Pakistan and Indonesia's blasphemy laws have no basis in the Qur'an

[VCheng]

You were claiming that Blasphemy Laws are part of the Quran and Hadits.

No where is it mentioned in the Quran or Hadits that a person will be put to death for apostasy.

Now please explain why Pakistan's Blasphemy Laws have this provision?

Please read the following:

Qur'an (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them"

Qur'an (9:11-12) - "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."

Other verses that seem to support the many Hadith demanding death for apostates are Qur'an verses 2:217, 9:73-74, 88:21, 5:54, and 9:66.

and this:

Bukhari (52:260) - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' " Note that there is no distinction as to how that Muslim came to be a Muslim.

Bukhari (83:37) - "Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."

Bukhari (84:57) - [In the words of] "Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Bukhari (89:271) - A man who embraces Islam, then reverts to Judaism is to be killed according to "the verdict of Allah and his apostle."

Bukhari (84:58) - "There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, 'Who is this (man)?' Abu Muisa said, 'He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.' Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, 'I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice.' Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, 'Then we discussed the night prayers'"

Bukhari (84:64-65) - "Allah's Apostle: 'During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection.'"

Abu Dawud (4346) - "Was not there a wise man among you who would stand up to him when he saw that I had withheld my hand from accepting his allegiance, and kill him?" Muhammad is chastising his companions for allowing an apostate to "repent" under duress. (The person in question was Muhammad's former scribe who left him after doubting the authenticity of divine "revelations" upon finding out that he could suggest grammatical changes. He was brought back to Muhammad after having been captured in Medina).

Reliance of the Traveller (Islamic Law) o8.1 - "When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed." (o8.4 affirms that there is no penalty for killing an apostate).

 

[Xestan]

You were claiming that Blasphemy Laws are part of the Quran and Hadits.

No where is it mentioned in the Quran or Hadits that a person will be put to death for apostasy.

Now please explain why Pakistan's Blasphemy Laws have this provision?

Oh that, here's a reference from the 2 most authentic books of Hadith.

Al-Bukhaari (6484) and Muslim (1676) narrated that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god except Allaah and that I am the Messenger of Allaah, except in one of three cases: a soul for a soul (i.e., in the case of murder); a previously-married person who commits zina; and one who leaves his religion and separates from the main body of the Muslims.”

Actually, there are conditions for a man who has committed apostasy, according to Dr. Zakir Naik, a man shouldn't be put to death if he quietly changes his religion and doesn't work against Islam or Muslims. But widely accepted view is that a man should be given 3 chances to repent, then should be executed.

I really didn't want to get myself involve into a religious debate here, just 'cause you asked twice, I'm answering you. See, without understanding the context of this punishment, one can find these laws bit too harsh. So, this takes some knowledge of Islam to understand these things. I hope, your intention was not of trolling and you really wanted to know the answer. Please, study more about the subject yourself. Whether you agree or not is your own choice.

 

[SQ8]

The issue here is NOT that the concept of Blasphemy is wrong or not..
its the interpretation of how that applies in the real world..

Thanks to VC we have direct proof to compare and interpret.

Starting with the the first Verse from Surah Nisa

The they in the verse are Munafiqeen(hypocrites) and Apostates. This surah was revealed in Medina.. during the time where there were hypocrites and apostates in among the ranks of Muslims and were conspiring against Muslims with the Meccan Pagans. They would try to talk and convince other muslims to doubt their religion and offered them to leave Islam and return to the way of their fathers.. thus a direct threat to the spread and continuation of Islam.
The verse first talks about isolating these apostates..to socially outcast them in an effort to get them to repent their ways.
The word "Hijrat" is used.. which has the simplest meaning leave.
So the apostates are offered the chance of leaving the land(exile) or leaving their view(returning to the fold, asking god for mercy etc).
If they did not stick to any of those options and continued to be a threat to Muslim society.. then the orders were to arrest them.. and kill them if they resisted.

Now even in the Prophets sayings quoted..
It is observable that those that have been ordered to be killed are those that pose a direct threat to the religion.
. Those that speak out against Islam and try to influence others to do that same , hence creating unrest in the Society.

How this translates into a law that effect a 14 year old christian girl is beyond me.
So yes.. the laws of Pakistan are NOT correctly implemented with regards to Blasphemy(or Rape either in that case).

And the fault lies not with the religions text, rather with the interpreters themselves.

 

[Xestan]

The issue here is NOT that the concept of Blasphemy is wrong or not..
its the interpretation of how that applies in the real world..

Thanks to VC we have direct proof to compare and interpret.

Starting with the the first Verse from Surah Nisa

The they in the verse are Munafiqeen(hypocrites) and Apostates. This surah was revealed in Medina.. during the time where there were hypocrites and apostates in among the ranks of Muslims and were conspiring against Muslims with the Meccan Pagans. They would try to talk and convince other muslims to doubt their religion and offered them to leave Islam and return to the way of their fathers.. thus a direct threat to the spread and continuation of Islam.
The verse first talks about isolating these apostates..to socially outcast them in an effort to get them to repent their ways.
The word "Hijrat" is used.. which has the simplest meaning leave.
So the apostates are offered the chance of leaving the land(exile) or leaving their view(returning to the fold, asking god for mercy etc).
If they did not stick to any of those options and continued to be a threat to Muslim society.. then the orders were to arrest them.. and kill them if they resisted.

Now even in the Prophets sayings quoted..
It is observable that those that have been ordered to be killed are those that pose a direct threat to the religion.
. Those that speak out against Islam and try to influence others to do that same , hence creating unrest in the Society.

How this translates into a law that effect a 14 year old christian girl is beyond me.
So yes.. the laws of Pakistan are NOT correctly implemented with regards to Blasphemy(or Rape either in that case).

And the fault lies not with the religions text, rather with the interpreters themselves.

Exactly, thanks for explaining.

And, the issue of apostasy is a complicated one, you can't just order everyone to be killed, like you explained and I mentioned in my posts above, Dr. Zakir Naik has the same view. In other words, it's like committing treason against Islam and that's what is liable of death.

The application of blasphemy laws in Pakistan is the main issue here but some people directly attack the Sharia'ah laws, even laws about murder are being misused, the idea here is to make the system work right way, which I'm very hopeful is going through a change right now, 'cause amending these laws is not possible as some people wish, 'cause popular public support is with it.

 

[Tshering22]

Thats exactly I am doing right now.... but officially buddhism is different religion & differs from hinduism

There are a lot of "official" things in our country which don't make any sense. Rahul Gandhi is one example.

Does it mean that's how ancestrally it has been?

Universities such as Nalanda and Takshashila encouraged hosting philosophical debates between both Buddhist and mainstream Hindu students called Vivada and it used to be very open-minded peaceful and enlightening.

Here's the thing; most of the "official" stuff about ancient life in our country today is nothing but twisted colonial, foreign contortions of real facts.

Don't take them seriously.

According to socialist idiots, my visiting a Hindu temple for meditation would be blasphemy. If I were to take their logic as they framed it, I'd be a 'wajib ul qatl' by my own community. Which is not even remotely the case.

Please visit NE India and even Southeast Asia and you will see how the two philosophies go beautifully hand in hand, as if two rivulets joining downhill into a crystal clear, pure river.