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Pakistan Army Aviation Corps - Updated

this is old news before the collapse of US-PK relations. there was a US500m FMS allocated to the counter-insurgency enhancement fund for 12 AH-1Z's. then it went off the table but PK continues to seek FMS funds for them to replace the AH-1F's.
this is where the Turkish T-129 story suddenly cropped up. PK does not have the funds to invest in the turkish program (not in the near term at least) and now when relations with the US are on the 'thaw' (ref: C130 upgrade), the AH-1Z remains on PK wish list.

It's a difficult decision either way. Although the T-129 deal did offer local assembly, the system still depends on an American turboshaft. Either way, neither the AH-1Z or T-129 offer a safe solution in terms of sanctions. If I were PAA, I'd pick up the AH-1Z for as cheap as possible, but for the long-term, work on a solution with a partner country. For example, the South African company ATE had an attack helicopter program (i.e. 'New Attack Helicopter') designed from the onset to give the developer partner helicopter manufacturing capabilities on top of a reasonably priced and capable system.

Private aviation group works on own attack-helicopter design
 
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Pakistan should acquire atleast 40 of Super Cobra's along with Black Hawk used versions... for long term.. Pakistan Army really required...
 
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It's a difficult decision either way. Although the T-129 deal did offer local assembly, the system still depends on an American turboshaft. Either way, neither the AH-1Z or T-129 offer a safe solution in terms of sanctions. If I were PAA, I'd pick up the AH-1Z for as cheap as possible, but for the long-term, work on a solution with a partner country. For example, the South African company ATE had an attack helicopter program (i.e. 'New Attack Helicopter') designed from the onset to give the developer partner helicopter manufacturing capabilities on top of a reasonably priced and capable system.

Private aviation group works on own attack-helicopter design

can i ask you please why PAA is not interested in the WZ-10. a large number are being inducted in the Chinese military. of course there has been a recent crash which could be a setback for this type. the engine has always been the main issue here.
 
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can i ask you please why PAA is not interested in the WZ-10. a large number are being inducted in the Chinese military. of course there has been a recent crash which could be a setback for this type. the engine has always been the main issue here.
I don't know anything for certain, but I think it's all political.

Pakistan doesn't have any money, so it can't buy anything, even from China (!). That said, China might be willing to cut Pakistan some help provided Pakistan stop helping the US (in Afghanistan) and India (by normalizing ties). That's not what Pakistan's doing, hence, no help, no WZ-10, no FC-20.
 
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Pakistan should acquire atleast 40 of Super Cobra's along with Black Hawk used versions... for long term.. Pakistan Army really required...
Sir USA will not give them we need to go for Attack helicopters from Turkey and we can get them with TOT those are good attack helicopters and Turkey is also developing Missiles and rockets for them so we can get those and if not in really large numbers at least we can get 12 first than when money is available buy or produce more @Aeronaut
 
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PAA Bell 412 and Mi-17 Helicopters over Blue Area on 2014 Pakistan Day Parade.

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The Highest Landing by an Alouette III in the World-August 1983
July 17, 2012

By Brig (R) Hashim Khan (47 PMA)

Brig Hashim

On a sunny morning of 4 August 1983, a member of a Belgian expedition team came to the KKH Detachment at Gilgit and told us that a few days ago, one of their members fell and tumbled a few hundred feet while climbing Rakaposhi, and now he can’t stand up. They had brought him down till Camp 5 and after that he can’t be carried further down. He said Camp 5 was at 5,500 metres. I was the capt of Alouette III and Maj Azam (Later Maj Gen) was my co-pilot, on continuation training.

We took off for their Base Camp which was upstream of Jaglot Gah. After landing we were told that Camp 5 was at 6,000 metres. After calculations we realised that it was not possible to take the co-pilot and then take off from that altitude with the casualty. So I decided to leave Maj Azam at the Base Camp. To keep a further safety, I got some fuel drained, got the skis, seats, and rear sliding doors removed. All my calculations were for landing and take off from 6,000 metres.

