Pakistan Army's VT-4 Main Battle Tank | Updates & Discussions

[Reichmarshal]

initially when vt 4 failed trials in Pakistan, China came back n offered the T99 to PA

 

[iLION12345_1]

Considering the presence of older models of other tanks , still room to grow VT-4 numbers or even bring in the Turkish Tank

VT-4 increase figures by 100%
Altay : 25% <Place an Order 300 Units> and retire the very old platforms in equal amount

Would be nice to fill this gap between VT-4 and Al-Khalid Tanks
VT-4 Numbers are quite modest figures
View attachment 815168

**The older platforms could also be moved to Western Front across the Pakistan/Afghanistan border or Supporting FC role in Balochistan

Since there are almost 3 Tank platforms which ideally should be retired due to Technological advancement on battlefield , we need to induct at least 1 more Modern Platform in order to compensate the numbers on the battle field

Type 85UG is better than the Al-Zarrar in nearly every metric.

There is absolutely no need for Another tank at all. The VT-4 and Al-Khalid have enough of a lead over IA tanks already, more platforms would be a massive waste of money, especially ones from the west or Turkey that don’t fit into our logistics systems at all; they can’t cross our bridges, can’t use our ammo and have no shared parts with the rest of the fleet. It’s like equipping an army with AKs and then handing an M4 to one in every 100 soldiers and expect them to be useful.

PA has enough older types to replace already, they need to spend the money to buy more VT-4s and AK-1s (Also AK-2s in the near future) in order to replace those, not buy another very expensive platform. PA also needs money for many other acquisitions that are much likely a lot higher on the priority list, like gunships, IFVs and modern APCs.

And lastly, the Altay isn’t ready, and won’t be for a few years. So let’s please not get into that. It will never serve in the PA unless we massively modify it to use existing ammo and induct an entirely new fleet of bridge layers, transport and Recovery vehicles in the PA to cater for it.

 

[Inception-06]

khurramkareem

Then welcome back, after 11 years!

 

[farooqbhai007]

THen welcome back, after 11 years!

One message a year then disappear

 

[Scorpiooo]

It’s not my fault you know literally next to nothing about the basics of tank design, tank gun design, or tank ammunition design, otherwise I’d tell you just how poor Chinese tanks are in all three regions when compared to any modern western or Russian tank, it’s literally like China made a design in the 50s (which they copied from what T55…) and then forgot to update it until they got a T72…Which they also copied and made the ZTZ-99…

You can put as much technology as you want on a tank, the basic design issues will remain.

Which tank is best in your opinion now a days ?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

initially when vt 4 failed trials in Pakistan, China came back n offered the T99 to PA

In that case why did Pakistan decided to pick VT-4 if it failed trials ?
Which tank is more superior?

VT-4 VS T99 ?

I feel , Pakistan still also needs to slightly improve the count for Tanks
The current Al Khalid Program is manufacturing Tanks at a very Slow-Moderate pace

The numbers need to improve a bit


T99 ~ Service Entry Year 2001, only 1200 Units constructed (Manufactured for China)

VT-4 , Service Entry 2017

Based on just the initial launch of the Tank , VT-4 Should have latest knowledge and performance improvements over the older model i.e. T-99

It has almost 20 year worth of lessons learned form the previous Chinese Tank Program integrated into it's development

From Modernization perspective it makes sense why the newer tank may have been chosen by Pakistan Army

 

[iLION12345_1]

Which tank is best in your opinion now a days ?

In terms of pure technology and capability, the T-14. Realistically, the Leopard 2A7V. Especially once they give it the 130MM gun, it’s already gotten trophy Hard kill APS.

 

[Beast]

In that case why did Pakistan decided to pick VT-4 if it failed trials ?
Which tank is more superior?

VT-4 VS T99 ?

You trust his BS? VT-4 failed trial and China offered Typ99A but PA still buys VT-4.

End up Type99A never export? What kind of logic is this?

