Pakistan Army spokesman will make a statement shortly on UN helicopter crash and Martyrs

[Super Falcon]

Army is creating unnecessary news should be doing their job

 

[Dil Pakistan]

Anyone can tell me another country where the army chief is so heavily involved in politics and that country is socially and economically stable and successful? I cant think of any. PA has a role to play in security. That is where their role stops. The elected civilians could tell the to STFU and the only thing in their power to say should be "yes sir". They are there to ADVISE on security matters and keep the country safe. That is it. The ISI should be taken out of the chain of command of the COAS and brought solely under the exuctive branch control. The COAS should be rotated regularly as the constitution states, rather than extended year after year. They should make a law that limits extention to 1 time for a 3 year cycle at the discretion of PM but requiring approval from 2/3 parliment, then adios. This will prevent whichever party is currently in Army control, from unilaterally extending a dictator.

Its all well and good to say good things about army, but their role must be limited to security only.

US is that country ---- Pentagon is heavily involved in politics inside US and outside in the world.

 

[Tank131]

US is that country ---- Pentagon is heavily involved in politics inside US and outside in the world.

And? You expect powerful countries to not try and interfere? They cannot easily interfere when there is political involvement of the people and leaders are actually answerable to the voters. But if they only need to convince COAS to suport their cause the whole system collapsea as it did around IK.

When political maturity will happen, corruption is reined, the military will go back to the barracks, the foriegn interference is the biggest problem i see in Pakistan.

What amazing circular logic. People gain maturity when corruption ends and corruption cant end because the institutions which benefits the most from corruption is tasked by you as safe guarding the national interest until the corruption ends. Myopia in its true definition.

 

[khail007]

I could not understand the logic of Pakistanis:

Armed Forces interfere - Only when the politicos failed and fight on the streets like dogs OR like a pack of dogs pitched against a bear - In the present situation - Pakistanis condemn Armed Forces.

Armed Forces do not interfere - Keep themselves away from the politics - Pakistanis started to feel immense pain and started howling and whining.

What such confused Pakistanis wish from the Armed Forces of Pakistan. Armed Forces not to be blamed for every failure and inabilities of 'Politicos'.

Those who are utterly confused, just go thru the history from 1947 to 1958 and see how things were handled by politicos till the Armed Forces filled the vacuum of the barren system which to date is unable to deliver.

 

[Dil Pakistan]

And? You expect powerful countries to not try and interfere? They cannot easily interfere when there is political involvement of the people and leaders are actually answerable to the voters. But if they only need to convince COAS to suport their cause the whole system collapsea as it did around IK.


What amazing circular logic. People gain maturity when corruption ends and corruption cant end because the institutions which benefits the most from corruption is tasked by you as safe guarding the national interest until the corruption ends. Myopia in its true definition.

I only answered your question.

 

[Tank131]

I could not understand the logic of Pakistanis:

Armed Forces interfere - Only when the politicos failed and fight on the streets like dogs OR like a pack of dogs pitched against a bear - In the present situation - Pakistanis condemn Armed Forces.
View attachment 830968


Armed Forces do not interfere - Keep themselves away from the politics - Pakistanis started to feel immense pain and started howling and whining.

What such confused Pakistanis wish from the Armed Forces of Pakistan. Armed Forces not to be blamed for every failure and inabilities of 'Politicos'.

Those who are utterly confused, just go thru the history from 1947 to 1958 and see how things were handled by politicos till the Armed Forces filled the vacuum of the barren system which to date is unable to deliver.

