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Pakistan Army expels 90 US military trainers

I think this is wonderful! We shouldn't need to train Pakistan FATA tribesman! What a waste of money. We can put the savings into more drone systems, which are more effective and dependable than FATA tribesman.
drones are good for talibs, everytime they land in the wrong place or they kill an innocent, suddenly extremist have new recruits.

keep on shooting yourself in the foot!
 
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I think this is wonderful! We shouldn't need to train Pakistan FATA tribesman!

well look at the Afghan national ragtag Panjshiri army you are training in Afghanistan....are they able to assume charge of full security when you remove your boots? A decade later, your tax dollars have reached some turncoats even.

I think US is still only learning COIN --so how much use could they be along Afghan border which is a guerilla fighters paradise. You want us to be able to fight terrorists who are ALLOWED to cross into Pakistan from Afghan side. Thats nice.


What a waste of money. We can put the savings into more drone systems, which are more effective and dependable than FATA tribesman.

your money, your problem. You have yes-men in Islamabad, however dont be too confident about drones in the air when popular sentiment on the ground is against foreign presence in Afghanistan.

you'll need a LOT of drones i suppose in order to win those hearts and minds :unsure:


you say you want Pakistan to ''do more'' and you say you want a terrorist free Pakistan and a friendly Pakistan.....and you say drones are MORE effective...and yet you couldnt even heed a single request to hand over the tech. so we could do a better job ''selling'' this war to a wary public.

so many inconsistencies and double-standards; but oh well.



as i always say -- there are TWO sides to a border. Cooperation and trust are a two-way thing.
 
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Why "expel" only 2/3rds?? Others to be expelled when they have completed their training? Makes no sense.

Sound more like a negotiated return instead of a expel which would have been unilateral.

There is no expelling. Their role and task is done thus they are being sent back. They were in Pakistan at the pleasure of the GoP. With gratitude for their assistance, they are being sent back. Those that are needed are staying. What is the controversy about?

I do want to add that our forces are not at the level of those that require a lot of hand holding. We have fought 4 wars and conducted numerous military operations. Experience wise we have more to offer others than many of the so called "first world" militaries.

In most interactions, those interfacing with us come away acknowledging (by the way most are impressed) that we have a pretty robust training system and those who think that PA/FC require the kind of hand-holding and supervision being provided by US/NATO to Afghan and Iraqi militaries would be sorely disappointed. Yes there are gaps, every military has them, however ours are more so in terms of equipment/technology. We can use help here and the remaining American cadres can help out as required.
 
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safe evacuation??? may be Americans are about to do another mischief? sounds stupid but looking at present scenario anything is possible in Pakistan. anything means anything!
 
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Hopefully the Taliban will just retaliate killing more innocent people which leads to more informants bent on revenge against the Taliban.
 
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I think this is wonderful! We shouldn't need to train Pakistan FATA tribesman! What a waste of money. We can put the savings into more drone systems, which are more effective and dependable than FATA tribesman.

Still big in mouth after 10 years beating in Afghanistan and not even have controll over 25 % of AFghansitan ? Look at ur histroy and get the f*** out of here. USA is dieing slowly and when dead no will even cry for u m********
 
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The title wording is inappropriate and as usual has attracted the Trolls from our eastern neighbourhood. Any loaded titiles and retaliatory posts pretty much kill off a serious discussion and just feed the bored for life trolls.

Coming to the topic,
The presence of the US troops was based on mutual benefit and has helped in turning the FC since the time of Gen Tariq Khan into a capable fighting force which is a far cry from the time of early time of the insurgency in FATA areas in response to American invasion of Afghanistan. The American help has been a welcome gift in that regard shouldn’t be played down due to the controversial drone strikes.

