Pakistan as a superpower?

[roadrunner]

Japan has a reasonably strong military. And it has the capability to be a military power if it wishes. They have the technology and the monetary resources to be the greatest military in the world after the USA. They also have the tech to be a nuclear power if they want. The only thing they lack is military aspiration.

True, Japan could be a superpower. Japan is a small country, small population, but they could be militarily very powerful, economically very powerful, and get political influence perhaps. Population shouldnt be something to stop Pakistan becoming a superpower. Literacy will be needed though perhaps.

 

[Flintlock]

Isn't that exactly what socialism is? Profit making is not discouraged in a socialist economy. China has a socialist market economy.

Lol...China is Communist by name, Capitalist by nature. Socalist? China has nothing to do with socialism.

 

[roadrunner]

Lol...China is Communist by name, Capitalist by nature. Socalist? China has nothing to do with socialism.

China has lots to do with socialism. The right to own property was only abolished two years ago. Other than this there's several other socialist aspects to China and the Chinese economy. Right now I'd say it's mixed, but it's still socialist IMO.

 

[Tang0]

As it stands the Pakistani army is not capable of controlling the population within it's own boarders, forget about the ability to invade a foreign country. Now, sure, I have no doubt it could move in and kill anyone who looks at them crosswise and "Pacify" these areas, but then what happens? What happened to Myanmar when they started doing things like that? The western and Chinese "Millitary Assistance" that Pakistan so desperately needs in order to afford it's military modernization disappears. Lets recall here that there are good 50 different US companies that net more revenue than the government of Pakistan in a year. 18 billion is about as much as the US spends in 2 weeks in Iraq.

Pakistan does not have the natural resources to develop all the things it needs for a modern military indigenously, and it can't afford politically to suppress the midevil forces inside its own country. The Soviets had the space and resources not to give a **** what people thought about their policies, and in 1937, the Germans could actually suppress a great deal of the news about how brutal their regime really was. Modern news media makes that relatively speaking impossible. The Germans had trade relationships existing before the world wars, and they stayed open after them(In 1939 Germany and France were the largest trading partners in the world). Pakistan does not have any such pre-existing relationships with it's neighbors or the west.

No, economic extortion will not work to get trade, resources and cash from India, they will go elsewhere. Hell, why don't all these trade routes exist already?

The larger society does matter. Islam endorses violence for religious reasons, stopping a secular government from suppressing the populace in order to become a superpower seems like a pretty good reason to many ears. It does not sound so bad to me, and I ain't the world's most observant Muslim if ya know what I mean. ( I'm Catholic)

Yes, space is not the battle-sphere of the future, but it makes for a fun read All that said, you will need some type of space program for satellites and kinetic energy weapons.

My final word.
Could Pakistan become a superpower? Sure, no specific reason it could never be a superpower, but it has a good 60-70 years of technology and society to cover, and there is no reason to expect that progress will happen any faster in Pakistan than for it's competitors.
__
-Note, I know that there is such a thing as purchasing power parity, but even at 6-1, that is budget of about 120 billion, compared to the US military 440 billion peacetime spending. Currently it has gone over 600 billion a year.

 

[roadrunner]

I agree with most of that Tango

As it stands the Pakistani army is not capable of controlling the population within it's own boarders, forget about the ability to invade a foreign country. Now, sure, I have no doubt it could move in and kill anyone who looks at them crosswise and "Pacify" these areas, but then what happens? What happened to Myanmar when they started doing things like that? The western and Chinese "Millitary Assistance" that Pakistan so desperately needs in order to afford it's military modernization disappears. Lets recall here that there are good 50 different US companies that net more revenue than the government of Pakistan in a year. 18 billion is about as much as the US spends in 2 weeks in Iraq.

True, though growth in China, India, Pakistan is currently high. Pakistan's standing should be higher, which is why its growing fast.

