Pakistan announces 5th-gen fighter and medium-altitude long-endurance UAV programs

[tarrar]

It was one hell of a announcement but so far till now there has been zero progress.

What is the latest update on the projects?

 

[Maxpane]

it will take time

 

[Trango Towers]

It was one hell of a announcement but so far till now there has been zero progress.

What is the latest update on the projects?

it was announced last week. what did you expect a flying prototype?

 

[Thorough Pro]

Info not being in public does not mean Zero progress.

It was one hell of a announcement but so far till now there has been zero progress.

What is the latest update on the projects?

 

[araz]

Info not being in public does not mean Zero progress.

Naa Bhai.We announced the project.It took a weak to write the speech for the ACM. Now another weak to read what has been said , then meetings of the Exec board tranmitting down the chain to sub committees, who will digest the information over the next two weeks. Then the design team will wake up from their slumbers and start thinking of the design. Twenty meetings down the line each a month apart and a lot of Samosas and Pakoras later, they bring the design and everyone finds out that the wrong design has been submitted. The Air Chief gets his stick out and beats the exec team who after recovering from the beating, call the sub committees and beat them. They take a couple of weeks to recover, they call the sub sub committee and beat them and the design team is formally summoned and beaten up. They all go on sick leave and the project comes to a stand still. After all it is Pakistan. Have fun!!!!! This is how the Indians perceive us and they are more than welcome to do so!!
A

 

[Trango Towers]

Naa Bhai.We announced the project.It took a weak to write the speech for the ACM. Now another weak to read what has been said , then meetings of the Exec board tranmitting down the chain to sub committees, who will digest hte information over the next two weeks. Then the design team will wake up from their slumbers and tstart thinking of the design. Twenty meetings down the line each a month apart and a lot of Samosas Pakoras later, they bring the design and everyone finds out that the wrong design has been submitted. The Air |Chief gets his stick out and beats the exec team who after recovering from the beating, call the sub committees and beat them. They take a couple of weeks o recover, they call the sub sub committee and beat them and thew design team is beaten up. They all go on sick leave and the project comes to a stand still. After all it is Pakistan. Have fun!!!!! This is how the Indiands perceive us and they are more than welcome to do so!!
A

You forgot that we arrive at work at 12 noon. Then it's lunch foe two hours after that tea is served and then it's time to catch the official transport home. At least that's what they did with jf17

 

[araz]

You forgot that we arrive at work at 12 noon. Then it's lunch foe two hours after that tea is served and then it's time to catch the official transport home. At least that's what they did with jf17

Hurrah man Life is Good Alhamdolillah!
A

 

[specters revenge]

There is a main problem with the project azam being the lack of the processors for it as we are using FPGA(field-programmable gate array) to process the system we lack the capacity to build the required processors ourselves as off the shelf are prone to having back doors in them we are currently acquiring the FPGA from xiilink and that to via a third party that is china as they have blacklisted Pakistan.

Secondly the ASIP(Application specific instruction set processors) are far superior to the FPGA in terms of processing power. therefore if we require true Indigenization we require a fabrication unit for it which i have heard is quite expensive and secondly it will not be imported to us. We do have the talent to create the processors but lack the resources to do so.

If we are able to acquire the fabrication unit it will be a stepping stone for the greater indeginzation and self reliance in terms of defence equipment.

 

[countryman]

Secondly the ASIP(Application specific instruction set processors) are far superior to the FPGA in terms of processing power. therefore if we require true Indigenization we require a fabrication unit for it which i have heard is quite expensive and secondly it will not be imported to us. We do have the talent to create the processors but lack the resources to do so.

If we are able to acquire the fabrication unit it will be a stepping stone for the greater indeginzation and self reliance in terms of defence equipment.

And that's isn't something that cannot be achieved - we can achieve this by sparing a few hundred millions $. I wish I had some big money - I would have made available as private effort

 

[specters revenge]

And that's isn't something that cannot be achieved - we can achieve this by sparing a few hundred millions $. I wish I had some big money - I would have made available as private effort

I agree with you but the greater deficit Pakistan is facing at the time is the so called Brain Deficit which states that pakistan doesnt produce high quality engineers and researchers that is why we are lacking in the development of our country as a nation.
Which is quite BS to be frank. We do posses the brain bank but that is almost under or not at all utilized. The government has left the academic wing quite underutilized and military has well. As the Army mostly doles out the projects to the NUST while most of other universities are left underutilized. If we diversify and provide funding and research opportunities to other universities as well and create a whole organization like DARPA that is when we can take new ideas and implement them.

