fitpOsitive
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Paisa boht ....dua chahiay bhai ki....10 Million USD man that's a bit expensive for us imo
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Paisa boht ....dua chahiay bhai ki....10 Million USD man that's a bit expensive for us imo
I used the term ''flying coffin '' intentionally for MI 17. any machine having poor safety record can be called ''flying coffin". this term is not specific to mig 21.i cant expect such kind of behavior from a think tank consultant can sayHow many will you exactly call "large numbers"
What rummer/Rumor? where you heard that? Is it just you who is trying to spread this rumor or you heard it from someone else?
It will be great if we can keep calm and do not indulge ourselves into speculating,, FOR ONCE!! PLEASE?
Those were Mig21
Everything thing that Russians make are not flying coffins, educate yourself.
Mi17 is among the worlds most trusted and common transport chopper. PA MUST have invested in those, specially with the new Chinese line in operation. However, i do not think that these AW139 are meant for military transport to begin with so Mi17s and there value to PAA is a non-issue here.
These AW139 are most likely for SAR and VIP transport. I hope we can give a couple of these to NDMA so they stop looking toward army for every other land slide. Some may even go to CPEC project and for Gwadar security patrol. These are all speculation for now but one thing i am confident about is that these wont end us as a transport helicopter with Pakistan army aviation for assault troops.
AND
all said, i do feel that there were many other better options available compared to this quite expensive one. I hope Panama is not getting richer because of this deal. Not that i have got anything against the people of Panama.
@HRK @Slav Defence @Irfan Baloch @Oscar @Icarus @Horus @TaimiKhan
You people may want to put end to a few speculations here.
I used term ''flying coffin '' intentionally for MI 17 . any machine having poor safety record can be called ''flying coffin''. this term is not specific to mig 21 .I cant expect such kind of behavior from think tank consultant.How many will you exactly call "large numbers"
What rummer/Rumor? where you heard that? Is it just you who is trying to spread this rumor or you heard it from someone else?
It will be great if we can keep calm and do not indulge ourselves into speculating,, FOR ONCE!! PLEASE?
Those were Mig21
Everything thing that Russians make are not flying coffins, educate yourself.
Mi17 is among the worlds most trusted and common transport chopper. PA MUST have invested in those, specially with the new Chinese line in operation. However, i do not think that these AW139 are meant for military transport to begin with so Mi17s and there value to PAA is a non-issue here.
These AW139 are most likely for SAR and VIP transport. I hope we can give a couple of these to NDMA so they stop looking toward army for every other land slide. Some may even go to CPEC project and for Gwadar security patrol. These are all speculation for now but one thing i am confident about is that these wont end us as a transport helicopter with Pakistan army aviation for assault troops.
AND
all said, i do feel that there were many other better options available compared to this quite expensive one. I hope Panama is not getting richer because of this deal. Not that i have got anything against the people of Panama.
@HRK @Slav Defence @Irfan Baloch @Oscar @Icarus @Horus @TaimiKhan
You people may want to put end to a few speculations here.
At least 1-3 squadrons....roughly 24-70 airplanes. But if you are referring to ToT, only 3 Agosta-90 Bs were purchased on ToT basis. So even for a single squadron, we should purchase items on ToT basis wherever possible. As opposed to subs, helis are multipurpose machines and useable for both military and civilian purposes and we have a history of natural calamities....floods, Earth quakes, forest fires etc ....Ideally each city should have 1-2 helis at its disposal to provide immediate relief.....then border security....Helis are pretty useful machines.How many will you exactly call "large numbers"
What rummer/Rumor? where you heard that? Is it just you who is trying to spread this rumor or you heard it from someone else?
It will be great if we can keep calm and do not indulge ourselves into speculating,, FOR ONCE!! PLEASE?
So what kind of behavior will you expect from a TT Consultant dear? OR from anyone for that matter when you go labeling war machines just based on personal liking or disliking? It was nothing personal, sorry if you felt that way and neither it was offensive. I just corrected you that the Mig21 were called flying coffins and NOT Mi17 and neither are there any FACT and Numbers that would support that label
I used the term ''flying coffin '' intentionally for MI 17. any machine having poor safety record can be called ''flying coffin". this term is not specific to mig 21.i cant expect such kind of behavior from a think tank consultant can say
I used term ''flying coffin '' intentionally for MI 17 . any machine having poor safety record can be called ''flying coffin''. this term is not specific to mig 21 .I cant expect such kind of behavior from think tank consultant.
