Pakistan army: We must 'avoid conflict' with India

[blain2]

India did not mobilize mass troops movement toward the border, but Pakistan did just because India said other options are open on the table. This is clear sign of paranoia or just a showmanship from the army.

Jeypore,

Its not showmanship. Its a matter of avoiding the eventuality of getting caught with your pants down. Pakistan cannot afford that. Thus the movement. Already there have been talks between the DGMOs of the two armies to let the intentions of each side be heard and known. There is no massive Pakistan Army build-up anywhere. We don't move our troops until there is something real happening on the other side. Its a move that we have learned fairly well over the past 60 years.

And I believe this statment is true, since the civilian gov't kept giving U turns on every sentence, it is not probable to believe that the army does have brain of it's own, and does whatever it deims necessary for there narcistic means.

Again the U-turns were taken because the Armed Forces were not taken into confidence and also the civilian government was not aware of the implications of doing certain things without getting the military involved. Both decisions related to the Pakistani armed forces in a serious manner. This was not a case of peace talks between India and Pakistan being shot down by the Pakistani Armed forces (as was the case of the Indian Army pushing back on the Indian Government with regards to the Siachen issue).

How ill-advised would you consider the GoI to be if they offered to send the head of RAW for a trip to Pakistan over accusations of support to the Baloch insurgents?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

That has become a big question mark? If you carefully listen to indian defense minister, he cleraly says that the evidence was provided, but the pakistanie establishment does not want to accept it. You do not have to go so far to understand his frustration, just by looking at where Kasab and family lives, Where in that small village there are military personal. First of all this is a very big hint, why does that small village all of a sudden needs military presence, and how come that father who says this is my son not allowed to speak freely to any media. One must feel that Pakistan establishment, either the civil gov't or military does not want anyone to know.

There is no reason to listen 'closely' when the Mukherjee has clearly stated that evidence will only be provided to Pakistan when India's own investigations are complete.

The GoI herself stated, in the face of the denial from Interpol that no evidence or information had been shared with it, that it did not want to share 'half baked information' from an incomplete investigation.

So is this 'half baked evidence' from an incomplete investigation the evidence you claim India has shared with Pakistan? Or is it that India has not shared any evidence as Mukherjee himself indicated?

You talk of the GoP retracting statements, but I also see utter confusion and contradictions galore emanating from the Indian camp.

 

[jeypore]

Jeypore,

Its not showmanship. Its a matter of avoiding the eventuality of getting caught with your pants down. Pakistan cannot afford that. Thus the movement. Already there have been talks between the DGMOs of the two armies to let the intentions of each side be heard and known. There is no massive Pakistan Army build-up anywhere. We don't move our troops until there is something real happening on the other side. Its a move that we have learned fairly well over the past 60 years.


Again the U-turns were taken because the Armed Forces were not taken into confidence and also the civilian government was not aware of the implications of doing certain things without getting the military involved. Both decisions related to the Pakistani armed forces in a serious manner. This was not a case of peace talks between India and Pakistan being shot down by the Pakistani Armed forces (as was the case of the Indian Army pushing back on the Indian Government with regards to the Siachen issue).

How ill-advised would you consider the GoI to be if they offered to send the head of RAW for a trip to Pakistan over accusations of support to the Baloch insurgents?

That is clearly my point, that When the Army head huncho says "we must avoid conflict", that is when everything cools down until then there where troop movements and all the rucuss that was created, even though PM of India was saying allong that there will no aggression from India.

Know you will see people of Pakistan will breath little easier and accept the status quo, but i do have theory about all this military excersize, it was clearly to grab attention from the real issue which was to start dismatling the terrorist camps, instead few arrest where made and constant barages of no evidence, no evidence.

Once again it was an excersize to grab attention away, and it was clearly done for the people of Pakistan, since the army already knew that international preassures where directed at the civilian gov't, and the civilian gov't is just a lame duck in a pond.

 

[jeypore]

There is no reason to listen 'closely' when the Mukherjee has clearly stated that evidence will only be provided to Pakistan when India's own investigations are complete.

The GoI herself stated, in the face of the denial from Interpol that no evidence or information had been shared with it, that it did not want to share 'half baked information' from an incomplete investigation.

