Pakistan and Israel

[500]

Israel might not support Pakistan but neither would the Palestinians or the Syrians or any of the militant groups in that area. Pakistan itself has no reason to support Palestine or to support Israel and we should just stay out of that general area. We have enough problems as it is, no need to add this to the list.

Well diplomatic relationships does not mean support. USSR and USA had diplomatic relationships even duringthe cold war, when they killed each other in Korea.

DID I miss something here ? Did I ever mention about the two mosque not being together on the same mount part of the same complex ?

Then why you jumped to the topic attacking me?

THE arcechlogical dig has been documented by Rabbis its not conspiracy you numb nut.

Archeological dig is not a secret and nothing has to do with any Rabbis. It does not posess any threat to Al Aqsa.

And if you want Conspriacy see what the ISraeli Govt say about palistenian terrorist groups like hamas - a threat to Isreal ?

They are threat to Israeli citizens, no one said that they are threat to Israel.

Why, did Israeli allowed them fire their firecrakers at Israeli boarders when Israel has the latest weapons and defence capabilties ?

Rockets are fired and stored in dence populated areas.

 

[silent hawk]

Self deleted

 

[LEGENDARY WARRIOR]

Generally, remember, most Arabs, most, do not give a damn about Pakistan. Why should we hurt our own interests supporting those who would not support us in our time of need? I am not referring to the Saudis, who have been very close to us, nor to the Yemenis, but rather to the Syrians, to the Iraqis, to the Palestinians. In fact, the Palestinians themselves stabbed the Turks in the back during WWI. That being said, that does not mean we should support Israel, we definitely have no need to do that either.

you are 100% right. .

 

[LEGENDARY WARRIOR]

Look, I REQUEST my Pak bros to please stop blaming Arabs especially Saudis right now. You just get a view of Saudi Arabia from internet but I have been there.

When Pakistan carried out the Nuclear explosions, the Saudis were so happy that it seemed like they themselves have become a Nuclear power. .
Please dont doubt there love for Pakistan. . .

 

[silent hawk]

Generally, remember, most Arabs, most, do not give a damn about Pakistan. Why should we hurt our own interests supporting those who would not support us in our time of need? I am not referring to the Saudis, who have been very close to us, nor to the Yemenis, but rather to the Syrians, to the Iraqis, to the Palestinians. In fact, the Palestinians themselves stabbed the Turks in the back during WWI. That being said, that does not mean we should support Israel, we definitely have no need to do that either.

The Jordanians have also been very close to and respect Pakistan a lot.

 

[Xestan]

"The believers, in their love, mutual kindness, and close ties, are like one body; when any part complains, the whole body responds to it with wakefulness and fever." [Muslim],

I cannot betray my Prophet [S.A.W], I have to answer him on the day of judgment, no mater whatever the arabs or anyone thinks of Pakistan, we have a duty from ALLAH to protect Muslims, Muslims are one body, there is nothing called nationalism in Islam, if you don't agree, you are denying Prophet [S.A.W]. Simple!

 

[silent hawk]

"The believers, in their love, mutual kindness, and close ties, are like one body; when any part complains, the whole body responds to it with wakefulness and fever." [Muslim],

I cannot betray my Prophet [S.A.W], I have to answer him on the day of judgment, no mater whatever the arabs or anyone thinks of Pakistan, we have a duty from ALLAH to protect Muslims, Muslims are one body, there is nothing called nationalism in Islam, if you don't agree, you are denying Prophet [S.A.W]. Simple!

I would suggest that in life especially in religion we should not deal in absolutes. There may be a provision for nationalism in Islam as given below

Al-Hujraat
O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). (13)

 

[S_O_C_O_M]

Generally, remember, most Arabs, most, do not give a damn about Pakistan. Why should we hurt our own interests supporting those who would not support us in our time of need? I am not referring to the Saudis, who have been very close to us, nor to the Yemenis, but rather to the Syrians, to the Iraqis, to the Palestinians. In fact, the Palestinians themselves stabbed the Turks in the back during WWI. That being said, that does not mean we should support Israel, we definitely have no need to do that either.

Arabs hate Iranians, Arabs hate Afghans, Arabs hate Turks, etc. Arabs hate Arabs . Arabs and other Semitic groups like Copts, Chaldeans, Assyrians hate each other. There are 22 Arab countries and Arabs are certainly not united. The Egyptians hate Saudis, Lebanese looking down on Yemeni, Kuwati hate Iraqis and so on. Look how the Iraqis killed each other off after the U.S. invaded...

