Pakistan Army troopers busy in exercise at Khudai Rang - 30-01-2010

[air marshal]

 

[air marshal]

 

[nightrider_saulat]

these T-80UDs are portraying themselves as "rhinos of desert"

 

[XYON]

I am always amazed that in this day and age of modern warfare and thermal imaging in almost all modern tanks, what is the logic behind putting GHAANSS PHOONSS on these tanks? free-for-all camo? Its like sometimes that Army jeeps put mud camo patterns on the outside to fool the common vision? What if it is raining?

 

[Super Falcon]

the sene will be ausm when an irresistable force meets with an imoveable object
T90 VS T 80

 

[air marshal]

 

[air marshal]

 

[FreekiN]

I had to.

 

[blain2]

I am always amazed that in this day and age of modern warfare and thermal imaging in almost all modern tanks, what is the logic behind putting GHAANSS PHOONSS on these tanks? free-for-all camo? Its like sometimes that Army jeeps put mud camo patterns on the outside to fool the common vision? What if it is raining?

Ghaans phoons, as nonsensical it may seem, helps when tanks are deployed in a concealed static position, or not running their engines which generate heat signature and at night times when their silhouettes can merge with the terrain with the help of these additional appendages. Secondly, against anti tank hunter-killer teams that may not be equipped with Infrared equipment, this type of concealment has its benefits.

On the issue of mud, the essential use was to hide formation insignias from naked eye. In case someone has people on the ground observing, it helps with hiding information such as which formations may be in the area etc. If the other side knows about it, they can update the orbat they have on you and take steps to counter it.

These are all old school tricks of the trade, but still relevant to some extent. If it rains, then they take the "Thok/keechar/dirt" and lap it on again....nobody said it was perfect, however it saves the units from having to spend money on painting over and repainting.

A good read is "Moving Mountains". Its essentially an overview of the challenges with logistics that the US Army faced during gulf war. Lt Gen Pagonis (USA), was responsible for the movement of over 10,000 vehicles from the US and theaters elsewhere to the KSA prior to moving into Kuwait and Iraq. The entire inventory of 10,000 vehicles had to be repainted in a different camouflage suited to deployment in desert. Our way of doing the same, hide the formation signs and we are good to go.

 

[XYON]

Ghaans phoons, as nonsensical it may seem, helps when tanks are deployed in a concealed static position, or not running their engines which generate heat signature and at night times when their silhouettes can merge with the terrain with the help of these additional appendages. Secondly, against anti tank hunter-killer teams that may not be equipped with Infrared equipment, this type of concealment has its benefits.

On the issue of mud, the essential use was to hide formation insignias from naked eye. In case someone has people on the ground observing, it helps with hiding information such as which formations may be in the area etc. If the other side knows about it, they can update the orbat they have on you and take steps to counter it.

These are all old school tricks of the trade, but still relevant to some extent. If it rains, then they take the "Thok/keechar/dirt" and lap it on again....nobody said it was perfect, however it saves the units from having to spent money on painting over and repainting.

A good read is "Moving Mountains". Its essentially an overview of the challenges with logistics that the US Army faced during gulf war. Lt Gen Pagonis (USA), was responsible for the movement of over 10,000 vehicles from the US and theaters elsewhere to the KSA prior to moving into Kuwait and Iraq. The entire inventory of 10,000 vehicles had to be repainted in a different camouflage suited to deployment in desert. Our way of doing the same, hide the formation signs and we are good to go.

Jaani, last time I looked at the T-80UD camouflaged with GHAANS PHOONS through the Sophie TI, it stood out like a sore thumb both at the day time and particularly at the night time. GHAANS PHOONS may temporarily fool the naked eye during the day time and primarily in the deserts of KPT or fields of Khaarian but it cannot fool the TI sensors which are used in today's MBT for targeting. Hence, it may be a 'low-cost solution' but its overall effectiveness on MBT's remains nil in modern day warfare. Same goes for the muddy jeeps!! The soldiers can simply put a cloth cover instead of the LAIPAA POTTEE on such unit ID tags.

HIT recently tried to dabble into 'heat resistant' coatings for its tanks and APC's. This coating minimizes the heat signature thereby making it difficult to detect through a TI. It worked well with the coated field trials on a T-59 and an APCM113 but the cost per vehicle was too high which essentially ended up in a no go!

So while I agree to your notion of SASTAA solution but really for how long? As tech becomes dominant in the battle-field, such SASTAY solutions will become more of a thing to be laughed at then to be aware of or feared by the enemy!

P.S - Regarding your book read suggestion, all I can is that we fortunately do not have to move mountains yet owing to our limited capacity as an armed force compared to the US might!

 

[blain2]

Jaani, last time I looked at the T-80UD camouflaged with GHAANS PHOONS through the Sophie TI, it stood out like a sore thumb both at the day time and particularly at the night time. GHAANS PHOONS may temporarily fool the naked eye during the day time and primarily in the deserts of KPT or fields of Khaarian but it cannot fool the TI sensors which are used in today's MBT for targeting. Hence, it may be a 'low-cost solution' but its overall effectiveness on MBT's remains nil in modern day warfare. Same goes for the muddy jeeps!! The soldiers can simply put a cloth cover instead of the LAIPAA POTTEE on such unit ID tags.

I agree with you, however if you read through my exceptions, you will find that I have said that IR/T image intensifiers can definitely see through this stuff, however TIs are not available to everyone on the other side specially small infantry teams equipped with ATGMs. So this concealment does have limited efficacy. Over time it will become a completely obsolete practice.

HIT recently tried to dabble into 'heat resistant' coatings for its tanks and APC's. This coating minimizes the heat signature thereby making it difficult to detect through a TI. It worked well with the coated field trials on a T-59 and an APCM113 but the cost per vehicle was too high which essentially ended up in a no go!

So while I agree to your notion of SASTAA solution but really for how long? As tech becomes dominant in the battle-field, such SASTAY solutions will become more of a thing to be laughed at then to be aware of or feared by the enemy!

Although I cannot comment on the heat resistant coating, ours is a chronic case of being financially strapped. Knowing the reality, the dirt will continue to be applied for some time.

P.S - Regarding your book read suggestion, all I can is that we fortunately do not have to move mountains yet owing to our limited capacity as an armed force compared to the US might!

It should be a must read for all of our ASC officers and also those in the fighting arms. Its been an eye opener for me personally just thinking about the sheer volume and challenges. Although I do not see us having to deal with this type of magnitude, however the thought process and approaches to the problems faced would be a welcome addition to anyone's knowledge, including our officers.

 

[Super Falcon]

replace those G 3s first pak army