 

[iLION12345_1]

In that case why did Pakistan decided to pick VT-4 if it failed trials ?
Which tank is more superior?

VT-4 VS T99 ?

I feel , Pakistan still also needs to slightly improve the count for Tanks
The current Al Khalid Program is manufacturing Tanks at a very Slow-Moderate pace

The numbers need to improve a bit


T99 ~ Service Entry Year 2001, only 1200 Units constructed (Manufactured for China)

VT-4 , Service Entry 2017

Based on just the initial launch of the Tank , VT-4 Should have latest knowledge and performance improvements over the older model i.e. T-99

It has almost 20 year worth of lessons learned form the previous Chinese Tank Program integrated into it's development

From Modernization perspective it makes sense why the newer tank may have been chosen by Pakistan Army

Regardless of wether his claims are true or not (there is no source to back it up apart from hearsay), the VT-4P is a better pick for the PA due to logistical and cost reasons. The ZTZ-99A cannot share ammo and other parts from our current tanks unlike VT-4. And the VT-4 did not fail trials in Pakistan. PA simply had higher requirements that none of the options met, so it conducted re-trials with better variants, that’s where the upgraded VT-4 PA currently operates came from.

The ZTZ-99A is not 20 years old. The original ZTZ-99 is. It’s been upgraded massively since.

 

[Beast]

Regardless of wether his claims are true or not (there is no source to back it up apart from hearsay), the VT-4P is a better pick for the PA due to logistical and cost reasons. The ZTZ-99A cannot share ammo and other parts from our current tanks unlike VT-4. And the VT-4 did not fail trials in Pakistan. PA simply had higher requirements that none of the options met, so it conducted re-trials with better variants, that’s where the upgraded VT-4 PA currently operates came from.

The ZTZ-99A is not 20 years old. The original ZTZ-99 is. It’s been upgraded massively since.

There will be never a product which totally fits a customers requirement during tender trial process. Customer do feed back to supplier of the preference and option they wish to implement.
From my source, no major failure of VT-4 engine during the trial, if a customer preference requirement is considered as failure. I dont know what to say. There are simply too many misinfo by some individual try to spread during the initial trial period of VT-4. Like claiming the VT-4 suffer huge engine failure during the process. That is simply not true.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

@Beast
My view was VT-4 is a more mature and more scientifically better , enhanced Tank as it as 20 years of newer research and Technology behind it

Most likely when initially it was Trialed Pakistan may have requested some enhancements for their own needs and once the additions were made in design Pakistan Army purchased the Tanks

Since the deal was signed it is likely because the VT-4 as passed all performance matrix

 

[Oom]

I read that the Thais complain armour on the VT4 is much thinner then the T-80 oplot they initially planned to purchase. Given that it will most likely to alloted to our strike corps, can the VT4 withstand barrages of ATGMs ?

 

[Abid123]

If Pakistan had the money to run it, it’d fit the terrain just fine. Americans used them in Iraqi and Iranian deserts to much success. It’s more that the tank may not fit our doctrine. It’s arguably one of the best tanks in service anywhere, just for some countries, not all.

I dont think money is the reason. The Egyptians have a huge fleet of 1000+ M1 Abrams. You are probably right about it not fiting our doctrine. At the end of the day it was rejected for a reason.

 

[PakFactor]

I read that the Thais complain armour on the VT4 is much thinner then the T-80 oplot they initially planned to purchase. Given that it will most likely to alloted to our strike corps, can the VT4 withstand barrages of ATGMs ?

I doubt it withstand a barrage of ATGMs.

 

[Beast]

@Beast
My view was VT-4 is a more mature and more scientifically better , enhanced Tank as it as 20 years of newer research and Technology behind it

Most likely when initially it was Trialed Pakistan may have requested some enhancements for their own needs and once the additions were made in design Pakistan Army purchased the Tanks

Since the deal was signed it is likely because the VT-4 as passed all performance matrix

PA would not buy it, if it did not meet their requirement. There is no product that is perfect in every aspect but what fit them best out of others.