 

[CardSharp]

Arabs hate Iranians, Arabs hate Afghans, Arabs hate Turks, etc. Arabs hate Arabs . Arabs and other Semitic groups like Copts, Chaldeans, Assyrians hate each other. There are 22 Arab countries and Arabs are certainly not united. The Egyptians hate Saudis, Lebanese looking down on Yemeni, Kuwati hate Iraqis and so on. Look how the Iraqis killed each other off after the U.S. invaded...

I wonder why the Arabs are so disunited? I've heard it conjectured that it is because their society is rooted in tribal nomadism.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

I wonder why the Arabs are so disunited? I've heard it conjectured that it is because their society is rooted in tribal nomadism.

That is because they do not refer to Islam in their affairs my dear CardSharp...

They will continue to be humiliated in this life (and the next) as long as they do not refer back to Islam for the solution to their problems... When you have petty organizations like Arab League, there is no way on Earth that they will get out of their current misery...

Nationalism is a disease, but the reality on ground is that it is pretty much dead... The only Nationalism that you will see today is confined to the rulers and leaders of the Arabs and they are doing it for two reasons... to please their masters in the west and to maintain the status quo of division amongst Muslims... The worst enemies that we have are our leaders, its as simple as that...

 

[silent hawk]

I wonder why the Arabs are so disunited? I've heard it conjectured that it is because their society is rooted in tribal nomadism.

Had this been the reason then History would bear witness that the Arabs were never united. The existance of a viable practically implementable Islamic model is what united the Arabs. The absense of this model is what most probably disunites them now.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

You are probably right. A lot of Arabs, especially those of Egypt, Kuwait and Dubai have a strong preference for India and the Indians. Nevertheless, I personally care for the Palestinian cause on humanitarian grounds if nothing else and am therefore strongly against expansionist policies of the Likud gov’t headed by Netanyahu.

I am however not anti Jewish only anti Zionist. Sad to say that there is no shortage of bigots, whether Muslim or Jewish or Hindu or new born Christians. As long as this situation prevails, a rational discussion is not possible on any sensitive issue. Following tactics of the Muslim killer Narender Modi of BJP, who accuses you of spying for Pakistan when he is at a loss for words; I find Pakistani bigots accuse you of being either a Qadiani or pro Jewish. I have been accused of being put up by the Jews by an honorable member on page 70 of this very thread.

I did not look at page 70 but have a hunch that you may be referring to me (if not thats grand)... but if yes please read on...

My elder brother... NO... I m not accusing you of any such thing... My only concern is that sometimes we in our good nature as Muslims lose track of our objectives and completely go off tangent... and sometimes we are not clear in our ideals or at least in the expression of them, we remain vague...

What more can I ask of you niaz as long as you state that you are supporter of Jewish welfare but against the Zionist ideology... This is what any Muslim should aspire to and as long as you state this clearly, then there is no difference between my ideas and your ideas... Israel is the very expression of Zionism in the world and once you reject it as a model for solving the Palestinian problem than like it or not, you shall be treated as an enemy by the Zionist state and neither they nor the Islamist will differentiate between you or any other Muslim who sincerely wants an end to the ongoing violence that is happening in Palestine...

As for Qadianis or people being paid for creating an opinion... it was not an accusation my dear... it was more like a warning that we should be aware of adopting ideas that are spread around for Zionist propaganda and misinformation... Just take a look at what 500 says here... Can anyone ever take someone like him seriously who states things like Israel does not target civilians... that too in this day and age of information being available to everyone...

Lastly... brothers (this is not just for niaz here) but all those who desire to live and die as Muslims, great tests are coming upon us... and our personal differences aside, we are the only ones who can and should look out for each other... watch each others backs and never let doubt enter into our hearts for each other... This division game of our enemies is fast coming to an end... inshaAllah the Ummah of Muhammad saw shall be given the huge responsibility of becoming the care takers of the world once again... so our stance should be of dignity, justice and the best character... I think we can certainly achieve this... inshaAllah

 

[ARSENAL6]

Well diplomatic relationships does not mean support. USSR and USA had diplomatic relationships even duringthe cold war, when they killed each other in Korea.
Then why you jumped to the topic attacking me?
Archeological dig is not a secret and nothing has to do with any Rabbis. It does not posess any threat to Al Aqsa.
They are threat to Israeli citizens, no one said that they are threat to Israel.
Rockets are fired and stored in dence populated areas.