Secondly we dont have enough private defense equipment development companies we have a few but they secured a niche for their products in the market and they are quite sure that they wont face any competition. If we dont provide enough incentives and remove the stigma that is placed upon pakistan which hinders the import/export and collaboration with foreign entities we will not see any progress.

Although the Project Azam is quite ambitious it is also quite vague in its scope. they have done the requirement analysis but they havent broken down the requirements to get detailed requirements. they are using top down approach rather than a bottom up. they should have first started out by cultivating various research and development activities in the universities than moved towards the establishment of a 5th generation aircraft. We are betting that we will just plunge our assets in the development of the 5th generation aircraft when most of them wont even know the technology that far advanced.

Tis the reason why most of the Pakistani efforts for full indeginization will not bear fruit as in some form or another we will still require foreign support from friends.

P.S I have seen some projects in 2011 where some students created flight altitude adjustment in drones via machine learning and Unmanned weapon systems by creating their own protocols but as they werent in NUST they were not picked up and not referred to the right authorities as well.

 

[countryman]

they have done the requirement analysis but they havent broken down the requirements to get detailed requirements. they are using top down approach rather than a bottom up. they should have first started out by cultivating various research and development activities in the universities than moved towards the establishment of a 5th generation aircraft. We are betting that we will just plunge our assets in the development of the 5th generation aircraft when most of them wont even know the technology that far advanced.

Bottom up approach requires endless efforts and devotion of whole nation and technology transfer will always be preferred over spending too much time and money on research. We're far behind the advanced nations. R&D is in fact essential for indigenous efforts but world is advancing much faster than what we're achieving. We must take the shortcut wherever available while the traditional setup continues and learns from new technology transfers. Hopefully, one day we can make some difference.

 

[Tipu7]

It was one hell of a announcement but so far till now there has been zero progress.

What is the latest update on the projects?

Project is going on. Several attempts related to funding are proven successful so far. Name of air craft is finalized.

 

[specters revenge]

My main concern at the time is that the Project Azam will be converted into another HIT episode. With an Air Force Marshal sitting at top with his old and antiquated ideas while the civilians are bound to lower ranks with no hopes of leading the institutes. Thus creating a stagnation and causing the civs to leave the project and seek employment elsewhere.

In my opinion this project and HIT should have a civilians and military boards. They should appoint the head of these organization a Military personal but it should be ceremonial. We should establish a closed defense journal system in Pakistan where people post their research findings and the industries takes a look at them get them peer reviewed and award contracts on these papers. Which will not only create a proper learning environment but also enable the researchers to come up with new ideas

 

[countryman]

My main concern at the time is that the Project Azam will be converted into another HIT episode. With an Air Force Marshal sitting at top with his old and antiquated ideas while the civilians are bound to lower ranks with no hopes of leading the institutes. Thus creating a stagnation and causing the civs to leave the project and seek employment elsewhere.

In my opinion this project and HIT should have a civilians and military boards. They should appoint the head of these organization a Military personal but it should be ceremonial. We should establish a closed defense journal system in Pakistan where people post their research findings and the industries takes a look at them get them peer reviewed and award contracts on these papers. Which will not only create a proper learning environment but also enable the researchers to come up with new ideas

I do agree with you on discrepancies in how things are done. There are several reasons, as random citizen, I only see the Govt institutions plagued with corruption, dishonesty, bribery, lack of capacity. I also want to see civilian institutes with greater competition and productivity but the fact remains - our Govt machinery is plagued. I don't know much about how things are done at institutions under Army's control but one thing I can say for sure is that they're producing something rather than doing nothing.

 

[specters revenge]

Bottom up approach requires endless efforts and devotion of whole nation and technology transfer will always be preferred over spending too much time and money on research. We're far behind the advanced nations. R&D is in fact essential for indigenous efforts but world is advancing much faster than what we're achieving. We must take the shortcut wherever available while the traditional setup continues and learns from new technology transfers. Hopefully, one day we can make some difference.

Yes but if we do get TOT and we dont create a proper learning environment on the tech and dont invite researchers to further study on them we will not achieve the desired results as i have outlined below.

We should establish a closed defense journal system in Pakistan where people post their research findings and the industries takes a look at them get them peer reviewed and award contracts on these papers.

If we dont do that it will be like suzuki pakistan where we acquired mehran in 1980s and still are using it while its counterpart has moved to ene charge while we are at efi and calling it an achievement.