So is this 'half baked evidence' from an incomplete investigation the evidence you claim India has shared with Pakistan? Or is it that India has not shared any evidence as Mukherjee himself indicated?

You talk of the GoP retracting statements, but I also see utter confusion and contradictions galore emanating from the Indian camp.

Not so, as you can see even from today's news that the chinese are stepping in for the appeasement of cooling down the tensions between the two countries. One must ask certain questions regarding this move by Chinese.

After India persuades China, what benefit does chinese have to send in delagates to Pakistan?

It is clearly not benefiting Chinese at all to stop the tensions, infact it would be there advantage, since Indian military and gov't would be focusing westward. The cry of no evidence is only done by Pakistan, Indians are tagging world community and proven to the world community, that this terrorist act orginated from Pakistan. If there were no evidence then why India has the potential to tag along the world community?

Since India is no US.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Not so, as you can see even from today's news that the chinese are stepping in for the appeasement of cooling down the tensions between the two countries. One must ask certain questions regarding this move by Chinese.

After India persuades China, what benefit does chinese have to send in delagates to Pakistan?

It is clearly not benefiting Chinese at all to stop the tensions, infact it would be there advantage, since Indian military and gov't would be focusing westward. The cry of no evidence is only done by Pakistan, Indians are tagging world community and proven to the world community, that this terrorist act orginated from Pakistan. If there were no evidence then why India has the potential to tag along the world community?

Since India is no US.

Who is 'tagging along'? Has Iran confirmed that India has provided Pakistan with evidence? Last I checked Indian sources in Indian papers were lamenting the fact that the Iranian FM did not throw a bone to India over its demands for pressure on Pakistan.

And what has China said about evidence? Last I checked here too Indian sources and newspapers were lamenting the fact that China did not offer an overt endorsement of India's position on 'evidence'.

The GoI has clearly stated that it will only share evidence when investigations are complete, and that it does not want to share 'half baked evidence', so what are you arguing about here?

No one wants a conflict in South Asia between India and Pakistan, that is why diplomats are attempting to cool down the rhetoric and get India to back off, not because of any damning evidence indicating Pakistani culpability.

 

[jeypore]

Who is 'tagging along'? Has Iran confirmed that India has provided Pakistan with evidence? Last I checked Indian sources in Indian papers were lamenting the fact that the Iranian FM did not throw a bone to India over its demands for pressure on Pakistan.

And what has China said about evidence? Last I checked here too Indian sources and newspapers were lamenting the fact that China did not offer an overt endorsement of India's position on 'evidence'.

The GoI has clearly stated that it will only share evidence when investigations are complete, and that it does not want to share 'half baked evidence', so what are you arguing about here?

No one wants a conflict in South Asia between India and Pakistan, that is why diplomats are attempting to cool down the rhetoric and get India to back off, not because of any damning evidence indicating Pakistani culpability.

Since, Am this argument has gone little longer, I will have to respond tommorrow with some news. Since i do have to close the liquor store as you know. Kooda afiz (I hope i spelled it right).

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Since, Am this argument has gone little longer, I will have to respond tommorrow with some news. Since i do have to close the liquor store as you know. Kooda afiz (I hope i spelled it right).

Don't worry about the spelling - it is the intent that counts.

Good night and have a safe trip home.

 

[ejaz007]

Why should India back down from "all options", If Pakistan will not cooperate, then India does have a legal right of "all options". Infact, the legal right was approved by the UN.

Yes clearly from your perspective, but truely it shows that the political party system or even the democratic system is not working, even though Zandari is saying that democratic system is in place in Pakistan and it is time to make changes. What Changes. Political system in Pakistan is just farce, And the big father (army) knows who is ept and inept, not the people of Pakistan.

India has already started backing down. UN has not approved the legal right for India only.

The democratic system is working efficiently. COAS has not made any public statement and has repeatedly met President and PM for discussion. This is how system is supposed to work. COAS reports to the President and this is what he is doing.

