been created by using the name India. END OFF.
Please don't swallow your own words. You were worried that Pakistan is not known for its rightful legacy. And you make it India's fault. Let there be no doubts about your stand. My point is simply: Not our problem.2. Too many people seem to be missing the wood for the tree. If people bother to read my introduction to this thread and if they have the intellect and more importantly are prepared take their heads out the **** then you will see the where I am trying take this.
I sympathize with your view here not because it is true. Only because there is indeed a fringe political element of India which propogates the 'Saraswati' myth(and their attempts are, as you rightly said, comical even for Indians). But you make a huge mistake. Indian Government does not build any narrative based on the 'Saraswati'. Either you got your facts wrong or your prejudice is blinding you. In the former case, here is some perspective:3. I knew I was going to have problem with this on both sides. On the Bharat side the Indian gov., has been busy trying to construct a national indentity under the brand 'India and I it has succeeded. At heart of this is a fairy tale of IVC, India and differant mumbo jumbo from various Hindu scriptures ( as if these are referance material ) but there is some problems. Like the fact that Indus and most of the IVC sites are in Pakistan. No problem, in almost what can be described as comical some jokers have come up with the mythical 'Saraswati' to justify the existance of IVC in Bharat.
4. This Saraswati appears to be comical attempt to say " Hey the fr*gg*m rivers have changed course so guess what? In the old days this Saraswati River flowed through Bharat into the Arabian Sea and no Indus never flowed through Pakistan. When I came across this mythical river first I laughed till I almost cracked my ribs. I expect any one of these days some dodgy archaeologist from some third rate Western University come to Bharat, do you dodgy research and claim that in the old days apparently the River Indus disgorged into Haryana east of Chandigarh and then rolled down south west towards Rajasthan desert and into Gujrat.
5. Then claim a titanic crack appeared in the Himalyas and Indus flowed west. All he has do then is find some voodoo referance in some voodoo scipture then do a few digs along the way and hey presto publish a book. Such a book would get a better reception in India then a bottle of hard cidar would to some alchoholic. The said archaelogist would make tidy sum out of such a book. Then you would have Wikipedia being jammed with all sort garbage.
So no, I was not surprised that my argument would get the Indian's red in the face because it would go against everything thats been pressure stuffed into their heads. Only a few with sufficient calibre of thought and reason might be able to look at my argument, untrammeled by previous conditioning.
It is absolutly pathetic how somebody from Cape Comorin or Shillong can crow on and get all bloated about IVC when they have nothing to crow about. Yet the Sindhi or the Punjabi farmer ploughing his field in Pakistan within sight of Mohenjo Daro and Harrapa watering their fields from the Indus River have no recognition. Yet they are the direct descendants, it was their forefathers that built those cities with bare hands of IVC. Let us not forget Mehr Garh in Balochistan.
I guess this part if for the sake of Pakistanis who forgot their heritage. So I have nothing to say.Don't anybody here dare mention religion. There is such a thing as evolution, yes waves of conquerors have come and they have probably heavily influenced the genetic pool but that is history, continous change, evolution in play. The Ancient Egyptians were not Muslim, the ancient Greeks were not Christians yet nobody can say to them you 'can't' claim that legacy or that your not the direct inheritors of those civilizations.
Amongst the Pakistani's of course I also will have problems in particular the hirsute variety. They of course have had their brains mushed with 73 yeats with garbage about 'my forefathers were sat on the boat from Arabia next to Bin Qasim when he invaded Sindh'. According to this narrative 180 million Pakistani's dropped from the sky in 1947 on Pakistan or alternatively landed on the Sindh coast from Arabia in 9th century . So we are all Arabs. Great. Bravo. That fr*gg*n figuers.
That is also heap of shite, through and through.
That is why I know my argument would not resonate with many people on both sides of the border because it shakes their worldview. So in summary I am not saying to Bharat give us the brand name 'India'. NO. The thrust of my post is that we in Pakistan have the mighty majestic Indus, which is to Pakistan what Nile is to Egypt. Without this river there would be no Pakistan and we should be proud of the ancient civilzation it bore. It is our heritage. It was our forefather's who built IVC 5,000 years ago. Let us take it in our hands, lets us celebrate it, let us go out there and see the wonder that was Mohenjo Daro, Harrapa and Taxila. The Greek remains in the Taxila area just 30 miles east of Islamabad. That is us, that is our identity. Claim it.
I have gone there, I have seen Greek coins. You can almost feel the past come alive there. People you wil be proud. Yes, I know Panini sat there and did his work on the banks of Indus.
Yes, we are Muslims but let us not ignore our forefathers. That was the basic message of my post. Those who can contribute go ahead, if you can't toss off. I am not forcing you to read this.