Go look into history beyond Pakistan and you will see similar failings in every country. The difference is that in economically successful and politically stable countries, those failures of the political elite were allowed to be worked out at the ballot box by the people. That held leaders accountable for the development of the country and the progress of the society (education, health, econ, ect). The fact that some call for intervention when they see political corruption shows 2 things, because of repeated intervention, the politics of the nation has not progressed to where it should be (people dont of the political insight to see how these situations can be handled politically - ie impeachment, recall, NCV, ect). This is especially ironic in Pakistan, where everyone has a political opinion and there is a strong demonstration/protest culture and history. The second thing it shows is that the military has trained the nation to be happy and satisfied with stability (we are in charge and no one should try to challenge this) but not expect progress. The military had done nothing to develop infrastructure to the point it needs to be (no significant power projects or factories, development of roads or IT). Ironically despite the corruption, most social works and infrastructure development has occured in corrupt civilian rule (both Gunja and IK pushed for roads, power projects and the like which is why you arent having 18h load shedding in Karachi anymore). Instead the military has used its rule to cement its own mechanisms of funding, self sufficient from govt funding (housing projects and corporations ect meant to fund military leadership). That is not to say military rule has been as bad as other nations as Pakistans military is essentially a benevolent dictatorship (it doesnt oppress its people) but it is as much involved in the corruption culture as civillians, especially as most of the civilian governments were brought by the military or were facilitated by the military causing collapse of the previous regime (including PTI in both senses-selected and then collapsed).

The reality is that military education and training is not suitable for governance. They are suitable for threat assessment and strategic studies. They should leave politics to civilians and the voters will work out the corruption issues over a few cycles of elections (that is what happened in SKorea, Turkey, even USA when you look to the start of the country. The difference is the military was pushed out of the role of ruler in successful countries. In unsuccessful countries, they continue to dominate.

 

[khail007]

Go look into history beyond Pakistan and you will see similar failings in every country. The difference is that in economically successful and politically stable countries, those failures of the political elite were allowed to be worked out at the ballot box by the people. That held leaders accountable for the development of the country and the progress of the society (education, health, econ, ect). The fact that some call for intervention when they see political corruption shows 2 things, because of repeated intervention, the politics of the nation has not progressed to where it should be (people dont of the political insight to see how these situations can be handled politically - ie impeachment, recall, NCV, ect). This is especially ironic in Pakistan, where everyone has a political opinion and there is a strong demonstration/protest culture and history. The second thing it shows is that the military has trained the nation to be happy and satisfied with stability (we are in charge and no one should try to challenge this) but not expect progress. The military had done nothing to develop infrastructure to the point it needs to be (no significant power projects or factories, development of roads or IT). Ironically despite the corruption, most social works and infrastructure development has occured in corrupt civilian rule (both Gunja and IK pushed for roads, power projects and the like which is why you arent having 18h load shedding in Karachi anymore). Instead the military has used its rule to cement its own mechanisms of funding, self sufficient from govt funding (housing projects and corporations ect meant to fund military leadership). That is not to say military rule has been as bad as other nations as Pakistans military is essentially a benevolent dictatorship (it doesnt oppress its people) but it is as much involved in the corruption culture as civillians, especially as most of the civilian governments were brought by the military or were facilitated by the military causing collapse of the previous regime (including PTI in both senses-selected and then collapsed).

The reality is that military education and training is not suitable for governance. They are suitable for threat assessment and strategic studies. They should leave politics to civilians and the voters will work out the corruption issues over a few cycles of elections (that is what happened in SKorea, Turkey, even USA when you look to the start of the country. The difference is the military was pushed out of the role of ruler in successful countries. In unsuccessful countries, they continue to dominate.

You mean the thieves, vultures looters kill the country and we have to wait for such 'politicos' to get to senses.?
Any example of such 'pig trading' of members of assemblies?
These corrupts preparing their generations for rule and you advising here to get our generations to be slave for them - No mate you could buy it I am not.
These corrupts being convicted enjoying the life based on corrupt system - while we use to kill people on the roads on allegations and who even not convicted - you buy it I am not.
One country two system will not work.
Sorry dude this text book lecture will never help to improve the system.
Those societies/nations where the concept of 'Jazaa or Saza' ignored by the system or institute are dead system or nations.

 

[Tank131]

You mean the thieves, vultures looters kill the country and we have to wait for such 'politicos' to get to senses.?
Any example of such 'pig trading' of members of assemblies?
These corrupts preparing their generations for rule and you advising here to get our generations to be slave for them - No mate you could buy it I am not.
These corrupts being convicted enjoying the life based on corrupt system - while we use to kill people on the roads on allegations and who even not convicted - you buy it I am not.
One country two system will not work.
Sorry dude this text book lecture will never help to improve the system.
Those societies/nations where the concept of 'Jazaa or Saza' ignored by the system or institute are dead system or nations.