Its people like you who have been crying for decades that Pakistan's military is not answerable to the civilian leadership in western media to earn bread and butter for themselves. A stage has come that even people in western world have started questioning if there is no system in Pakistan than how has that country survived for that long time. Its time to stop repeating one line scripts.

 

[Awesome]

Pakistan army's step to mobilize troops were public exercise only for domestic consumption, It was not in response to India's mobilization as India did not amass troops at its borders unlike in year 2002. Mobilization of India's troops takes months.

We haven't amassed any signficant troops on the border either... 20,000 troops have been put into fortifying positions when the trouble with India hits the fan we'll do more. But we at least need to be ready since we were way behind because of the war in Afghanistan.

 

[Awesome]

India did not mobilize mass troops movement toward the border, but Pakistan did just because India said other options are open on the table. This is clear sign of paranoia or just a showmanship from the army.



And I believe this statment is true, since the civilian gov't kept giving U turns on every sentence, it is not probable to believe that the army does have brain of it's own, and does whatever it deims necessary for there narcistic means.

What do you mean just because India said that? Are you guys in the habit of making jokes about attacking nations? We have to take you guys seriously when you say we'll attack you.

All we said was, we'll attack you back . As usual that was enough to shut you up.

 

[anand]

To be honest I'm going to put my rep on the line...I wan't to see a War occur between the two countries. I strongly believe this is Pakistan's chance to deliver a crushing blow to India.

To destroy India is my dream, to destroy Israel is my dream, and to destroy the enemy nations is my dream...

Target the Indian government, target their police, their soldiers, target their infrastructure, their red light districts, their roads , highways, dams, ports, and more...

Butcher their soldiers, capture them, besiege their villages and towns, lay siege to Mumbai and their other cities. Unleash fire upon them, make their Hindu people run wild in fear in the dark wet streets... Humiliate them, jail them, strip them, tease them, and flog them (hostile individuals/armed combatants)


I have had enough of Hindu India, Pakistan the whole of Pakistan is prepared for whatever lies ahead...

This is what I would like to see. An Islamic India....something to think about.

I'm probably going to get banned for this post, so bye...I have had enough...

Unfortunately for every action there will be an equal and opposite reaction. Thats why every sane person (including me) wants to avoid war.

 

[donrahul]

What do you mean just because India said that? Are you guys in the habit of making jokes about attacking nations? We have to take you guys seriously when you say we'll attack you.

All we said was, we'll attack you back . As usual that was enough to shut you up.

Unfortunately we are a nation which respects life, either Indian or Pakistani and Personally I am not the person to say "Bring it on" coz i dont want the horrible loss of life and limb, however nationalistic be the cause. and not the person to say, "Lets test our thermo-nucler weapons on so and so Cities",

 

[IceCold]

Unfortunately we are a nation which respects life, either Indian or Pakistani and Personally I am not the person to say "Bring it on" coz i dont want the horrible loss of life and limb, however nationalistic be the cause. and not the person to say, "Lets test our thermo-nucler weapons on so and so Cities",

Wow, i thought Indians was saying all along that they have the no first use policy asking Pakistan to do the same and we did that as well. By the way i dont think we would need to test more then just one thermo nuclear weapon against each other, it will be enough to send us both back to stone age specially in terms of economics. Hope you catch the drill here.

 

[niaz]

Gen Kiyani is wise and prudent. Peace loving nations are always ‘Reluctant Warriors”. Unlike the bellicose statements by religious parties (JI has been claiming to put our flag on Red Fort for a very long time), wisdom demands that we try to avoid an armed conflict until “Crossing of the Rubicon”. However, when the war comes, we must hit hard and with all our might.

 

[donrahul]

Gen Kiyani is wise and prudent. Peace loving nations are always ‘Reluctant Warriors”. Unlike the bellicose statements by religious parties (JI has been claiming to put our flag on Red Fort for a very long time), wisdom demands that we try to avoid an armed conflict until “Crossing of the Rubicon”. However, when the war comes, we must hit hard and with all our might.

Peace loving nations is a debatable term for a country which dares to put up Zaid Hamid on Television on a regular basis.

Oh yeah! I know your responses."What about Modi" Modi never promised to put the tricolor on Islamabad or threatened to disturb the sovereignty of Pakistan..