Your post in red with mine in blue

DID I miss something here ? Did I ever mention about the two mosque not being together on the same mount part of the same complex ?

Then why you jumped to the topic attacking me?

...and weren't we talking about the mosque being on the same mount ?


I attack anyone who indirectly support genocide, holocaust by supporting things that IDF do and ignoring their action on Palestinian people WHICH A PRETTY SIMILAR TO Nazi.
here are examples of your post on other threads like justifying state-of-art weapons that Israel doesn't need and is backed up the US against anyone fro the middle east who dares to attack not mention nearly all Arab govt like Saudi are puppet to American and will do anything -going off topic here this just an example)

1) You did not know that Syria attacked Israel after Six day war.
2) As I said, Iran is using proxies because Israel has technological advantage. Otherwise they would not be afraid to attack us directly. We need to maintain this advantage.
3) Many of Israeli jets are very old, they need to be replaced anyway.
4) Why you are not wondering about Saudi Arabia that buys 60 bln weapons. Why they need hundreds of F-15 with AESA radars? - Against Yemeni insurgence?
.

no proof of Syria attacking after six day please give links if you know different.
and this

It was not a mosque. There is no any picture of "mosque" prior to destruction.

whether before or not the picture does show destruction of the mosques and its contents like the holy quran. Making such sarcastic remarks on someones suffering you simply have no sympathy and you justify the cause - thus going back to the reason why I attack people who support genocide. And yes such destruction is part of genocide its the erasing of people's culture, believes and religion - their way of life and mass murdering people that the Israeli govt and IDF are working so hard to achieve a fully
so-called "Jewish" state.

And Speaking about genocide here is what is Israel doing that Nazi Germany try to do in WW2 (Holocaust):

http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/1998/11/16272

Beside if a Muslim said things like "It was not a synagogue or Hindu Temple or church. There is no any picture of "synagogue or Hindu Temple or church" prior to destruction"
when clearly there was, just like you have done you would have spend half of your life accusing Muslim as being extremist that harbour hate to everyone.

Can we say that about you after that sick sarcastic remarks you made - which is on the same level of the jokes about Jews in the oven during the Holocaust of WW2 ?


---------------------

THE archaeological dig has been documented by Rabbis its not conspiracy you numb nut.

Archeological dig is not a secret and nothing has to do with any Rabbis. It does not posess any threat to Al Aqsa.

I clearly showed what AL-Aqsa and the temple mount. my post at 1227

Here is the link of the destruction of Al-aqsa mosque:
Al-Aqsa mosque under threat of destruction - Kavkazcenter.com
Militant Coalition of Christian Fundamentalist and Jewish Orthodox Cults Plots Destruction of Al Aqsa Mosque

-----------------------------

And if you want Conspiracy see what the Israeli Govt say about Palestinian terrorist groups like Hamas - a threat to Israel ?

They are threat to Israeli citizens, no one said that they are threat to Israel.

???
SO where do Israeli citizens come from ? Pakistan ? England, America , Iran, Saudi Arabia, Mars, Vulcan ?


---------------------------------

Why, did Israeli allowed them fire their firecrackers at Israeli boarders when Israel has the latest weapons and defence capabilities ?

Rockets are fired and stored in dence populated areas.

I SAID WHY DID THEY ALLOW THEM TO FIRE not where they were stored ! Re-read what I have posted and stop avoiding the question.
BTW isn't quite out of portion that Palistinan kids are thowing stone and Israel is using Tanks, Gunship, f16 and Warship against them ?


If Nazi Germany are at fault for extermination of a race people then what the hell does it say about Israel when creating ethnic bomb

http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/1998/11/16272

Every Jew has the right to fight back against any racist nazi aggression to survive just like any Arab has the right to fight back against any racist Israeli aggression to survive .


I guess you're going to apply simply to keep up the propaganda which are nothing more than silly illogical posts.
but here something for you :

YouTube - Israeli Army of Cyber-Soldiers Target Our Right to Know

YouTube - Israeli Minister "We always use the anti-Semitism trick or bring up the Holocaust"

Obviously like you have done in the past when replying to my post twisting my words and avoiding the question and if you do it again it only proves that what I'm saying is the truth and you are just ranting with a hot head. Here is a hint if an agruement has been delt with then it in you best interest to understand it and stop instead of ranting on and on like headless chicken. It is absolutly living in fantasy land to say that the Israel is innocent, doing no harm but only the arabs are the only one causing troubles.


