Pakistan Army Aviation Corps - Updated

[fatman17]

If you think T-129 are not coming or it depends on USA then you are wrong. They are also coming but not in US engines.

The interest in Z-10ME came from a different reason.

the Z10ME is not a weapon of choice, but a weapon of last resort.

1. AH1Z
2. T129
3. Z10ME

 

[Sunny4pak]

It was reported in February 2020 that Pakistani Army has shown a serious interest in Z-10ME after jeopardization of the Turkish T129 attack helicopter deal. A recent video (September 2018) suggested that some Z-10s and Z-10Hs (S/N LH9621xx, 9531xx, 9631xx, 9511xx) have been further upgraded. It features external ceramic armor plates outside the forward and back cockpits as well as the engine compartment to provide a better protection against small AAA fire. MAWS sensors were installed on both sides of the nose. The gunner also wears the new HMD. The latest image (February 2020) indicated some have redesigned engine exhausts facing upward similar to those onboard Z-10ME in order to reduce IR signature.

Yes Sir its true & I have covered most of these upgrades in my recent video below.

If you think T-129 are not coming or it depends on USA then you are wrong. They are also coming but not in US engines.

The interest in Z-10ME came from a different reason.

True sir i am agreed with you as Z10ME's are not coming on the cost of T129 or AH1Z nor as a replacement options for both. It would be addition to PA Heli Inventory considering the updgrades & weapon system that Z10ME is offering alongwith MMW Radar in near future.

 

[mingle]

the Z10ME is not a weapon of choice, but a weapon of last resort.

1. AH1Z
2. T129
3. Z10ME

Chance are very good now that we will get all 3

 

[fatman17]

Chance are very good now that we will get all 3

option1
AH1Z & T129 with AH1S/F in long-term storage. 75%

option 2
T129 & Z10ME with AH1S/F in long-term storage. 100%

option 3
AH1Z, T129 & Z10ME with AH1S/F retired. 50%

there is a option 4 (worst case scenario)

Z10ME & AH1S/F

 

[mingle]

option1
AH1Z & T129 with AH1S/F in long-term storage. 75%

option 2
T129 & Z10ME with AH1S/F in long-term storage. 100%

option 3
AH1Z, T129 & Z10ME with AH1S/F retired. 50%

there is a option 4 (worst case scenario)

Z10ME & AH1S/F

Option 3 I hope why not let Ah1F to FC??

 

[FuturePAF]

Yes Sir its true & I have covered most of these upgrades in my recent video below.

True sir i am agreed with you as Z10ME's are not coming on the cost of T129 or AH1Z nor as a replacement options for both. It would be addition to PA Heli Inventory considering the updgrades & weapon system that Z10ME is offering alongwith MMW Radar in near future.

I really like your videos. the loitering munition was something I learned from you. Perhaps the Z-10ME Should also be asked to carry the CM-501GA
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/images/cm-501ga-image02.jpg
It is very similar to the Spike NLOS being put on the Apache AH-64E; 40-50 km range covered in about 4 minutes. It will allow it to be on par with the latest Apache, and maximize the utility of the loitering munitions as forward scouts for the Z-10ME.

btw, check out my idea to use Hurkus in the Northern Mountains to ambush Enemy helicopters. Its based on the Swiss air force's cold war doctrine of "raid-type operations"; STOL aircraft used for dynamic (mobile) defense and counter-air, while still retaining close-air support.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/karakorum-8-k-8-jet-trainer-aircraft.51303/page-56#post-12112072

 

[fatman17]

Option 3 I hope why not let Ah1F to FC??

possible in small numbers 4-6 subordinated. however I think army is in favour of the Mi35M for FC / MoI

 

[Shabi1]

Option 3 I hope why not let Ah1F to FC??

I agree with you now that PA has created the infrastructure for full overhaul of Cobra's instead of relying on local agent of Bell, these could be sent to FC, availability rate could be relaxed so these birds get more thorough maintenance or could be kept as reserves.
They've shown great resilience against small arms and don't really need to risk using $25-35m units against small arms armed men.
Armed patrol duties should go to UCAVs since that is the cheapest way and gives loads of loiter time.

 

[Sunny4pak]

option 3
AH1Z, T129 & Z10ME with AH1S/F retired. 50%

Sir you are right that the option 3 seems to be at 50% but it looks as if Pak will go for AH1Z with own funds in near future (if it is the case of funds only) while availing Z10ME on loan from china & t129 with turkish engine most probably in 2025. as far as AH1s/F are concerned it would be used same as PAF did with Mirages (but in limited numbers) for FC.

 

[FuturePAF]

option 3
AH1Z, T129 & Z10ME with AH1S/F retired. 50%

Sir you are right that the option 3 seems to be at 50% but it looks as if Pak will go for AH1Z with own funds in near future (if it is the case of funds only) while availing Z10ME on loan from china & t129 with turkish engine most probably in 2025. as far as AH1s/F are concerned it would be used same as PAF did with Mirages (but in limited numbers) for FC.

Perhaps this is a blessing in disguise. The Turks will be forced to develop an indigenous engine for their products from now on. Pakistan should wait till the Turks have developed the ATAK2 attack helicopters to acquire as the high end of the attack helicopter fleet (on par with the Apache)

In the mean time, Pakistan can refurbish it’s 48 AH-1S/F, and try to see if they can acquire the Z-10ME.

The Pakistan Army should also try to see if they can get the AH-1Z, but if it doesn’t look hopeful, they should move on as the Chinese weapons and sensors look to have caught up to other modern providers.

 

[Reddawn]

option1
AH1Z & T129 with AH1S/F in long-term storage. 75%

option 2
T129 & Z10ME with AH1S/F in long-term storage. 100%

option 3
AH1Z, T129 & Z10ME with AH1S/F retired. 50%

there is a option 4 (worst case scenario)

Z10ME & AH1S/F

Fatman, why is the PAA looking to get both the AH1Z AND T129?? Wouldn't it make sense from a logistical and cost perspective to get just one attach helo in numbers whether it is the T129; AH1Z or Z10ME?

 

[fatman17]

Fatman, why is the PAA looking to get both the AH1Z AND T129?? Wouldn't it make sense from a logistical and cost perspective to get just one attach helo in numbers whether it is the T129; AH1Z or Z10ME?

if there is a repeat order for AH1Z, then T129 may not be required as 12 examples may not be enough. at least 24 are needed to retire / store the current AH1S/F fleet. however PAA may go for Z10ME in a Hi/Lo config.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

IIRC...it's Z-10ME alone or the original AH-1Z/T129 combination.

Basically, if AH-1Z is coming, then by logical extension the T129 will come too because the bottleneck in both situations is the same: the US. The US won't approve one and deny the other. It's both or nothing. And if it's nothing, then the PAA will likely go for Z-10ME -- I guess 45-60 in one go.

 

[ziaulislam]

IIRC...it's Z-10ME alone or the original AH-1Z/T129 combination.

Basically, if AH-1Z is coming, then by logical extension the T129 will come too because the bottleneck in both situations is the same: the US. The US won't approve one and deny the other. It's both or nothing. And if it's nothing, then the PAA will likely go for Z-10ME -- I guess 45-60 in one go.

not necessary...
its possible that only AH1Z come. They might want Pakistan to simply buy more AH1Z

 

[mingle]

not necessary...
its possible that only AH1Z come. They might want Pakistan to simply buy more AH1Z

But what about mood of Congress???? they have super cobras as well in storage Pak can ask for both old and new one if Pak only wants US attack Heli