Pakistan Army's VT-4 Main Battle Tank | Updates & Discussions

[Beast]

By hybrid he means it has more upgrades over the other VT-4s, which is correct, It has 1500 HP compared to 1300, FY-4 ERA instead of FY-2 (plus ERA on the roof), Better stabilizers etc.
The engine, armor and stabilizer upgrades were requested as these faults were found in VT-4 during testing, The engine (original one) had a couple of failures, the original stabilizers developed some issues and the protection was rather poor compared to Oplot (then again, oplot is one of the most protected tanks currently in service.)

According to my source, there is no engine issue. The source is from Chinese engineer send to Pakistan involved in the trial. In fact, the engine and mobility are the most impressive thing that impress PA during the VT-4 trial. If not, why VT-4 is selected? Of cos, there are other matters that involved but most issue for VT-4 trial are minor and mostly are preference require by PA to suit their operation.

 

[iLION12345_1]

According to my source, there is no engine issue. The source is from Chinese engineer send to Pakistan involved in the trial. In fact, the engine and mobility are the most impressive thing that impress PA during the VT-4 trial. If not, why VT-4 is selected? Of cos, there are other matters that involved but most issue for VT-4 trial are minor and mostly are preference require by PA to suit their operation.

you cannot prove the authenticity of your source. The VT-4s engine failed twice in Pakistani desert trials, and if the PA was so impressed by the mobility, why did they ask them to increase the horsepower? Not to mention both the Thais and Pakistanis confirmed It has poor armor as compared to Oplot (before FY4 anyways).
‘I know you are very nationalistic, but nothing anyone makes is perfect, the VT-4 is one of the best tanks in service today, but it had its issues too, like any other machine, the difference is that the chinese were very efficient and helpful, they quickly fixed any issue that came up with it, that’s what’s very impressive in this case.

 

[Beast]

you cannot prove the authenticity of your source. The VT-4s engine failed twice in Pakistani desert trials, and if the PA was so impressed by the mobility, why did they ask them to increase the horsepower? Not to mention both the Thais and Pakistanis confirmed It has poor armor as compared to Oplot (before FY4 anyways).
‘I know you are very nationalistic, but nothing anyone makes is perfect, the VT-4 is one of the best tanks in service today, but it had its issues too, like any other machine, the difference is that the chinese were very efficient and helpful, they quickly fixed any issue that came up with it, that’s what’s very impressive in this case.

Neither you can prove your authenticity. It was thru Chinese forum we communicate thru an engineer working for the project. It was also thru his confirmation, we have beforehand knew VT-4 will win the tender.
I am not nationalistic, it more like you cant accept VT-4 is the better one of all from start. I dont know why you all love to criticize a product chosen by PA with so many misinfo. You seems didnt have much faith on PA professional handling of the tank selection? Will PA pick an ill qualify product for its need?

 

[iLION12345_1]

Neither you can prove your authenticity. It was thru Chinese forum we communicate thru an engineer working for the project. It was also thru his confirmation, we have beforehand knew VT-4 will win the tender.
I am not nationalistic, it more like you cant accept VT-4 is the better one of all from start. I dont know why you all love to criticize a product chosen by PA with so many misinfo. You seems didnt have much faith on PA professional handling of the tank selection? Will PA pick an ill qualify product for its need?

I can prove my authenticity, scroll back in this thread. Serving members of the PA have confirmed what i said.
I do not mistrust either the PA or Chinese products, I am merely a realist. I see the fault where there is one, Chinese products are not perfect. I never said the oplot was a better tank than the VT-4, I said it is better protected (or was without FY-4), which is a fact, the VT-4s engines failing before they were upgraded is also a fact. But in all other metrics, VT-4 proved superior, hence it was picked. Not to mention Ukraine’s delivery issued meant any shortcomings the VT-4 had were made up. You claim you are not nationalistic but argue with anyone on the forum who even says one thing against Chinese products, even when it’s a fact.

 

[Beast]

I can prove my authenticity, scroll back in this thread. Serving members of the PA have confirmed what i said.
I do not mistrust either the PA or Chinese products, I am merely a realist. I see the fault where there is one, Chinese products are not perfect. I never said the oplot was a better tank than the VT-4, I said it is better protected (or was without FY-4), which is a fact, the VT-4s engines failing before they were upgraded is also a fact. But in all other metrics, VT-4 proved superior, hence it was picked. Not to mention Ukraine’s delivery issued meant any shortcomings the VT-4 had were made up. You claim you are not nationalistic but argue with anyone on the forum who even says one thing against Chinese products, even when it’s a fact.

Really? I guess you really failed to scroll the very early of this thread and see what I have post. I have mention very early during the tender that I am confident of VT-4 winning it. Not a single one believed and the rest is history.

I will not reply this again since a Pakistan member ask me to let bygones be bygones since VT-4 as what I mention, won this tender. This will be my last reply to you regarding the selection story. If you are really interested, scroll from page 1 all the way to last. And see how the story unfold.

 

[Reichmarshal]

According to my source, there is no engine issue. The source is from Chinese engineer send to Pakistan involved in the trial. In fact, the engine and mobility are the most impressive thing that impress PA during the VT-4 trial. If not, why VT-4 is selected? Of cos, there are other matters that involved but most issue for VT-4 trial are minor and mostly are preference require by PA to suit their operation.

beast is right and if you pick up my posts from the time of the trials I have constantly stated that the best part about vt4 is the engine. PA was so impressed by the engine that initially they only wanted the engine.