Sir there are OVER 12000 Mi17 built to date. If it was a helicopter with what you can term as "poor flight safety record" there wont be so many of them flying around. Now if you have any figures comparing Mi17 flight safety record against some other helicopter in same class, i myself and hopefully most of our fellow members here will be happy to learn from that.Mi17 is among the worlds most trusted and common transport chopper.
Source: https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan...nd-aw139-choppers.432061/page-3#ixzz49fiYf8x2
Well i just asked about the rumor mill, is it you or are there any other statements floating around about this number of helicopters?The requirement is based on CPEC and EEZ development. In a few days we would get the official conformation.
mig 21 is called ''flying coffin '' only in India due to its poor safety record . PAF and PLAAF also uses F 7 ( Chinese version of mig 21 ) without any such problem .bcoz spares and parts of F7 are available . MI 17 is a flying coffin ( in case of PAA ) due to lack of spares .So what kind of behavior will you expect from a TT Consultant dear? OR from anyone for that matter when you go labeling war machines just based on personal liking or disliking? It was nothing personal, sorry if you felt that way and neither it was offensive. I just corrected you that the Mig21 were called flying coffins and NOT Mi17 and neither are there any FACT and Numbers that would support that label
As i mentioned in the original post;
Sir there are OVER 12000 Mi17 built to date. If it was a helicopter with what you can term as "poor flight safety record" there wont be so many of them flying around. Now if you have any figures comparing Mi17 flight safety record against some other helicopter in same class, i myself and hopefully most of our fellow members here will be happy to learn from that.
I hope you understand!
Well i just asked about the rumor mill, is it you or are there any other statements floating around about this number of helicopters?
LEONARDO-FINMECCANICA: PAKISTAN SELECTS THE AW139 FOR SAR ROLEWell i just asked about the rumor mill, is it you or are there any other statements floating around about this number of helicopters?
Well that was wayyyyy too rough don't you think,, number estimates from 24 to three times more 70? This is a HUGE range sir. Either 24 or THREE time that numberAt least 1-3 squadrons....roughly 24-70 airplanes. But if you are referring to ToT, only 3 Agosta-90 Bs were purchased on ToT basis. So even for a single squadron, we should purchase items on ToT basis wherever possible. As opposed to subs, helis are multipurpose machines and useable for both military and civilian purposes and we have a history of natural calamities....floods, Earth quakes, forest fires etc ....Ideally each city should have 1-2 helis at its disposal to provide immediate relief.....then border security....Helis are pretty useful machines.
Still there is NOTHING about the number being 40!! Not even an indication that it can be as high as that.LEONARDO-FINMECCANICA: PAKISTAN SELECTS THE AW139 FOR SAR ROLE
- AgustaWestland AW139 intermediate twin engine helicopters. The signing was held in Islamabad in presence of the H.E. Italian Ambassador Stefano Pontecorvo. The contract is part of a fleet renewal programme spread over several batches including a logistic support and training package. The AW139s, deliveries of which are expected in 2017, will be used to perform search and rescue across the nation.
This contract marks a significant achievement for Leonardo-Finmeccanica in Pakistan, further expanding the already successful presence of the AW139 helicopter in-country. A total of 11 AW139s are already in service in Pakistan, with 5 aircraft operated for Government relief and transportation duties.
Rome 24/05/2016 16:49
http://www.leonardocompany.com/-/aw139-pakistan
Aren't these choppers costly ?
executive/private and government
Yeah that is why i mentioned Mig21 and not F7.mig 21 is called ''flying coffin '' only in India due to its poor safety record . PAF and PLAAF also uses F 7 ( Chinese version of mig 21 ) without any such problem .bcoz spares and parts of F7 are available . MI 17 is a flying coffin ( in case of PAA ) due to lack of spares .
PAA is facing problems in engines and spare . I think 5 or 6 months ago , PAK and Russia had signed a contract for MI 17 overhaul and engine spares facility . I don't know whether it is operational or not.Yeah that is why i mentioned Mig21 and not F7.
Also what makes you say that there is any problem related to spares for Mi17 with PAA? Ours were even upgraded a few years back. Also it is not like we are not able to get parts from Russia. We are getting JF17 engines and other things as well so parts wont be an issue either. ALSO the Chinese are running there own manufacturing line for the Mi17 so that pretty much address any part problem.