Rakaposhi

I took off alone, and kept climbing till I came abreast Camp 5 and my altimeter read 6,500 metres, on standard atmospheric settings, which was 200 metres more than the permitted altitude for Alt III helicopter. Anyway, the chopper was handling fine, so I decided to go in. Since I had used the updraft for a quick climb, was already short on fuel, and the location of Camp was such that I had no choice but to make the approach in tail wind.

Just at the short finals, my fuel gauge warning light flickered for the first time. I touched down just at the edge of the mountain side, so as to keep some portion of my rotor disc in the strong updraft, and since there weren’t any skis, so I kept the helicopter light on wheels, and since there were no rear sliding doors, there was no problem when the other members of expedition loaded the casualty in the helicopter. At that time my altimeter was reading slightly more than 6,500 metres.

I took off backwards and when I was well clear of the mountain, I made a left pedal turn and shoved the cyclic forward to build up speed and utilise the advantage of translational lift. The helicopter responded beautifully and at no time I had to pull more than 1 collective. There was virtual jubilation at the Base Camp. On our return flight to Gilgit, the fuel gauge light had stayed glowing continuously for 14 minutes, and when we landed at Gilgit helipad, we had just one more minute of fuel to go.

Maj Azam broke the news to DC Gilgit, who in turn gave it to newspapers, and that’s when shit hit the fan. Just a couple of weeks earlier, Maj JJ (Javed Jehan) had picked a casualty from 14,000 feet in a Puma and he was given a warning by higher ups. I had landed the chopper at an altitude which was almost 1000 feet higher than the permissible altitude (service ceiling ). An Alt III has a service ceiling of 21,000 feet and I had landed at 22,000 feet. A C of I was ordered and I knew my goose is cooked. Meanwhile the rest of the expedition reached Gilgit. We requested them not to give the correct altitude of Camp 5. Our stand was that it was located at 20,500 feet which would be 500 feet lower than service ceiling. The C of I had already found me guilty of violating fourteen SOPs, and operating higher than the service ceiling would have been a big nail in my coffin. I was already selected for a course on Cobras in USA and any flight safety violation would have debarred me from the course for 200 hours or 1 year (such were the rules then).

The C of I was in the final stages of completion in Avn Dte, when the King of Belgium announced their highest peace time medal for bravery. When Gen Zia learnt about this, he reciprocated by telling Brig Trimzi to forget the C of I and send a citation instead. I got ” Order of Leopold” from Belgium, which the protocol demanded to be conferred by the King himself, but I couldn’t go to Belgium because of contingencies of service.

Since the previous record for highest landing by Alt III was 19,5000 feet, which was at the top of Mount Kilimanjaro, Tanzania, and I had landed at 22,000 feet (verified from the expedition), which was a new record for Alt III helicopter, so Aero Spatial also wanted to honour me, but again due to contingencies of service my availability was denied.
 
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The Highest Landing by an Alouette III in the World-August 1983
July 17, 2012

By Brig (R) Hashim Khan (47 PMA)

Brig Hashim

On a sunny morning of 4 August 1983, a member of a Belgian expedition team came to the KKH Detachment at Gilgit and told us that a few days ago, one of their members fell and tumbled a few hundred feet while climbing Rakaposhi, and now he can’t stand up. They had brought him down till Camp 5 and after that he can’t be carried further down. He said Camp 5 was at 5,500 metres. I was the capt of Alouette III and Maj Azam (Later Maj Gen) was my co-pilot, on continuation training.

We took off for their Base Camp which was upstream of Jaglot Gah. After landing we were told that Camp 5 was at 6,000 metres. After calculations we realised that it was not possible to take the co-pilot and then take off from that altitude with the casualty. So I decided to leave Maj Azam at the Base Camp. To keep a further safety, I got some fuel drained, got the skis, seats, and rear sliding doors removed. All my calculations were for landing and take off from 6,000 metres.

Rakaposhi

I took off alone, and kept climbing till I came abreast Camp 5 and my altimeter read 6,500 metres, on standard atmospheric settings, which was 200 metres more than the permitted altitude for Alt III helicopter. Anyway, the chopper was handling fine, so I decided to go in. Since I had used the updraft for a quick climb, was already short on fuel, and the location of Camp was such that I had no choice but to make the approach in tail wind.

