Pakistan and Israel

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Islam does not encourage letting go of Muslim land the way it has happened in Palestine... rather there is promise of punishment for those who do not claim that land back and let go off it for good (like what our governments want us to do)...

Let us let go of Kashmir and India as well... they are doing much better under the government of Hindus and Sikhs...

 

[Ganga]

Islam does not encourage letting go of Muslim land the way it has happened in Palestine... rather there is promise of punishment for those who do not claim that land back and let go off it for good (like what our governments want us to do)...

Let us let go of Kashmir and India as well... they are doing much better under the government of Hindus and Sikhs...

So you are saying that India is a Muslim land?

 

[LeGenD]

Salams Safriz...

It wont happen... Thats all I m saying... Let me give you all a challenge actually... Get it done if you think it can be done and tell me... I ll stop posting out of shame for a full year...

We dont need Israel to progress yaar... what are you saying??

I think you should go to the first page of this post and you ll see some excellent answers to this issue...

Brother,

I strongly disagree with the statement that we don't need investment from other nations to make progress. Are we self-sufficient?

Israel is an industrial power. It can invest in our sectors of industry and defence. Look at the case of India and China. Why do they have good ties with Isreal?

It is not just about Israel. My point is applicable to the case of Russia as well.

I am not saying that we take a U-turn in our policy towards Israel within a day. However, I am in favor of making strong amendments within our short-sighted foreign policies which have got us in to big turmoil.

Look at our economic situation. Do you think that we are doing fine? Over 700 industries have stopped functioning in Pakistan over last 20 years. What is this?

As I said, enmity only creates hurdles in the path of progress. It does not helps us in any sense.

Due to our enmity, we have lost East Pakistan. Due to our short-sightedness, we are in an economical turmoil.

Also, have a look at the case of China. That nation also have a history of acting against Islamic elements.

For an example, read this: BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | China 'crushing Muslim Uighurs'

Did we protested over these sensitive matters? Did we asked China to stop?

We have friendly relations with China and we have reaped lots of rewards in return. Do you get the picture?

 

[LeGenD]

I dont know what you are suggesting here...i will let you clarify...

From what i understand..i would say that such friendship wont work for us...we need to build our economy from withing the country...without seeking friendship from any external source..they wont do it for us...we have to..
Israel wont make any difference to us...we will.

If we can solve our problems ourselves than why don't we just do it?

Nothing is better than being self-sufficient.

 

[CaptainPrice]

So you are saying that India is a Muslim land?

Mostly, not.But if u consider there are 270+ million muslims live there and it's fun that countries like arabia,turkey have less muslim-pop than that.

 

[Safriz]

If we can solve our problems ourselves than why don't we just do it?

Nothing is better than being self-sufficient.

Exactly...agreed.

As you said in a previous post that India and china benefited from Israeli investment...ask yourself a question...can Pakistan benefit from that? Do we have the assurances and infrastructure and above all the political stability for any foreign investor?
Remember when Nawaz sharif lured so many foreign companies to come to pakistan and invest in telecom and transport sector? The world responded..Telips came,Hyundai came,Daewoo came..Then cam eBenazir and just because Nawazsharif had started the projects ..she blocked everything and all the foreign investors lost to much money.
I still remember over a thousand Yellow cabs parked at a Mauripur yard on Hawksbay road...I used to see them parked until all of them rusted,rotted and rendered useless due to Sun and Maritime salty climate of that place...

India and china not only benefited from Israeli investment..they benefited from investors all over the world..because they had the infrastructure and the political stability and assurance we don't have..
Claiming that India and China developed only because Israel invested or because they had Diplomatic ties with Israel is wrong.

Call as many foreign investors as you want,but with such a track record of the country they wont come.

Israel should be the last place in the world we should look for any investment,as it will eventually destabilize and already unstable country.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

LeGend.

We are more than self sufficient... We dont need Israel anyway... Lot of other harmless and genuine countries would do for support and help and co operation...

We only need to sort out the mess that Safriz beautifully pointed out... Our weakness is our rulers and the corrupt useless system that we are running in our land...

 

[LeGenD]

Exactly...agreed.

