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Pakistan became 25% poorer under PTI: PML-N

Its funny how even "senior moderators" think PML-N growth filled with $20b of current account deficit was somehow leading the country to progress. No wonder India and Bangladesh have left Pakistan far behind in the economic sphere. Pakistanis are happy when shown fake growth number but the things that show actual growth such as exports or industry are pretty much at the same level where Musharaff left them.

The ills will NOT go away until the corrupt baaboo shahi among others are dealt with as far as economic woes are concerned they will remain UNTILL you do not get rid of yourself from IMF completely since all your economic policies and inflation is dictated by them including the huge debt servicing you have to do from a big chuck of revenues your earn...
 
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As I have earlier stated that the power plants under the policy of 1994 and 2002 (which are being run on expensive fuel RFO and Deisle) will be retired this year or next year what will we do at that time?? Plus they were set up to cater the 6+ growth rate.
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yeh dekho pakistan usa se bhi agay nikal gaya taraqe mai lol

aik banda pakistan ki taraqi per hairan hai

Its funny how even "senior moderators" think PML-N growth filled with $20b of current account deficit was somehow leading the country to progress. No wonder India and Bangladesh have left Pakistan far behind in the economic sphere. Pakistanis are happy when shown fake growth number but the things that show actual growth such as exports or industry are pretty much at the same level where Musharaff left them.
pdf ka moderator ya senior moderator se ais ka koiye taloq nahi baat kuch aur hai.
 

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4.1

View attachment 750499
4.2
As I have earlier stated that the power plants under the policy of 1994 and 2002 (which are being run on expensive fuel RFO and Deisle) will be retired this year or next year what will we do at that time?? Plus they were set up to cater the 6+ growth rate.
4.1

View attachment 750499
4.2
As I have earlier stated that the power plants under the policy of 1994 and 2002 (which are being run on expensive fuel RFO and Deisle) will be retired this year or next year what will we do at that time?? Plus they were set up to cater the 6+ growth rate.
Skip 3 points to cherrypick 4th typical of PMLN supporters and if plants under 2002 policy were to be closed why setup expansive plant to cater the needs ? Why not inexpensive long term projects ?
 
Skip 3 points to cherrypick 4th typical of PMLN supporters and if plants under 2002 policy were to be closed why setup expansive plant to cater the needs ? Why not inexpensive long term projects ?

Answered first three in previous posts. Don't have enough energy to repeat it again and again.
 
Its funny how even "senior moderators" think PML-N growth filled with $20b of current account deficit was somehow leading the country to progress. No wonder India and Bangladesh have left Pakistan far behind in the economic sphere. Pakistanis are happy when shown fake growth number but the things that show actual growth such as exports or industry are pretty much at the same level where Musharaff left them.
My dear Brother, I have played enough number games on this forum and compared GDP and other statistics for 15 years. The fact is If the ultimate measure of any growth is the well-being of its people, then hearing from my Pakistani relatives and friends has left me unsatisfied. There used to be upper, middle, and lower class people in Pakistan, but now inflation is breaking the backbone of the middle class, and those I know who could afford a car in Pakistan are finding excuses to switch back to motorcycles, and those who could afford motorcycles are finding it difficult to meet their household's basic monthly expenses.

I don't want to start a debate about economic indicators, but even if you compare our "fake GDP" of $310 billion USD around 2018, we could have easily been around $370 billion USD by now, but the fact is your "true" GDP is hardly managing around $280-290, and despite the rupee depreciation, we have not seen much growth in our exports, unemployment, or the lives of our people have not improved. Imran Khan says "Ghabrana nahi" since he is still learning and talks about "we will do this and that" and frequently forgets that time is running out and now is the time to act.
 
My dear Brother, I have played enough number games on this forum and compared GDP and other statistics for 15 years. The fact is If the ultimate measure of any growth is the well-being of its people, then hearing from my Pakistani relatives and friends has left me unsatisfied. There used to be upper, middle, and lower class people in Pakistan, but now inflation is breaking the backbone of the middle class, and those I know who could afford a car in Pakistan are finding excuses to switch back to motorcycles, and those who could afford motorcycles are finding it difficult to meet their household's basic monthly expenses.

