Pakistan Army's VT-4 Main Battle Tank | Updates & Discussions

[Readerdefence]

Sorry but VT 4 hardly impressed any one in the Army when it first came to trials. OPLOT was the one which we liked only issue was engine. Both got changes so let see who wins now[/QUOTE
Hi any info about the changes in both of them
Thank you

 

[Beast]

Says who, link please?

Misconception and his link is from a fake so called insider from facebook.

Nothing is from PA. Oplot M is already rejected by RTA. Not only becos the delivery date is delayed. What they received is not up to expectation and a retrial carry out which VT-4 beats all competitors that included Leopard 2.

 

[waz]

Misconception and his link is from a fake so called insider from facebook.

Nothing is from PA. Oplot M is already rejected by RTA. Not only becos the delivery date is delayed. What they received is not up to expectation and a retrial carry out which VT-4 beats all competitors that included Leopard 2.

Yep there was many issues with it. They even questioned build quality....

 

[Sine Nomine]

@waz But Ukrainian are offering,i think manufacturing of 6TD-2 Engine in Pakistan,and it is very lurcative deal to Pakistan because Ak-2 would also benfit from it.

 

[razgriz19]

One of the members here pointed out that that unit was not actually M1A1 but an inferior variant.

Anyways, it is possible that M1A1 Abrams was not prepared for operations in Bahawalpur type environment back then [in the 1980s]. Additionally, we didn't give US a chance to customize its product per our needs. For example, we could have requested a solution for the issue of "sand ingestion" from this company: http://donaldsonaerospace-defense.c...F112255-Military-Ground-Vehicle-Equipment.pdf

"The M1 Abrams requirement pioneered the first PJAC Air Cleaner back in 1991. On a 1,560 mile dust course at Yuma Proving Grounds, a non-pulse jet equipped M1A1 had to stop and service filters ten times. The M1A1 equipped with the PJAC never had to stop to service the filters. Now the PJAC is offered on many ground vehicles and is used by governments all over the world."

Source: http://www.emea.donaldson.com/en/aircraft/support/datalibrary/071714.pdf

What happened in Bahawalpur in the 1980s, is completely invalid today. If we are to judge an M1 MBT variant today, we need to concentrate on its evolution over the course of years and what it can do today. We need to stop living in the past.

As for pitting Type-59 against an M1A1 Abrams in the battlefield; Iraq did this in 1991 and results are in front of everybody. Just another reason to not take Bahawalpur-based account [very] seriously.

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Based on revelations in this very forum, I get the impression that we are giving developers of Oplot-M and VT-4 ample chance to customize their products per our needs. Both failed in their [initial] trials in Bahawalpur, right?

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Can you tell me why we testing Oplot-M and VT-4 when we have Al-Khalid?


You seem to look at these matters in black-and-white ways, my friend. A battlefield scenario of the scale and intensity of the Persian Gulf War (1991) is likely to establish conditions for engagements [each varying from the other] in which superiority of weaponry and training of soldiers will be subject to stresses unlike in any trials.

Battle of 73 Easting occurred in "stormy conditions," and without involvement of Apaches and A10s.

Details in following sources:-

https://www.defensemedianetwork.com...ng-and-the-road-to-the-synthetic-battlefield/
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/10-lessons-the-battle-73-easting-15332
https://www.quora.com/During-the-ma...r-not-by-the-main-gun-of-opposing-Iraqi-tanks

A notable account:-

"I say that because there was at least one well-publicized instance of an M1A1 tank from the 24th Mechanized Division taking direct fire from sub-1000m range by T-72 tanks, three of them. The first shot bounced off the frontal turret armor with the M1A1 crew destroying that tank. The second shot, from a different tank, also bounced off the frontal turret armor, and the M1A1's crew destroyed that tank. The third shot, from a third tank at about 400 m penetrated the aluminum side sponson box of the turret but not the turret armor itself. This tank then hid behind a sand berm, which the M1A1 crew shot through and destroyed the third tank."

Want to test Al-Khalid or Type-59 like that? Good luck.