Pakistan does not have the natural resources to develop all the things it needs for a modern military indigenously, and it can't afford politically to suppress the midevil forces inside its own country. The Soviets had the space and resources not to give a **** what people thought about their policies, and in 1937, the Germans could actually suppress a great deal of the news about how brutal their regime really was. Modern news media makes that relatively speaking impossible. The Germans had trade relationships existing before the world wars, and they stayed open after them(In 1939 Germany and France were the largest trading partners in the world). Pakistan does not have any such pre-existing relationships with it's neighbors or the west.

What natural resorces does Pakistan lack?

trade always changes. China would be one of the major powers to trade with in the future, which could help Pakistan.

No, economic extortion will not work to get trade, resources and cash from India, they will go elsewhere. Hell, why don't all these trade routes exist already?

Not economic extortion. But political influence over matters in the region, all over Asia in fact. What it lacks in economy is made up in geostrategy.

The larger society does matter. Islam endorses violence for religious reasons, stopping a secular government from suppressing the populace in order to become a superpower seems like a pretty good reason to many ears. It does not sound so bad to me, and I ain't the world's most observant Muslim if ya know what I mean. ( I'm Catholic)

LOL. Drivel my friend. Islam doesn't endorse violence for religious reasons, as you put it. Subtle, but not very clever.

What's happening in Pakistan isn't about religion, more about opposition corruption and interference in judiciary. The religious extremists blowing up are foreign in my opinion.

Yes, space is not the battle-sphere of the future, but it makes for a fun read All that said, you will need some type of space program for satellites and kinetic energy weapons.

My final word.
Could Pakistan become a superpower? Sure, no specific reason it could never be a superpower, but it has a good 60-70 years of technology and society to cover, and there is no reason to expect that progress will happen any faster in Pakistan than for it's competitors.
__
-Note, I know that there is such a thing as purchasing power parity, but even at 6-1, that is budget of about 120 billion, compared to the US military 440 billion peacetime spending. Currently it has gone over 600 billion a year.

I agree, though the progress is happening at the same rate for both India and Pakistan it seems to me, China is still progressing faster though.

 

[Contrarian]

You might not have noticed RR, but India seems to be growing faster than Pakistan. Be specific. There is a tendency here to always say 'we' as in Pakistan is matching India's growth.

 

[roadrunner]

You might not have noticed RR, but India seems to be growing faster than Pakistan. Be specific. There is a tendency here to always say 'we' as in Pakistan is matching India's growth.

Both India and Pakistan are growing at the same rate now. I think Pakistan will grow faster soon because it's not yet hit anywhere near where it can with quite a few industries.

 

[Tang0]

Setting aside Pakistan as a superpower for a moment, I should rephrase my comment about Islam, it sounds somewhat ignorent in retrospect. Instead of "Islam endorses violence for religous reasons" let me say that Islam leaves the door open for religously motivated violence. Conversion(Well, in the gerneral since of the word) of non-monthiestic peoples to Islam by force is permissable (Although conversions under duress are not "Real" conversions, you can certainly force Islamic practices upon infidels). Violence against groups who attempt to supress or end the free practice of Islam is permissable. Jihad (And not just in the spiritual sense) is mentioned several times in the Koran.

That said, I am no expert (I have not even read the Koran in its entirety), and this is not a religous forum. As such I will simply say that there are plenty of people who justify violence commited against secular groups by using Islam. Furthermore, they convince a whole lot of other people to follow along using this justification.

This is really a minefield for an outsider to comment on, and I really should not have even mentioned it, but I did, and there is my apology and explanation.

 

[Contrarian]

Both India and Pakistan are growing at the same rate now. I think Pakistan will grow faster soon because it's not yet hit anywhere near where it can with quite a few industries.

Do check the current growth rates for the last year as well as the previous 5 years. You will notice that Pakistan has managed to equal India's growth rate only and exactly once. And this years forecasts also put India's growth ahead of Pakistan's. Please dont talk in general terms. Pakistan is NOT growing at the same rate as India, it might grow much faster in the future, but we cannot predict that. We can only talk about the previous track records.