As you said in a previous post that India and china benefited from Israeli investment...ask yourself a question...can Pakistan benefit from that? Do we have the assurances and infrastructure and above all the political stability for any foreign investor?
Remember when Nawaz sharif lured so many foreign companies to come to pakistan and invest in telecom and transport sector? The world responded..Telips came,Hyundai came,Daewoo came..Then cam eBenazir and just because Nawazsharif had started the projects ..she blocked everything and all the foreign investors lost to much money.
I still remember over a thousand Yellow cabs parked at a Mauripur yard on Hawksbay road...I used to see them parked until all of them rusted,rotted and rendered useless due to Sun and Maritime salty climate of that place...

India and china not only benefited from Israeli investment..they benefited from investors all over the world..because they had the infrastructure and the political stability and assurance we don't have..
Claiming that India and China developed only because Israel invested or because they had Diplomatic ties with Israel is wrong.

Call as many foreign investors as you want,but with such a track record of the country they wont come.

Israel should be the last place in the world we should look for any investment,as it will eventually destabilize and already unstable country.

I agree with your assessment. In case of Israel, resistance is also psychological in nature (from our side) and not just political instability and shortsighted foreign policy.

I never said that India and China only benefited from good relations with Israel. They progressed through other means as well.

Point is that India and China learned from their past mistakes and brought positive reforms within them. And now you can see their progress.

Why can't Pakistan do the same?

Here is a brief snapshot of Indo-Israeli relationship:

Indo-Israeli relations & its effects on Pak

Sadly, we have not yet learned any lessons from our mistakes.

 

[Safriz]

I agree with your assessment. In case of Israel, resistance is also psychological in nature (from our side) and not just political instability and shortsighted foreign policy.

I never said that India and China only benefited from good relations with Israel. They progressed through other means as well.

Point is that India and China learned from their past mistakes and brought positive reforms within them. And now you can see their progress.

Why can't Pakistan do the same?

Here is a brief snapshot of Indo-Israeli relationship:

Indo-Israeli relations & its effects on Pak

Sadly, we have not yet learned any lessons from our mistakes.

Well no..its the same from their side...Their Politicians will never fully accept Pakistan as a friend...Do you know that Israel is a hodgepodge of all sort of ethnicity and they got greater ethnic divisions than many countries in the world..Have you not read news reports of Caucasian Immigrants from Russia and ex USSR beating up Dark skinned Jewish Immigrants from Africa?
External troubles are regularly used as an escape goat from their politicians to cover their failures and to stop their people from fighting amongst each other.

Imagine if Pakistan and Israel establish diplomatic ties,and Pakistanis start going to Israel..there will be much hatred and alienation from them for us...same goes for any Israelis coming to Pakistan.
Then there is a strong possibility that Pakistan will be used as a escape goat for their political and economic problems at some point..or just to divert their public anger againt each other to somewhere outside.....If you know what i mean?

Why go for such troublesome friendship whne there are troublefree alternatives available?

 

[LeGenD]

Well no..its the same from their side...Do you know that Israel is a hodgepodge of all sort of ethnicity and they got greater ethnic divisions than many countries in the world..Have you not read news reports of Caucasian Immigrants from Russia and ex USSR beating up Dark skinned Jewish Immigrants from Africa?
External troubles are regularly used as an escape goat from their politicians to cover their failures and to stop their people from fighting amongst each other.

This is irrelevant. Ethnic rifts are common in many nations. They are present even in China.

Imagine if Pakistan and Israel establish diplomatic ties,and Pakistanis start going to Israel..there will be much hatred and alienation from them for us...same goes for any Israelis coming to Pakistan.
Then there is a strong possibility that Pakistan will be used as a escape goat for their political and economic problems at some point..or just to divert their public anger againt each other to somewhere outside.....If you know what i mean?

Why go for such troublesome friendship whne there are troublefree alternatives available?

And your assumptions are based upon? I am right when I said that 'psychological factors' also plague us.

Look at the case of Egypt and Turkey. They are Islamic nations and they have good relations with Israel. Please wake up. At the minimum, they are peacefully co-existing with each other.

Our unstable leadership system is the main factor due to which we become scape-goat for others and are taken advantage of. When we will realize this?

