Pakistan Army's VT-4 Main Battle Tank | Updates & Discussions

[iLION12345_1]

What is the reason and logic behind of inducting this many type of drones？

A few reasons. The most obvious is that all three services want a drone for each kind of role, surveillance, medium combat drone, heavy combat drone etc etc.
Hence these drones are spread out between the forces, each of the different arms (army, navy, Air Force) have purchased a different drone for their different category and needs. @farooqbhai007 did a good breakdown of which arm operates which drone in which capacity.

The second one could be financing, let’s say the PA wants 100 heavy drones, if it buys 100 from China at once, maybe they can’t get a good deal, but if they buy 30 from China, 30 from Turkey and make 30 themselves, maybe then they have enough money to get near their desired number. This is sort of a common thing in the forces, especially the PA, they don’t have the money to buy a lot of one thing, so in a game of logistical and financial balancing, they sometimes opt to go to several different vendors and get multiple good deals and financing lines to reach their requirements.

There’s also the “don’t put all your eggs in one basket” approach with drones. Turkish drones are more readily available for local production, modification and TOT, Chinese drones are not, however Chinese drones can be delivered by China much quicker than Turkey can deliver its drones because some of them aren’t ready and their production base isn’t as big.

Basically there’s a ton of factors involved related to money, politics and all the different roles different drones can do.

 

[Inception-06]

Thank you for your time. Good to know your point of view & valid points. I just wanted to know the urgency PA felt with such dire economic situations that they give priority to the tanks.

Another questions below about VT-4 or tanks in general deployments. Reply whenever you get time. Thanks in advance.

Where these VT-4s are deployed in PA? I mean which division. Also, Where actually Army keeps its Tanks in General ? I mean like for airforce, we can see each airbase from gmaps satellite view and see the hangars and we know here the fighter jets are located. For, the army or armoured divisions, I am unable to locate such. All I see is cantonments, residential areas and buildings / some sheds. So is it intentional setup that the enemy may not know exact location where the armoured vehicles & Tanks are located ? However, I do see a dozen or so hangars in the Gujranwala Cantt (from the satellite view). They look quite obvious for armoured corp. So, I am bit curious where the rest of huge number of tanks & APCs?. Also, another related question that Most of the cantonments are now almost within the cities. So this military gear is usually inside the cantonments / inside cities ? Or these are stationed outside the cities for easy access towards the border / action area ?
I am asking these layman questions because out of curiosity I spend lot of time seeing LOC through the maps. So a layman's concept is that Army is sitting around the LOC and guarding the borders. But infact, in the peace times there's nothing around LOC. All I see is a small posts (maybe for 10-15 soldiers) after every 20-30 kms and nothing to back it up with a bigger military base. So, I assume the most of military is sitting within the cities parameters (within the cantonments) ? Am I right ? or do we have bases / tanks positioned forward at the LOC ?.

and last question about PA strength. Common knowledge is that its about 600,000 active troops. So my question is this 6 lacs army is all combat units ? Or does it include the personal staff, PAs, sectaries, drivers, gardeners, plumbers, golf courses maintenance staff, the staff at various CMH (hospitals) etc. Because an institution as large as PA needs to employs all non-combat staff as well. So total no of employees is 6 Lacs OR the combat units only are 6 lacs. If grand total is 6 lac then how many are the combat units.

Thanks.

Your are collecting sensitiv informations for which purpose ?

 

[Cookie Monster]

Your are collecting sensitiv informations for which purpose ?

My personal guess...judging by a newly made account and a ton of questions regarding Pak military's equipment, logistics, deployment, etc.
...is that he is some Raj47 type...posing as a Pakistani...trying to become an expert...thinking himself smart. Little does he know that the person he is asking will not divulge anything that's not already public knowledge.

Or I could be wrong...and he could be someone who is truly curious and just trying to add to his knowledge by asking a knowledgeable member.

 

[farooqbhai007]

Your are collecting sensitiv informations for which purpose ?

Bro check out the "golf course maintenance staff" line lmao.

 

[CivilianSupremacy]

Your are collecting sensitiv informations for which purpose ?

My personal guess...judging by a newly made account and a ton of questions regarding Pak military's equipment, logistics, deployment, etc.
...is that he is some Raj47 type...posing as a Pakistani...trying to become an expert...thinking himself smart. Little does he know that the person he is asking will not divulge anything that's not already public knowledge.

Or I could be wrong...and he could be someone who is truly curious and just trying to add to his knowledge by asking a knowledgeable member.