Just at the short finals, my fuel gauge warning light flickered for the first time. I touched down just at the edge of the mountain side, so as to keep some portion of my rotor disc in the strong updraft, and since there weren’t any skis, so I kept the helicopter light on wheels, and since there were no rear sliding doors, there was no problem when the other members of expedition loaded the casualty in the helicopter. At that time my altimeter was reading slightly more than 6,500 metres.

I took off backwards and when I was well clear of the mountain, I made a left pedal turn and shoved the cyclic forward to build up speed and utilise the advantage of translational lift. The helicopter responded beautifully and at no time I had to pull more than 1 collective. There was virtual jubilation at the Base Camp. On our return flight to Gilgit, the fuel gauge light had stayed glowing continuously for 14 minutes, and when we landed at Gilgit helipad, we had just one more minute of fuel to go.

Maj Azam broke the news to DC Gilgit, who in turn gave it to newspapers, and that’s when shit hit the fan. Just a couple of weeks earlier, Maj JJ (Javed Jehan) had picked a casualty from 14,000 feet in a Puma and he was given a warning by higher ups. I had landed the chopper at an altitude which was almost 1000 feet higher than the permissible altitude (service ceiling ). An Alt III has a service ceiling of 21,000 feet and I had landed at 22,000 feet. A C of I was ordered and I knew my goose is cooked. Meanwhile the rest of the expedition reached Gilgit. We requested them not to give the correct altitude of Camp 5. Our stand was that it was located at 20,500 feet which would be 500 feet lower than service ceiling. The C of I had already found me guilty of violating fourteen SOPs, and operating higher than the service ceiling would have been a big nail in my coffin. I was already selected for a course on Cobras in USA and any flight safety violation would have debarred me from the course for 200 hours or 1 year (such were the rules then).

The C of I was in the final stages of completion in Avn Dte, when the King of Belgium announced their highest peace time medal for bravery. When Gen Zia learnt about this, he reciprocated by telling Brig Trimzi to forget the C of I and send a citation instead. I got ” Order of Leopold” from Belgium, which the protocol demanded to be conferred by the King himself, but I couldn’t go to Belgium because of contingencies of service.

Since the previous record for highest landing by Alt III was 19,5000 feet, which was at the top of Mount Kilimanjaro, Tanzania, and I had landed at 22,000 feet (verified from the expedition), which was a new record for Alt III helicopter, so Aero Spatial also wanted to honour me, but again due to contingencies of service my availability was denied.

today the world record for the Highest Landing by an Alouette III is at an altitude of 7621 meters on Sasser Kangri massif in Eastern Ladakh. Flown by Group Capt A S Butola and Squadron Leader S Sharma the chopper landed at the Sasser Kangri depression between main and south peak at an altitude of 7070, pressure altitude of 7670 meters and density altitude of 7670 meters.
IAF chopper makes world's highest landing in Ladakh
Indian AF breaks USAF record, page 1


other record by indian air force is:
23,240 ft on Kamet glacier in the Garhwal Himalaya on 02-11-2004
ALOUETTE & LAMA
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highest landing by any IAF helicopter is 27,500 feet/8.382km in the Siachen by HAL dhruv mk.3
Bangalore ALH pilots fly high - The Times of India
 
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today the world record for the Highest Landing by an Alouette III is at an altitude of 7621 meters on Sasser Kangri massif in Eastern Ladakh. Flown by Group Capt A S Butola and Squadron Leader S Sharma the chopper landed at the Sasser Kangri depression between main and south peak at an altitude of 7070, pressure altitude of 7670 meters and density altitude of 7670 meters.
IAF chopper makes world's highest landing in Ladakh
Indian AF breaks USAF record, page 1


other record by indian air force is:
23,240 ft on Kamet glacier in the Garhwal Himalaya on 02-11-2004
ALOUETTE & LAMA
.
.
.
.
highest landing by any IAF helicopter is 27,500 feet/8.382km in the Siachen by HAL dhruv mk.3
Bangalore ALH pilots fly high - The Times of India

we're not starting a pissing contest are we?
 
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