I don't want to start a debate about economic indicators, but even if you compare our "fake GDP" of $310 billion USD around 2018, we could have easily been around $370 billion USD by now, but the fact is your "true" GDP is hardly managing around $280-290, and despite the rupee depreciation, we have not seen much growth in our exports, unemployment, or the lives of our people have not improved. Imran Khan says "Ghabrana nahi" since he is still learning and talks about "we will do this and that" and frequently forgets that time is running out and now is the time to act.
If you know economics and if you dont see this as improvement then something wrong with you.

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PMLN using last years figures and omitting current FY is just ridiculous. This year has reversed all the destruction Ishaq Dollar caused to our economy. There is no way but up from here after forming a good base to propel GDP growth. This GDP growth is real backed by CA surplus and least amount of loan taken in more than a decade. Inshallah Khan will undo all the damage Ishaq Dollar and Choar Sharief did to Pakistan.
 
PTI regime forte is propaganda, and lots of it. They would have been Hitler's cheerleaders, Gorbals was a child Infront of them.
They lie over figures, they lie about people who don't agree with them.
Imran Khan is a compulsive liar, as is his army of spokesthings. They are a phsyops program, to destroy the country. Only bloodletting will purify the nation of this filth.
Pakistan is an immature state and people are like that too. They are being led to the slaughter like sheep.
I am posting between bans as the truth in Pakistan can't be aired. Anyone talking against the narrative created by the top brass nincompoops, the rabid dogs of PTI, the Mirzai lobby and their zio handlers is a traitor/liar/corrupt.
How can the economy be growing when unemployment is rising. Poverty is rising, inflation is the highest in history. The regime has borrowed more than any other in history. People are poorer, hungrier and totally despondent. The GDP is lower.
The public has humiliated the PTI regime in every bye election
All I can say is they plan, and Allah SWT plans and he is the best of planners.
 
If there has been a miraculous economic improvement, why get rid of the architect, Abdul Hafeez Sheikh. Why are we in the IMF program for a paltry $6 billion. Or is it just the usual bs from the grand master of bull
 
It's a great achievement considering the big blow caused by Corona virus to world economies, Pakistan has done well at this stage, hoping it gets better.
 
If you know economics and if you dont see this as improvement then something wrong with you.

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My dear brother, First and foremost, let me state that I am not a PML-N supporter, and I am not sure why, but most PTI workers despise the PML-N as if they were anti-Pakistan, so please save your feelings for another day. I voted for PTI in 2013 and did not vote in 2018 since I was away of the country, but my family did vote for PTI.

Returning to your subject, your post reminds me of something PML-N used to do. If a poor man goes to PML-N Leader and complains he can't fulfill his household expenditures, he will be told, "Look, we built a Metro bus for you." What you're saying is that if I say people are unable to endure the weight of inflation, you're saying, "Look, our remittances have increased or our foreign reserves have increased." I don't believe the average person will pay heed to these figures, but for the purpose of argument, I don't even agree with the numbers you have shared. When someone builds a chart in Word or Excel and tries to sell it as a fact, the facts remain the same.

Current Account & Foreign Reserves

I'm not sure what I have to be proud of. These are the figures that fluctuate based on the situation. The figures you shared were most likely at their lowest during the PML-N era and at their highest during the PTI era, but the fact remains that we have had foreign reserves of around 23 billion USD for the last 5-8 years, mostly when we receive loans from the IMF and friendly nations, and the reserves drop as soon as we begin making repayments.

Exports

Since 2018, our exports have been hovering around 24 billion USD, and we haven't made any progress in this area. Last year, exports temporarily soared as demand for face masks rose around the world, and countries with textile industries received orders for an unlimited number of face masks and safety kits. I really don't see any significant difference in our exports in terms of Dollar

Remittances

Remittances have increased in Pakistan during the previous two decades, and this is nothing new. Although the devaluation in the value of the rupee aids in the incitement of overseas Pakistanis, remind me what credit to offer this current government for that? Imran Khan was always grateful to overseas Pakistanis for giving him breathing space and to fill the gap between imports and exports.