Well, if these are really sensitive information. Then you or the person I am asking can simply deny the information and filter out only the relevant information.

The problem in the forums is that 'experts' (by only just number of posts) think they really are experts (I am talking generally . I am not specific to anyone) and they suppress curiosity. I just do not shy to ask the questions which comes to my mind. That shold be the core reason for the forums to be constructive. We learn from each other's experiences and knowledge.

As far as sensitive information is concerned, What I asked is certainly not a sensitive information. It wold be like a common knowledge for indian military already. If a nobody like me can view everything on publicly available satellite imagery- then you must be aware that how much information will be available to people whose job is to keep an eye on PA. Believe me, indian military will not send a random new account on Pakistani forum to extract "sensitive information".

Our problem in our country is that everything related to Military is so sacred that you can't even ask questions. We as Pakistanis need to know how our military functions, we pay for the military with out taxes. There is no civilian audit on the largest organisation of the country. Anyways, all these things can be asked in a perfect world where there is complete civilian supremacy.

I maybe the new member, but I know each one of you as I anonymously keep reading forums and usually my questions gets answered by just looking at the archives. I keep following these stuff even when this forum was non-existent and there used to be pafdef and pakistanidefenceforum.com sites.

Anyways, now I tell you why I am curious about this common knowledge. (its not sensitive, do not sell me this crap please ) Because, I sincerely do not want to criticize PA because of lack of my information. I just want to know they are always prepared.

I appreciate @iLION12345_1 for giving me insights into VT-4 deal which I earlier was thinking to be not appropriate in current economic conditions. I watched the video he recommended and I regard the points in his reply. Tanks may not be the end today. But the world is going into that direction anyways. A Autonomous AI controlled vehicle launching swarms of lethal loitering drones / ammunition. Each one able to target / locate and destroy armoured vehicles is the future. Ofcourse by then tanks would have employed better protections but more more huge money is required to keep up the defenses of the tanks then it is required for aggressive guided ammunition to kill opponents. So, tanks will remain part of battlefield for a long time but support systems / guided artillery / anti tanks and plethora of drones will accompany them. So its all about perfect balance. I am no way as "expert" as you guys here are. Infact I am a noob. My domain is technology.

​

Bro check out the "golf course maintenance staff" line lmao.

What do you think who I am ? and what do you deduce from this like Farooq Bhai ? and what's my purpose would be ?

I suggest not to come to conclusions that quick.

 

[CivilianSupremacy]

Bro check out the "golf course maintenance staff" line lmao.

Farooq Bhai..

The military should not be a "holy" organization where you can't ask questions. The information I am seeking should even be available on military websites. Citizen of Pakistan should know, its our basic right. How much are the employees. How much is combat force and how much are non-combat employees. Whats really wrong in giving an example for "golf course maintenance staff" along with many other roles which naturally PA employs ?

Can't really get into this mindset of this insecurity. I am here to gain information from you guys so that I don't end up criticizing PA unfairly. Some of you guys, the military geeks can clear the common perceptions more precisely. If you will just mock then it will be counter production and indication that perceptions against PA are real . Which I believe is not correct entirely.

 

[PakFactor]

Farooq Bhai..

The military should not be a "holy" organization where you can't ask questions. The information I am seeking should even be available on military websites. Citizen of Pakistan should know, its our basic right. How much are the employees. How much is combat force and how much are non-combat employees. Whats really wrong in giving an example for "golf course maintenance staff" along with many other roles which naturally PA employs ?

Can't really get into this mindset of this insecurity. I am here to gain information from you guys so that I don't end up criticizing PA unfairly. Some of you guys, the military geeks can clear the common perceptions more precisely. If you will just mock then it will be counter production and indication that perceptions against PA are real . Which I believe is not correct entirely.

The US Military doesn't get into detailed publication of information your requesting.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Well, if these are really sensitive information. Then you or the person I am asking can simply deny the information and filter out only the relevant information.

The problem in the forums is that 'experts' (by only just number of posts) think they really are experts (I am talking generally . I am not specific to anyone) and they suppress curiosity. I just do not shy to ask the questions which comes to my mind. That shold be the core reason for the forums to be constructive. We learn from each other's experiences and knowledge.

As far as sensitive information is concerned, What I asked is certainly not a sensitive information. It wold be like a common knowledge for indian military already. If a nobody like me can view everything on publicly available satellite imagery- then you must be aware that how much information will be available to people whose job is to keep an eye on PA. Believe me, indian military will not send a random new account on Pakistani forum to extract "sensitive information".