There is only enough any other country can do for us. So when their job was done they can go now. Media sensationalism and political bickering from both sides aside, both countries have helped each other tremendously since the start of war on terror, some success stories are public knowledge and some will remain a secret for good reasons. As the enemy is also changing tactics and evolving its strategies so are both the armies of Pakistan and United States, CBQ, COIN and counter insurgency in the urban warfare are not restricted to SSG anymore (as was noted in DAWN’s program W.A.S) now regular army units also have elements up to platoon size that train and specialise in urban warfare and CQB.

And as noted in the earlier post, Pakistan army is not what it was in 2001 re counter insurgency. It has gone a long way from training and fighting a conventional enemy to learning and training an elusive enemy that can melt into population and the difference between a hostile and a civilian is only when that person is not holding a gun in settled areas (in tribal areas its when that person is not pointing the gun at you ,because weapon forms the part of a tribesman dress code) so the reaction time and differentiating between a terrorist and civilian is hard, what further exacerbates the issue is that there is a majority of population which under coercion or due to common faith and ideology is willing to harbour, support and hide the terrorists.

US can continue to provide intelligence and support through their surveillance equipments (drones, satellites etc) and specially help or remove hurdles in acquiring bigger transport helicopters to launch a successful and rapid operation against the insurgents because all we have got so far is some cold war era reconditioned and rebuilt Russian Mi-8s. Chinooks were never ever offered even on lease, I cant understand the reluctance, if its due to Indian objection that it will give Pakistan army a big boost to its airborne mobility then US policy & decision makers need to make up their mind if resolving the Al Qaeda problem & succeeding in WOT in Afghanistan with the help of Pakistan is more important or hesitating and giving in to the Indian objections which has never kept its intentions towards Pakistan a secret with its cold start and surgical strikes threats. So far Pakistan has been repeatedly “advised” to stop its Indian obsession and move more of its troops from eastern borders but the same demand is not made to India to stop its “Pakistan obsession” when more than 80% of its forces and all air force bases are along the border with Pakistan. But there is still hope because America already braved the Indian objections and supplied block 52 F-16s that helped in precise ground strikes on Taliban then don’t see why the reluctance with Chinooks ? are they more sensitive and complicated than the F-16s?

One really wonders how western media and policy makers keep on advocating Pakistan to launching and expanding the war in northern Waziristan, knowing too well the mobility and rapid deployment constraints due to limited rotary transport fleet of Pakistan army when in Afghanistan any minor to major operation or retaliation (to Taliban assault) contains the essential element of attack copters and/ or transport helis like Chinooks because the terrain and topography of the region is pretty much similar and doesn’t allow the type of assault we saw in first and second gulf war where Allied mobile units were pictured cruising in Iraqi deserts blowing up sand and dust in full frontal formations.

Coming back to topic once again, after the training and now field experience of 10 years what Pakistan army can really use is more intelligence through its reconnaissance and also ensuring that the attackers don’t have a free pass from the Afghan side to come and attack Pakistani check posts and run back into Afghanistan unchallenged.
 
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Thread title is misleading.

The US trainers are part of a transitional wind up as stated by Adm Mullen weeks ago. Their traveling circus is packing its bags as there's other commitments around the world. If i was to wager a guess, they're probably off to Libya. Anyway, Mullen said he would remove a large amount of trainers after the Abbottabad raid.

So it's in fact the US pulling them as opposed to Pakistan pushing them out. Nice spin though, ISPR wouldn't miss a chance to cajole popular sentiment especially after recent caught-with-our-pants-down embarrassing events in Abbottabad.
 
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I think this is wonderful! We shouldn't need to train Pakistan FATA tribesman! What a waste of money. We can put the savings into more drone systems, which are more effective and dependable than FATA tribesman.

yes that's the right way to Destory one nation's soveranity and killed innocent peoples......keep doing this......As Might is Right.
 
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"Face saving? After the Raymond Davis episode and the fact that PA has been conducting COIN ops on its own for the past 4+ years, they are no longer needed in all of the areas initially envisaged. I can go into specific cases where the American presence was totally redundant but was being accommodated for reasons other than military."

What were those reasons? Did Zardari get a new mansion or did Kiyani get a nationality?
Please explain...
 
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