Tax Collection

According to the FBR, Pakistan's tax collection in 2013 was 2254 billion rupees, and by 2018, it had risen to almost 3828 billion rupees. That's a 70 percent increase in just 5 years. Your attachment agreed that PML-N had done good job in it

Increase in Debt

I have to leave right now, but can you prove it to me? From what I recall, Pakistan's debt was roughly 66 billion dollars in 2012. Due to repayments prior to the election, it had dropped to roughly 60 billion dollars, and a new loan was obtained in 2013 following the creation of a new government. By 2018, it was around $90 billion USD, and as far as I know, it was approximately $115 billion USD following years of PTI rule. These data may be slightly off because I don't have time to double-check them, but I am confident that they are quite near to reality. Your figures don't add up since they were produced by a PTI supporter and not from the IMF/World Bank or the Government of Pakistan's website.
 
My dear brother, First and foremost, let me state that I am not a PML-N supporter, and I am not sure why, but most PTI workers despise the PML-N as if they were anti-Pakistan, so please save your feelings for another day. I voted for PTI in 2013 and did not vote in 2018 since I was away of the country, but my family did vote for PTI.

Returning to your subject, your post reminds me of something PML-N used to do. If a poor man goes to PML-N Leader and complains he can't fulfill his household expenditures, he will be told, "Look, we built a Metro bus for you." What you're saying is that if I say people are unable to endure the weight of inflation, you're saying, "Look, our remittances have increased or our foreign reserves have increased." I don't believe the average person will pay heed to these figures, but for the purpose of argument, I don't even agree with the numbers you have shared. When someone builds a chart in Word or Excel and tries to sell it as a fact, the facts remain the same.

Current Account & Foreign Reserves

I'm not sure what I have to be proud of. These are the figures that fluctuate based on the situation. The figures you shared were most likely at their lowest during the PML-N era and at their highest during the PTI era, but the fact remains that we have had foreign reserves of around 23 billion USD for the last 5-8 years, mostly when we receive loans from the IMF and friendly nations, and the reserves drop as soon as we begin making repayments.

Exports

Since 2018, our exports have been hovering around 24 billion USD, and we haven't made any progress in this area. Last year, exports temporarily soared as demand for face masks rose around the world, and countries with textile industries received orders for an unlimited number of face masks and safety kits. I really don't see any significant difference in our exports in terms of Dollar

Remittances

Remittances have increased in Pakistan during the previous two decades, and this is nothing new. Although the devaluation in the value of the rupee aids in the incitement of overseas Pakistanis, remind me what credit to offer this current government for that? Imran Khan was always grateful to overseas Pakistanis for giving him breathing space and to fill the gap between imports and exports.

Tax Collection

According to the FBR, Pakistan's tax collection in 2013 was 2254 billion rupees, and by 2018, it had risen to almost 3828 billion rupees. That's a 70 percent increase in just 5 years. Your attachment agreed that PML-N had done good job in it

Increase in Debt

I have to leave right now, but can you prove it to me? From what I recall, Pakistan's debt was roughly 66 billion dollars in 2012. Due to repayments prior to the election, it had dropped to roughly 60 billion dollars, and a new loan was obtained in 2013 following the creation of a new government. By 2018, it was around $90 billion USD, and as far as I know, it was approximately $115 billion USD following years of PTI rule. These data may be slightly off because I don't have time to double-check them, but I am confident that they are quite near to reality. Your figures don't add up since they were produced by a PTI supporter and not from the IMF/World Bank or the Government of Pakistan's website.

ok so $90 billion in debt you would like IK to pay that off when pakistan went almost bankrupt in 2018? how can you expect this is beyond understanding.

2nd you are saying debt increase to $115 billion yet pti paid back loan taken by pmln round $10 billion.


third, first time fbr are going to achive our tax target which never had happened before.



fourth can you explain me how we have such huge gaps in import as compare to export in pmln and how you can think any govt to overcome such situation when your foreign reserve kept in negative everyweek around $200 million.