There is no issue with the people holding them to account immediately (who is telling you to keep these people) , but you want Pakistan to develop, that has to be done through political process that is civilian driven. Its on you the voter to keep scumbags line gunja or zardari out. Keep people like IK in. But you think the institution which has ruled Pakistan for 50 of its 73 years and hasnt developed it in that time is suddenly going to change, you can buy it, im not. You think the institutions which helped push IK into this crisis because he didnt capitulate to US demands is an honest broker for the country? You can buy it, im not. You think a bunch kf soldiers whose education is a bachelor's in military and strategic studies are better equipped to lead a country than men and women with masters and doctorates in education, finance, business administration, medicine, political science and law? You can buy it, but i dont. You think that Pakistan is the most unique country in the world where it will be the only nation that will advance under the rule of its military where no other nation has done so? You can buy that, i dont.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
-Albert Einstein

50 years of non-development polices of the military and you think they would do a better job than civilians. The beauty of the whole house of cards that has been built is that you think the army isn't involved with each of these corrupt politicians.

Nawaz: brought by Zia and was re-elected last time after PPP picked fight with army over memo-gate.

PPP: ZA Bhuttto was brought by Yahya Khan. Then BB was allowed back by Mushy.

IK selected when PML-N again fell out of favor with military.

MQM created by army

Pml-q created by army out of N league dissidents.

Everyone currently trying to court army favor as it clearly is courting US Favor.

But you cant see it?

 

[khail007]

There is no issue with the people holding them to account immediately (who is telling you to keep these people) , but you want Pakistan to develop, that has to be done through political process that is civilian driven. Its on you the voter to keep scumbags line gunja or zardari out. Keep people like IK in. But you think the institution which has ruled Pakistan for 50 of its 73 years and hasnt developed it in that time is suddenly going to change, you can buy it, im not.

Bet me, these politicos could not bring a change to Pakistan. They will keep you next generations as slaves. So you buy it.

You think the institutions which helped push IK into this crisis because he didnt capitulate to US demands is an honest broker for the country? You can buy it, im not.

No ... ! those institutions are honest which enables the murder of heroes welcome for strengthening the vote count in NCV ... very nice.

You think a bunch kf soldiers whose education is a bachelor's in military and strategic studies are better equipped to lead a country than men and women with masters and doctorates in education, finance, business administration, medicine, political science and law? You can buy it, but i dont. You think that Pakistan is the most unique country in the world where it will be the only nation that will advance under the rule of its military where no other nation has done so? You can buy that, i dont.

Yes less educated far better than a self-claimed 'intellectual' who does not know how the 'degree' could help him.
Take a look at your judges, saleable.
Take a look at your doctor's, money-making machine - does not even care for 'sterilization' of the surgical instruments. Hepatitis 'B'/'C' all from their ignorance.
Take a look at your engineers. most are the admin clerks. In India and Bangladesh, even technicians (Mistri) are introducing better products than so-called Pakistani engineers.
See the Suzuki/Honda at staggering prices they were and are looting Pakistani people with 'teen dabas'.
Take a look at your educationist, and consider what they are producing in educational institutes.
Even in Pakistan, skilled labor (mistri) is at a better level than so-called engineers.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
-Albert Einstein

It implies to the nation, not an institute. Sell your votes for 'Qeemay Wala Nan/Biryani Plate' and you will be in the same hole.

50 years of non-development polices of the military and you think they would do a better job than civilians. The beauty of the whole house of cards that has been built is that you think the army isn't involved with each of these corrupt politicians.

Just google and compare when was the last era of development in Pakistan indeed it was not from the era of 'rooti/kapra/makan' or 'peeli taxi/saaf pani/laptop scheme/sasti rooti'

Nawaz: brought by Zia and was re-elected last time after PPP picked fight with army over memo-gate.

PPP: ZA Bhuttto was brought by Yahya Khan. Then BB was allowed back by Mushy.

IK selected when PML-N again fell out of favor with military.

MQM created by army

Pml-q created by army out of N league dissidents.

Your knowledge of Masters/Slaves lacks.

Everyone currently trying to court army favor as it clearly is courting US Favor.

But you cant see it?

Who are these 'everyone', take the names so I could see them.
Nowadays, it is becoming difficult to distinguish the truth from the propaganda but one has to improve his understanding of the good and the bad.