Our problem in our country is that everything related to Military is so sacred that you can't even ask questions. We as Pakistanis need to know how our military functions, we pay for the military with out taxes. There is no civilian audit on the largest organisation of the country. Anyways, all these things can be asked in a perfect world where there is complete civilian supremacy.

I maybe the new member, but I know each one of you as I anonymously keep reading forums and usually my questions gets answered by just looking at the archives. I keep following these stuff even when this forum was non-existent and there used to be pafdef and pakistanidefenceforum.com sites.

Anyways, now I tell you why I am curious about this common knowledge. (its not sensitive, do not sell me this crap please ) Because, I sincerely do not want to criticize PA because of lack of my information. I just want to know they are always prepared.

I appreciate @iLION12345_1 for giving me insights into VT-4 deal which I earlier was thinking to be not appropriate in current economic conditions. I watched the video he recommended and I regard the points in his reply. Tanks may not be the end today. But the world is going into that direction anyways. A Autonomous AI controlled vehicle launching swarms of lethal loitering drones / ammunition. Each one able to target / locate and destroy armoured vehicles is the future. Ofcourse by then tanks would have employed better protections but more more huge money is required to keep up the defenses of the tanks then it is required for aggressive guided ammunition to kill opponents. So, tanks will remain part of battlefield for a long time but support systems / guided artillery / anti tanks and plethora of drones will accompany them. So its all about perfect balance. I am no way as "expert" as you guys here are. Infact I am a noob. My domain is technology.

​

What do you think who I am ? and what do you deduce from this like Farooq Bhai ? and what's my purpose would be ?

I suggest not to come to conclusions that quick.

You didn't need to quote me...
...nobody is trying to kill ur curiosity.

Any sensible member here knows Indian army is smarter in its Intel collection than having a random person create an account here and ask questions. I also already wrote that the member u r asking won't be giving out any sensitive information...it's already available publicly.

What I said was..."some Raj47 type" based on ur comment of using satellite imagery u mentioned...it was part light humor...part based on ur creating new account and asking a plethora of really specific questions...which to put bluntly would raise suspicions(hence why Inception 06 asked)...
...that's mainly bcuz it's not the norm. Most members who are that curious and have that many questions...do lots of research on their own first...which requires a lot of reading.

BUT I did take into account...that u could be genuinely curious and it only seems sus but is not so. Hence why there was no need for u to respond and justify.

 

[TheSolution]

Rhe Pakistani forces have one of the most versatile and capable drone fleets on the planet. If there’s anything they have literally put all their money on, it’s drones. WL-1, WL-2, CH4B, Akinci, TB-2, Anka, Shahpar 2, Luna, Burraq, Uqab NG is there any type of drone on planet earth PA/PAF/PN hasn’t bought?

Was Anka ever confirmed?

There is this unconfirmed rumour here too

https://twitter.com/x/status/1590418997690142721

 

[LeGenD]

I spent several hours fixing the Pakistan army’s equipment page on Wikipedia, fixed the numbers, added sources etc etc. Was reversed by an Indian moderator within minutes and I was banned from the page. Did the same with the PAFs page over a year later, got IP banned.

It can be helpful to explain EDITS in the Talk Page of an article. More information in following link:

Wikipedia:Dispute resolution - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[iLION12345_1]

Was Anka ever confirmed?

There is this unconfirmed rumour here too

https://twitter.com/x/status/1590418997690142721

I doubt any of our forces are actually getting ANKA, but interest was shown and some of its tech might show up in PACs local MALE drone.

 

[Zarvan]

I doubt any of our forces are actually getting ANKA, but interest was shown and some of its tech might show up in PACs local MALE drone.

PAC local Male drone according to my reports is dead.

 

[Inception-06]

Why

PAC local Male drone according to my reports is dead.

?

 

[Beast]

Why

?

Funds funds funds..

Build factory, build research, build production plant, train personnel for all these manufacturing and facilities. All these will cost more than just buying ready available. Let just be practical.

Everybody wish they can build their own but is it feasible in terms of cost? Japan insist on manufacturing the AH-64 gunship, believing it will upgrade Japan defense industries thru tech and skill personnel. But it end up bankrupt Kawasaki defence industries becos per unit cost it much more than what US sold to them per unit.

If it can bankrupt a rich country defense industries like Japan. What makes u Pakistan which short of fund will flare better?

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

PAKISTAN EXPANDS VT-4 DEAL BY HUNDREDS MORE TANKS, TRANSFER OF TECHNOLOGY