Pakistan Army's VT-4 Main Battle Tank | Updates & Discussions

[iLION12345_1]

I thought PA already has 300 VT-4s in its fleet.

Besides VT-4s is PA looking to order 300 T-84 Oplot tanks from Ukraine; along with the degradation of the T-80 UDs?

As new Armies don't rely on big numbers of tanks, rather on smaller numbers of Modern Main Battle Tanks.

Are there any options open for PA for any Western Tanks?

PA is not ordering Oplots, Ukraine probably can’t even deliver if we order that many. Only Rebuild and maybe some upgrades for T80UD fleet.

That’s not true for all or really any army, only a few are downsizing their tank fleet in the name of modernization because they don’t need them, the only real example that comes to mind is UK because they’re an island with no threat of being invaded, they only need a small number of tanks for foreign deployments such as Afghanistan. Other countries like Germany and France also don’t need large tank armies because they don’t have a large ground threat to them + NATO factor for combined defense, but they’re not downsizing. They’re just modernizing their fleets as they have the money.

None of this applies to countries like Pakistan, india, China, Russia etc. these countries still need massive tank fleets to support their military doctrines, which means keeping older models in service to keep numbers up as well.
PAs armor numbers nearly match those of India, and the Tech is already far beyond what they operate.

Why would PA want western tanks though, they’re not good for our terrain and logistics, too big and heavy, they don’t have auto-loaders so diffrent training and doctrine, they use guns and ammo we don’t have and apart from Germany and US there are really no good “western” tanks on the market right now, and one of those is never gonna sell them. VT-4 is better than basically everything except Modern Leo 2s and Abrams and it actually fits in with our doctrine and supply chain.

 

[HRK]

View attachment 756626

PA is not ordering Oplots, Ukraine probably can’t even deliver if we order that many. Only Rebuild and maybe some upgrades for T80UD fleet.

That’s not true for all or really any army, only a few are downsizing their tank fleet in the name of modernization because they don’t need them, the only real example that comes to mind is UK because they’re an island with no threat of being invaded, they only need a small number of tanks for foreign deployments such as Afghanistan. Other countries like Germany and France also don’t need large tank armies because they don’t have a large ground threat to them + NATO factor for combined defense, but they’re not downsizing. They’re just modernizing their fleets as they have the money.

None of this applies to countries like Pakistan, india, China, Russia etc. these countries still need massive tank fleets to support their military doctrines, which means keeping older models in service to keep numbers up as well.
PAs armor numbers nearly match those of India, and the Tech is already far beyond what they operate.

Why would PA want western tanks though, they’re not good for our terrain and logistics, too big and heavy, they don’t have auto-loaders so diffrent training and doctrine, they use guns and ammo we don’t have and apart from Germany and US there are really no good “western” tanks on the market right now, and one of those is never gonna sell them. VT-4 is better than basically everything except Modern Leo 2s and Abrams and it actually fits in with our doctrine and supply chain.

this ID is the new incarnation of @nishan101 .....

 

[Sayfullah]

I'm not asking. Just sayinn

So their getting a active protection system but not gl-5?
Could gl-5 be put on our older tanks like type-85ug?

 

[Inception-06]

this ID is the new incarnation of @nishan101 .....

I thought it’s @Zarvan bye the way I miss the guy !

 

[Raja Porus]

Thought India would be the first one to introduce aps in the region.
Hate to see mech Warfare getting more complex

 

[Dazzler]

So their getting a active protection system but not gl-5?
Could gl-5 be put on our older tanks like type-85ug?

No APS in the package just yet

 

[TigerOfMysore]

We don't want so many tanks in its inventory.wa

Wait till you get asked about active protection.

VT-4s have active protection. The question is what is the level of digitization, do they have a digital battle field management system, do they have real-time threat detection and counter-measures, and generally what is the level of sophistication of the above mentioned suite of systems. That information is likely to remain classified for a long time.