Al-Khalid is a fairly decent MBT and might endure a modern-era round or two but Type-59 will be toast in a single shot.

You are forgetting something very important, especially with the last battle scenario you mentioned M1 encountered, US army tanks are DIFFERENT than any other M1 operators.
Their armour is much, much stronger than those being operated by Mid east or any other country. Hence the reason why Israel, and most NATO countries developed their own tanks as US wouldn't provide them the same armour capability as its own army.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Ukraine has some serious internal issues that has seriously effected its defense projects. Therefore, engaging in a long term program, such as an AFV project, with them would be risky now specially with some thaw in Pak Russia relations.

 

[Mumm-Ra]

Ukraine has some serious internal issues that has seriously effected its defense projects. Therefore, engaging in a long term program, such as an AFV project, with them would be risky now specially with some thaw in Pak Russia relations.

It will take a major diplomatic effort to get Russia to collaborate with us on MBTs or AFVs. There is not much favourable view of the T-90 in Pakistan. That leaves room for only AFV or maybe APCs to be bought from Russia. Hence, we still have the fundamental problem of replacing our MBTs. The Western Tanks are either too heavy, too expensive or out of bounds for us. The Chinese tank is not up to standard as stated above. So that leaves only Ukraine for collaboration in MBTs. Kinda like stuck being between a rock and a hard place

 

[帅的一匹]

It will take a major diplomatic effort to get Russia to collaborate with us on MBTs or AFVs. There is not much favourable view of the T-90 in Pakistan. That leaves room for only AFV or maybe APCs to be bought from Russia. Hence, we still have the fundamental problem of replacing our MBTs. The Western Tanks are either too heavy, too expensive or out of bounds for us. The Chinese tank is not up to standard as stated above. So that leaves only Ukraine for collaboration in MBTs. Kinda like stuck being between a rock and a hard place

That's an irresponsible conclusion.

 

[KAI KAI Baloch]

It will take a major diplomatic effort to get Russia to collaborate with us on MBTs or AFVs. There is not much favourable view of the T-90 in Pakistan. That leaves room for only AFV or maybe APCs to be bought from Russia. Hence, we still have the fundamental problem of replacing our MBTs. The Western Tanks are either too heavy, too expensive or out of bounds for us. The Chinese tank is not up to standard as stated above. So that leaves only Ukraine for collaboration in MBTs. Kinda like stuck being between a rock and a hard place

i heard otherwise that T90 MS (with diesel engine) is what the PA wants........... but again i might be wrong

 

[Mumm-Ra]

That's an irresponsible conclusion.

It says right up there..
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/vt-4-mbt-in-pakistan.537585/page-17#post-10300373

 

[Ethan XXX]

It says right up there..
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/vt-4-mbt-in-pakistan.537585/page-18#post-10300430

it seems that the post you quoted meaned Oplot not VT4

 

[Signalian]

That's an irresponsible conclusion.

Engine might be one thing that attracts PA towards Oplot since all modern MBT's (AK series/T-80) of PA use Ukrainian engines and in future the possibility can be true for AK-II.

 

[Dazzler]

Engine might be one thing that attracts PA towards Oplot since all modern MBT's (AK series/T-80) of PA use Ukrainian engines and in future the possibility can be true for AK-II.

Add armor to the list. Ukrainian armor is truly excellent.

 

[Signalian]

Misconception and his link is from a fake so called insider from facebook.

Nothing is from PA. Oplot M is already rejected by RTA. Not only becos the delivery date is delayed. What they received is not up to expectation and a retrial carry out which VT-4 beats all competitors that included Leopard 2.

Not dissing your lovable VT-4, relax.

Chinese MBT engines are used in T-series of PA MBT's. Cant say what PA is thinking about a future engine (Chinese or Ukrainian) for its newer MBT's.

 

[Mumm-Ra]

it seems that the post you quoted meaned Oplot not VT4

Thanks for pointing it out. Post has been corrected.

i heard otherwise that T90 MS (with diesel engine) is what the PA wants........... but again i might be wrong

I think there was a whole thread on it here. But, in the end, it turned out to be a rumour only.