I will now end it for your sake and I won't continue the agruement.
However if you persists that you agree with the action of Israeli govt (see above) genocide of Arabs ( completely different from defending Israel) then it only proves that your argument are example of the hysterical neurotic personalities which immerse yourselves in denial as you fight to maintain you ignorance, your ridged weakness, backward and racist views . Naturaly you won't answer my question and keep avoiding the issue at hand as predicted and typical of your sort. You know, deep down inside you, that I'm right and you were wrong in the first place.

BTW for re-assurance for you, you look more unreliable and a bit off your rocker (trying to be extremly polite here ) when you do make absurd comment of IDF being a force for good when the opposite is more of the truth and within reality.

 

[Kambojaric]

I wonder why the Arabs are so disunited? I've heard it conjectured that it is because their society is rooted in tribal nomadism.

I would say they are so disunited because Arabs arent actually a racial group, but an amalgimation of several ethnic groups who adopted the arabic language as their mother tounge. So an Arab of Morocco wont have much in common with an Arab from Oman. In fact their dialects will differ so much that some even classify them as different languages. Hence the perception that exists that Arabs form one unified block in the Middle East is actually not true. Arabs of Lebanon take pride in their Phenocian heritage. Arabs of Iraq take pride in their Babylonian heritage and i need not mention what the Egyptians are proud of. Thus their is a lot of local pride present, hence the rivalries.

 

[khansaheeb]

Far-right minister says Israel 'in charge' during visit to Jerusalem holy site

Israel's hard-right Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir visited a site in Jerusalem holy to both Muslims and Jews on Sunday and declared Israel was "in charge", drawing condemnation from Palestinians after months of escalating tension and violence. The comments, during an early morning visit to...

uk.finance.yahoo.com

Far-right minister says Israel 'in charge' during visit to Jerusalem holy site​

Reuters
Sun, 21 May 2023 at 9:52 am BST·2-min read

Israeli National Security Minister Ben-Gvir says Israel 'in charge' during visit to Al-Aqsa compound also known to Jews as the Temple Mount in Jerusalem's Old City
JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel's hard-right Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir visited a site in Jerusalem holy to both Muslims and Jews on Sunday and declared Israel was "in charge", drawing condemnation from Palestinians after months of escalating tension and violence.
The comments, during an early morning visit to the Al-Aqsa mosque compound, sacred to both Muslims and Jews, who know it as Temple Mount, came days after groups of Jewish youths scuffled with Palestinians and chanted racist slogans during a nationalist march through the Old City.
"I'm happy to ascend the Temple Mount, the most important place for the people of Israel," Ben-Gvir said during his visit to the compound, the most sensitive point between Muslims and Jews in Jerusalem and the site of repeated confrontations.
In 2021, tensions around Al-Aqsa contributed to setting off a 10-day war with the Islamist Hamas movement that controls the Gaza Strip. Hamas has warned repeatedly that it would react to what it sees as Jewish incursions on the site, which stands in Jordanian custodianship under a longstanding "status quo" arrangement put in place to contain tensions.
"All the threats from Hamas will not help, we are in charge here in Jerusalem and all of the Land of Israel," Ben-Gvir said.
For Jews, Temple Mount is the holiest place, where the biblical King Solomon built the first Temple 3,000 years ago and where a second Temple was razed by the Romans. Today, the hillside site is the third holiest in Islam, holding Al-Aqsa mosque with the Dome of the Rock, believed to be where the Prophet Mohammad ascended to heaven.
Under the status quo arrangements, non-Muslims may visit the site in the heart of the Old City but are not allowed to pray. However Jewish visitors have been increasingly defying the ban, more or less openly.
Palestinians consider defiance of the ban on prayer as a provocation and fear that Israel intends to take over the site.
A spokesman for Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said Ben-Gvir's "incursion at an early hour, like thieves, into the Al-Aqsa Mosque courtyards will not change the reality and will not impose Israeli sovereignty over it."
A Hamas spokesman said Israel would bear the consequences for Ben-Gvir's "savage assault" on the mosque and it called on Palestinians to step up their visits and "stand as a rampart in the face of all attempts to defile it and make it Jewish."
Israel captured the Old City of Jerusalem, which includes Al-Aqsa and the adjacent Western Wall, a sacred place of prayer for Jews, during the 1967 Middle Eastern war.
Israel has since annexed East Jerusalem, in a move not recognized by the international community, and regards the entire city as its eternal and undivided capital. Palestinians want East Jerusalem as the capital of a future state.
(Reporting by James Mackenzie; Editing by Alexandra Hudson)