APS are diverse, have generational evolution, and counter measure too are varied and diverse.

 

[iLION12345_1]

VT-4s have active protection. The question is what is the level of digitization, do they have a digital battle field management system, do they have real-time threat detection and counter-measures, and generally what is the level of sophistication of the above mentioned suite of systems. That information is likely to remain classified for a long time.

APS are diverse, have generational evolution, and counter measure too are varied and diverse.

Our VT4s do not have either a soft kill or a hard kill active protection system. They have Laser warning receivers though. GL5 hard kill APS is offered but not ordered yet.
Tank APS aren’t that diverse either, there’s only a few systems in the world, even fewer that are considered good, most working on similar principles, generally hard-kill systems are preferred like Trophy.

VT-4 has all of the things you mentioned (apart from active countermeasures, only smoke-screen), there’s many videos available online showing it’s digital BMS and other stuff. It’s the most digitized tank in the region by a major margin…among the most digitized in the world actually. Even more so than Chinese 99A and Russian T90MS. Not much that’s classified about it, it’s an export product after all.

 

[Bilal.]

Active countermeasures are a hazard to troops beside the tank. Maybe PA will deploy them selectively.

on a related topic I wonder if PA will be interested in VN17 IFV.

 

[Scorpiooo]

Our VT4s do not have either a soft kill or a hard kill active protection system. They have Laser warning receivers though. GL5 hard kill APS is offered but not ordered yet.
Tank APS aren’t that diverse either, there’s only a few systems in the world, even fewer that are considered good, most working on similar principles, generally hard-kill systems are preferred like Trophy.

VT-4 has all of the things you mentioned (apart from active countermeasures, only smoke-screen), there’s many videos available online showing it’s digital BMS and other stuff. It’s the most digitized tank in the region by a major margin…among the most digitized in the world actually. Even more so than Chinese 99A and Russian T90MS. Not much that’s classified about it, it’s an export product after all.

Still on papers VT4 seems advance then AK 2 specifications

 

[Abid123]

Thought India would be the first one to introduce aps in the region.
Hate to see mech Warfare getting more complex

Pakistan has 1116 3rd generation right now. That number needs to be increased to 2000.

 

[Scorpiooo]

Active countermeasures are a hazard to troops beside the tank. Maybe PA will deploy them selectively.

on a related topic I wonder if PA will be interested in VN17 IFV.

VN17 will be expensive as its based of VT5 body

 

[iLION12345_1]

Still on papers VT4 seems advance then AK 2 specifications

We don’t know what AK-2 specifications are so we can’t really say that. PA and HIT have never officially said anything about AK-2 at all, it’s all just been assumptions, considering AK-2 will come after VT-4 and likely not anytime soon, it will be building on VT-4 to improve whatever is possible. PA is already getting more upgrades on VT-4s.
However VT-4 is superior to AK-1 in a few metrics, even then, AK-1 is better than anything India operates. The best they have is closer to our T80UDs and AKs.

 

[Scorpiooo]

We don’t know what AK-2 specifications are so we can’t really say that. PA and HIT have never officially said anything about AK-2 at all, it’s all just been assumptions, considering AK-2 will come after VT-4 and likely not anytime soon, it will be building on VT-4 to improve whatever is possible. PA is already getting more upgrades on VT-4s.
However VT-4 is superior to AK-1 in a few metrics, even then, AK-1 is better than anything India operates. The best they have is closer to our T80UDs and AKs.

Yes possible that HIt enhance AK ll with some inheritance from VT4 and other from AK1 .
But question is HIT can deliver something equal or above VT-4 (big question mark)

 

[iLION12345_1]

Active countermeasures are a hazard to troops beside the tank. Maybe PA will deploy them selectively.

on a related topic I wonder if PA will be interested in VN17 IFV.

If they are employed infantry will get proper training on how to function with them. They don’t stand near a tank in combat anyways…ERA will blow a person to bits, so will any incoming fire towards the tank (fragments from enemy tank rounds)