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i never said you are pmln supporter but you are saying it was just fine for you when we already had $90 billion of debt but not fine with pti?
 
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ok so $90 billion in debt you would like IK to pay that off when pakistan went almost bankrupt in 2018? how can you expect this is beyond understanding.

I didn't say anything like that, my brother. If Urdu is your preferred language, I will gladly respond in Urdu. Please don't misunderstand me or try to manipulate my words.

Pakistan was never on the edge of bankruptcy; in fact, our debt-to-GDP ratio is at an all-time high, considerably greater than in 2018, so it is more accurate to state that we are now on the verge of bankruptcy, though I strongly believe that nations do not go bankrupt in the first place.


2nd you are saying debt increase to $115 billion yet pti paid back loan taken by pmln round $10 billion.

The same thing was said by PML-N when they came into power and claimed that they were returning loans to IMF that was taken during the tenure of PPP


third, first time fbr are going to achive our tax target which never had happened before.


Good for FBR, but the point is that if FBR sets unreasonable growth expectations of 30-40% each year, it is almost certain that they would not be met. However, I recall Asad Umar saying when he was appointed Finance Minister that FBR will be given realistic targets. Maintaining a growth rate is more vital than meeting a target, and the FBR has boosted their taxation from 1200 billion to roughly 4000 billion in the last 10-12 years.


fourth can you explain me how we have such huge gaps in import as compare to export in pmln and how you can think any govt to overcome such situation when your foreign reserve kept in negative everyweek around $200 million.

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So, this is the first time you've asked me a question rather than arguing with me, so please forgive me if I end up writing a lengthy response. Before I respond to your request, I'd like to rewind your memories to 2012, when Pakistan produced roughly 12,000MW of energy, the majority of which was generated by antiquated and inefficient power plants fueled by expensive furnace oil, crude oil, and gas. Some of these power plants were producing electricity for 30 cents per unit, compared to the PML-N's terrible deals, which they eventually struck for 9-13 cents per unit starting in 2013. The point is that import bills in Pakistan have two primary components. That is import of energy (oil and gas) and heavy machinery (tools, plants, machinery, and so on).

We import so much oil that, out of around $45 billion in imports, crude oil alone accounts for around $15 billion. Despite the fact that, unlike past governments, PTI was fortunate in that... crude oil prices plummeted so low during the pandemic that they dipped below 0 dollars at one point.

So, if you could buy oil for a lower price, your import bill was going to fall. I'll reveal you a secret to slashing your import bill in half overnight. If you don't build anything in Pakistan, your imports will plummet by billions of dollars overnight. The problem with the PML-N is that they commit corruption while completing a large number of projects. The problem with the PTI is that they are scared to take risks, and I am not aware of many projects now underway in Pakistan. The difficulty with the PML-N is that they were building industrial parks, power plants, reviving the textile industry, and bringing car manufacturers back to Pakistan, so your imports had to climb. Given the size of Pakistan's economy and population, our realistic import and exports should be greater than $200 billion. However, because we are unable to boost our exports, we have rules in Pakistan that prevent importers from bringing in additional items from other nations. It's like our Governments have failed to increase exports so they are making sure our imports don't increase as well.


i never said you are pmln supporter but you are saying it was just fine for you when we already had $90 billion of debt but not fine with pti?

Please don't associate anything with me that I haven't said here because I didn't say anything like that. All I meant was that the figures in your post were inaccurate, and that PML-N was taking 10 billion dollars in loans every year compared to PTI's 3 billion dollars is not true.

From what I recall from my memory, Pakistan had an external debt of about

32 Billion USD in 1999
35 billion by 2007
42 by 2008
65 by 2013
90 by 2018
115 by 2021

So it is not incorrect to say that PPP took foreign loans of 23 billion dollars in five years (not adding internal debt, which is also very large) versus 25 billion dollars during PML-N's tenure and PTI has already taken equivalent debt in the last three years. PML-N, like PTI, has claimed that they are accepting loans to pay off past obligations, but this is just a partial truth; the reality is much different.
 

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