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

assalam alaikum,

Those who r advocating for relations with israel , now we have our best allies thay come and give us shabash on our back dont give the money that is needed for fighting terrorism and goto our eastern neighbor and give them wat ever they want. After the relations with israel , Barak or natanyahoo will come in islamabad and would say some nice word about us and plenty of advice on doing more and will travel to our eastern neighbor and improve their strategic ties ( just imagine if sharon was instead these two). If u ppl say that we can benefit from this relation then why we could not benefit from our relation with u.s and got 50% of wat our neighbor is getting?. Now if we talk about patriotism , Till now we have 10 masters who we lick their hands and u r asking me to add one more MASTER?. U ppl call for indepence of decision making , self respect but acting against it if u wanna make relations make it with cuba (if we dont have diplomatic relation )they sent hundered doctors during earthquakes or some other countries. Try to choose not corrupt politician and do good governance we r country of 170 million no one can ignore us if we respect ourself and not by selling ourselves cheap.

TARIQ

 

[LeGenD]

assalam alaikum,

Those who r advocating for relations with israel , now we have our best allies thay come and give us shabash on our back dont give the money that is needed for fighting terrorism and goto our eastern neighbor and give them wat ever they want. After the relations with israel , Barak or natanyahoo will come in islamabad and would say some nice word about us and plenty of advice on doing more and will travel to our eastern neighbor and improve their strategic ties ( just imagine if sharon was instead these two). If u ppl say that we can benefit from this relation then why we could not benefit from our relation with u.s and got 50% of wat our neighbor is getting?. Now if we talk about patriotism , Till now we have 10 masters who we lick their hands and u r asking me to add one more MASTER?. U ppl call for indepence of decision making , self respect but acting against it if u wanna make relations make it with cuba (if we dont have diplomatic relation )they sent hundered doctors during earthquakes or some other countries. Try to choose not corrupt politician and do good governance we r country of 170 million no one can ignore us if we respect ourself and not by selling ourselves cheap.

TARIQ

Sir, if you care to check history of India, you will get all the answers.

India tried to keep its foreign policy as independent as possible. And as a result, it has got lot of allies.

India recognized Israel in 1992. Do you know this?

Indians thought ahead of us. We are victims of our "extremist mentality."

Ever thought about Israeli factor when talking about our relationship with USA? Here is a hint for you: powerful Jewish Lobby in US

Since, we don't recognize existence of Israel; the jewish lobby in US does not have any soft corner for us.

Also, beggers are not respected in this world. Begging is forbidden even in Islam. Think about this.

We need to determine that where we went wrong instead of putting all the blame on others.

And who is stopping us from creating diplomatic ties with Cuba or other nations that we don't have any issues with? I am in support of developing good relationship with as many nations as possible.

 

[muse]

I do wish those who are opposed to diplomatic relations between Pakistan and Israel would offer us arguments that do not rely on bigoted propositions which they justify with equally offensive suggestions that these are "religious".

Just give us some clearly thought out arguments why such a position (diplomatic relations between Pakistan and Israel) are or will be harmful to Pakistan

 

[Safriz]

This is irrelevant. Ethnic rifts are common in many nations. They are present even in China.


And your assumptions are based upon? I am right when I said that 'psychological factors' also plague us.

Look at the case of Egypt and Turkey. They are Islamic nations and they have good relations with Israel. Please wake up. At the minimum, they are peacefully co-existing with each other.

Our unstable leadership system is the main factor due to which we become scape-goat for others and are taken advantage of. When we will realize this?

How is it irrelevant to explain the basis of their political unrest? and the reason why they wont be able to unanimously accept us as friends ...is irrelevant?

 

[Kambojaric]

I do wish those who are opposed to diplomatic relations between Pakistan and Israel would offer us arguments that do not rely on bigoted propositions which they justify with equally offensive suggestions that these are "religious".

Just give us some clearly thought out arguments why such a position (diplomatic relations between Pakistan and Israel) are or will be harmful to Pakistan

Well one argument would be a general sense of solidarity with Palestinians as our Kashmiri brothers are suffering the same fate as the Palestinians. I agree with the view Abu Zolfikar had, that once a Palestinian state is established we should initiate diplomatic relationships with Israel.