 

[Awesome]

Setting aside Pakistan as a superpower for a moment, I should rephrase my comment about Islam, it sounds somewhat ignorent in retrospect. Instead of "Islam endorses violence for religous reasons" let me say that Islam leaves the door open for religously motivated violence. Conversion(Well, in the gerneral since of the word) of non-monthiestic peoples to Islam by force is permissable (Although conversions under duress are not "Real" conversions, you can certainly force Islamic practices upon infidels). Violence against groups who attempt to supress or end the free practice of Islam is permissable. Jihad (And not just in the spiritual sense) is mentioned several times in the Koran.

That said, I am no expert (I have not even read the Koran in its entirety), and this is not a religous forum. As such I will simply say that there are plenty of people who justify violence commited against secular groups by using Islam. Furthermore, they convince a whole lot of other people to follow along using this justification.

This is really a minefield for an outsider to comment on, and I really should not have even mentioned it, but I did, and there is my apology and explanation.

Tango, there are no insider/outsider members of this forum. They are all plain n simple members.

As far as using Islam to commit violence, that is a humanly fault don't pin it on Islam. I can use "DONT KILL!" and turn it into something violent by presuming its okay to torture someone. Islam hasn't left the door open to violence more than anything else. It's our human brain that reaches out to such conclusions.

 

[Awesome]

Do check the current growth rates for the last year as well as the previous 5 years. You will notice that Pakistan has managed to equal India's growth rate only and exactly once. And this years forecasts also put India's growth ahead of Pakistan's. Please dont talk in general terms. Pakistan is NOT growing at the same rate as India, it might grow much faster in the future, but we cannot predict that. We can only talk about the previous track records.

It's just going back n forth. Pakistan excelled beyond India just a couple years before and was second only to China.

It's just a matter of settling down for Pakistan and get back on track.

 

[Tang0]

Agreed. By outsider, I simply meant someone unfamiliar with Musilm culture and practice. As for Justifications for violence, Christianty specifically states that violence is an unacceptable option, didn't stop the Crusades though. Culturally, it is worth mentioning that early Musilm leaders were sometimes associated with violence of violent punishment. This differs from Bhudism and Christanity in that the originators of the religion did not endorse violence under any circuimstances. (There is a bit envolving a whip and moneychangers in a temple...but it is rarely used as any type of justification for violence.)

The original comment was to simply say that religion leads to diffrent views of what is acceptable behaivor in the populace as a whole, which in turn really does matter as to the rise of a superpower. Educated populaces have a tendency to reach a standard across cultures however. Now, I really am done, have to stop digging myself deeper

 

[Awesome]

The Prophet once said "Killing one human being in cold blood is equivalent to killing all of Humanity". Now we can play around with the definition of "Cold Blood" and continue with the violence.

 

[Bushroda]

Do check the current growth rates for the last year as well as the previous 5 years. You will notice that Pakistan has managed to equal India's growth rate only and exactly once. And this years forecasts also put India's growth ahead of Pakistan's. Please dont talk in general terms. Pakistan is NOT growing at the same rate as India, it might grow much faster in the future, but we cannot predict that. We can only talk about the previous track records.

Kamila Shamsie actually summed it up perfectly.
How Pakistanis see India | Special reports | Guardian Unlimited

But for a number of Pakistanis there remains doubt about whether the reversal of India's fortunes is real or just a giant bubble of hype. The Nation columnist Amina Jilani says: "Pakistan is loath to admit India even might be a growing power. In local idiom, we think we are both 'same to same'."

When I pushed another Pakistani for evidence that, deep down, Pakistan hasn't accepted its economically weaker position he responded: "The arms race. They test a missile, we test a missile."

 

[Awesome]

Kamila Shamsie actually summed it up perfectly.
How Pakistanis see India | Special reports | Guardian Unlimited

Bush, you should realize that we are a nation with high hopes and ideals of a better tomorrow.

What more evidence can you ask for after seeing a thread contemplating of making Pakistan a superpower where the news media is filled with descriptions of Pakistan's current woes...