 

[iLION12345_1]

beast is right and if you pick up my posts from the time of the trials I have constantly stated that the best part about vt4 is the engine. PA was so impressed by the engine that initially they only wanted the engine.

I am aware. I did not call the engine bad, simply that it had issues, they were addressed however, the engine in our VT-4s is not changed, simply modified to increase the power and reliability
The PA was so impressed by it because it is so much superior to the Ukrainian 6TD series used in AK and oplot, that series has very poor torque for the HP it makes, but is very compact. The Chinese series on the other hand makes excellent torque and HP while also being almost as reliable and is still compact enough. By all means, A very good series of engines.

 

[HRK]

I just dropped the post in the wrong place, you didn't need to like it

its not about post or the poster but the information .... even if shared mistakenly by poster ....

 

[Scorpiooo]

When vt4 failed the trials china offered to sell type 99a to Pakistan.
But PA went for the hybrid of vt 4 type 99a.

Now this certainly does not means that our vt4 is type 99...all the modifications demanded by PA came from type 99a. It's a one of a kind

Why PA was not interested in type 99A , it the cost factors or is its size and specifications?

 

[iLION12345_1]

Why PA was not interested in type 99A , it the cost factors or is its size and specifications?

Logistics, size, price, doctrine, a large defense acquisition has a lot of factors influencing it.
PA was somewhat interested in it after the first VT-4 trials, but the upgraded version of VT-4 fits our requirements and was a better deal. Keep in mind that regardless of PAs interest, ZTZ-99A was never intended or offered for export, so it wouldn’t matter anyways.

 

[Scorpiooo]

Type 99A was never offered to Pakistan. If Anything based on the ZTZ-99 platform is offered to Pakistan, it will not have 125-III APFSDS and the ZTZ-99As hybrid APS (though I think in that regard, GL5 APS is superior anyways.) it will be a downgraded version between 99A and base 99. If 99A was offered to Pakistan and they picked VT-4 over it then all of those who made that decision should be fired.

The VT-4 did not come from Type 99A, it came from VT-1A platform upgraded with Type 99A technologies. You can compare them side by side, the Hull is literally the same shape as VT-1A with modifications to turret, base armor and engine compartment. That doesn’t mean it’s an upgraded VT-1A or Type 96, it’s a unique tank, rather it’s an evolution of those designs and not a part of the ZTZ-99 family.
Pakistans VT-4 is one of a kind, that’s for sure, it’s much better compared to what Thailand and Nigeria got, but it’s not based of 99A. That’s why I said our VT-4s are technologically and mobility wise close to 99A, but not when it comes to protection and firepower.

Exact figures are unknown, sources state 800MM+, has the 700MM figure been reported anywhere?
View attachment 741441

Exactly if it is offered and cost difference was not that much, they why PA goes for lower end instead of higher end options.
Totally confusing, why china want to share downgraded specifications, they already working on much higher variants

Logistics, size, price, doctrine, a large defense acquisition has a lot of factors influencing it.
PA was somewhat interested in it after the first VT-4 trials, but the upgraded version of VT-4 fits our requirements and was a better deal. Keep in mind that regardless of PAs interest, ZTZ-99A was never intended or offered for export, so it wouldn’t matter anyways.

Yes never heard about 99A option for PA. But may be .. cant say

VT-4 id 5 million what is cost for type 99A ?

 

[iLION12345_1]

Exactly if it is offered and cost difference was not that much, they why PA goes for lower end instead of higher end options.
Totally confusing, why china want to share downgraded specifications, they already working on much higher variants

All countries keep their best stuff for themselves, since they don’t want the tech to get out that quickly. VT-4 is not a bad tank by any means, it’s the best one in the subcontinent and one of the most modern ones in the world, Especially Pakistans VT-4s, they’re not far off the ZTZ-99A in most metrics.
ZTZ-99A is bigger, expensive and hence better. Like how JF-17 and F16 are both 4th Gen aircraft but one is better simply because it’s bigger and expensive.

Keep in mind China often makes an exception for Pakistan, selling us the non-downgraded variants of their weapons instead of the export variants, this is seen in the Hangor submarines as well as our VT4s. Also seen in the Z-10s that were offered to us, plus some of the Weapon systems of the JF like it’s EW pod. FY4 ERA is not exported to anyone else. In the past 125-IIM DU rounds were also not exported to anyone, but Pakistan got them (granted we opted for our local Naiza instead)

 

[Abid123]

Exactly if it is offered and cost difference was not that much, they why PA goes for lower end instead of higher end options.
Totally confusing, why china want to share downgraded specifications, they already working on much higher variants

Yes never heard about 99A option for PA. But may be .. cant say

VT-4 id 5 million what is cost for type 99A ?

The cost of Type 99A is around the same as VT-4 I think.

 

[Scorpiooo]

I am aware. I did not call the engine bad, simply that it had issues, they were addressed however, the engine in our VT-4s is not changed, simply modified to increase the power and reliability
The PA was so impressed by it because it is so much superior to the Ukrainian 6TD series used in AK and oplot, that series has very poor torque for the HP it makes, but is very compact. The Chinese series on the other hand makes excellent torque and HP while also being almost as reliable and is still compact enough. By all means, A very good series of engines.

Oplot was never bad option, only problem is its supply chain, even i heard they PA even considered going for 2 plateform due to pros and cons

 

[Scorpiooo]

Lets hope when Chinese have CSU-152 based tank came to production. They Type 99A will available as it is