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Pakistan and Egypt

I dont want that to happen now.
It will cause a lot of bloodshed and thousands will lose their lives.
We want the parties to fight and break, then we take the chance, as they would be less stable.

We all want revolution but arent ready to sacrifise our lives, and want to have it on lives of thousand others, who will be forgotton, but they play major role.

Can you remember the names of those who gave their lives for formation of Pakistan? :cry:

We want it, but a unite and organised one with Pakistan Army on our side. We want to minimise the possibility of lakes of blood of innocent. We want to have our Pakistan back, and snatch it from the traitors.

Regards.
A expert in this topic :)

Pakistan Zindabad
 
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^^^ We may "want" or "wish" for many things, but sometimes hard realities get in the way.
 
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Im sorry to say bro, but u have absolutely NO idea of the dynamics of a socio-political grounds that leads to a revolution. Allow me to enunciate catagorically, and I hope u will respond to my questions in ur next post.


Pakistanis are too stupid, inbred, illiterate, intolerant and unorganized to have a revolution. I was also being gentle in my phrasing.

Are u ramifying that in order to bring about a revolution, the masses should be very highly educated or even slightly educated? Let me tell u that Mao qoutes in his works that a mere 20% people are more than enough to bring about a violent change in the political landscape of a corrupt country. it is precisely because the better percentage of the nation is illiterate which results in a bloody revolution on the contrary! Intollerance as u mentioned is one of the hi-lights of the underlying frustation among the masses, and it is this discontent that leads people to pick up weapons and resort to street justice. Do u think China were very organised as a nation which led them to revolt? No, that was the after effect! before the revolutions China was the hole of Asia, with large populace use to consume hash instead of tea!. heck, even if all the traits that I have mentioned are not present in a country and one of them is strong enough, the elite had better pack their bags before they are packed in body bags.



Pakistan does not have the ethnic homogeneity, foresight, or internet access to organize such a grass roots rising, compared to Egypt/Tunisia.

Im going to share a qoute of Che, the father of modern geurilla warfare and THE most celebrated icon of the 21 century. " IT IS AT THE END THAT WE SEE THE PROFOUND TRAGEDY WHICH CIRCUMSCRIBES THE LIFE OF THE PROLETARIAT THE WORLD OVER. This my dear encapsulates the crux of a revolution! Not forsight, Not organisation, not ethnic homogeneity. The common denominator is when people start dying of hunger, the youth starts to commit suicide due to loss of heart, the law enforcers become uniformed thugs. by ur logic, the whole idea of revolution starts to loose its romantic appeal and becomes ineffectual, and THAT my dear Im not willing to agree upon.




Also what if they do have an uprising, who will lead that country? Pakistanis tend to vote on family name, like Bhutto and Shariff, even though they have all but destroyed that country economically. Have you seen politicians campaigning in that country? They keep telling people how to vote by recognizing symbols, as the common masses are too illiterate to read the ballot.

Are you insinuating that there is absolutely NO ONE in Pakistan to replace the likes of bhuttos & sharifs, think again. Your PoV about people electing them over and over again objectionable since there are no free and fair elections in Pakistan, they are all rigged!. The last time less than 40% of the people came out to vote! The number of votes casted in many areas of Pakistan actually exceeded the numbers of voters actually listed! This is testimony that the election commision and the politicians were working hand in glove. These things are not going unnoticed by the illiterate classes either, and beleive me they are becoming very angry very fast. they want somebody's a55 and they want it now! And they certainly dont need internet connections! :lol:


Moreover the country will turn on itself, along ethnic lines once any so called revolution happens. Sad to say, 60+ years after independence, other than hating India, there is not much gluing that place together.

Ethnic lines were present in russia as well, they were existing in France as well. that didnt stop them from a revolution, The french beheaded The french royalty Marie Antionette not becuase she uttered some ethnical reason but because of her gross insensitivity towards her subjects. Beleive me, Pakistan's position is very like that of poland in the late 1800s and damn did they throw out the monarchy! As far as hating India is concerned, why should we not hate India? it conspires against us, sends sabatuers across the borders, tries to rally international suport to brand us as terrorists. And is an over all bully of the region.

I would suggest that u carefully study the Russian, French, Chinese, Cuban, Iranian revolutions for a better comprehension of such violent political behavior by a nation. At the very least read this book "CHE GUEVARA by David Sandison.

Bro, u know what, I'll tell u 3 incidents that happened with me. the other day, I was buying pan, and a few more people were present there. They were litterally discussing KILLING their local MNA becasue he was such a bastard! Then I was having Chat on a road side and i over heard the waiters conversing. here's what they were saying 'Misr mey tou inqalaab agaya ab Pakistan ki bari hey' then they collectively accepted that they would be part of such a struggle. While I was walking home from work, i saw two policemen harrassing two guys in bikes. These bikers were getting so aggressive with the police walas that the naked aggrevation was palpalable. Finally, the policemen wanted to back off, but these bikers were'nt backing down. they seemed to have been gripped by an undauntable spirit that just wanted to fight back.

Sorry for the lengthy post but I really wanted to give my PoV some coherent examples. regards
:pakistan:
 
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Hi, this was an interesting article in the NYTimes. The PM is living in a dreamworld, claiming the institutions are working and the economy is not that bad. I was really saddened to read the common person has to endure such hardships, choosing between educating your kids or food, or antibiotics or food. Take care.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/04/world/asia/04pakistan.html?_r=1&ref=world
 
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Any translation available?

TRANSLATION OF THE ARTICLE BY HAMID MIR


In Feb 2009 I got a chance to closely observe the dispicable face of democracy in the form of liberal fascism. There had been the savage and ruthless bombing of the occupied Palestinian Territory of Gaza by Israel and I was trying to enter into Gaza through the Egyptian border region of Raffa. I had an explicit written letter of the Egyptian Foreign Ministry and the Egyptian Ministry of Information to this effect but the secret police of Egypt on the Rafa border had an objection on my visit to Gaza through Rafa crossing.

I tried to persuade them but they told me to get the new letter from the Ministries. I traveled 500 km from Rafa to Cairo and came back with the new permission letter that they had asked for. One of the officers of the Egyptian Secret Police told me that they did not want me to come back and here I was in front of him after traveling 1000km in a single day. I tried my best to convince him but to no avail, the embassy of Pakistan was also helpless in this matter. Then a French journalist saw that I was being troubled by these secret police. He then made a call from his mobile and I was allowed to cross into Gaza. When we entered into Gaza the French journalist smiled and told me that he had settled the score by helping me in Egypt because in had helped him in Afghanistan. I then asked him who did he called on the phone and He told me that he called the French girl friend of a relative of the President Husni Mubarrak and she happened to be in Cairo at the time. I will never be able to forget the level of insult and humiliation the Palestinian women had to face at the hands of Egyptian Secret Police. They felt more like Israeli police than the Egyptian police. In Gaza after US and Israel the county that was cursed upon the most was Egypt. The Gazan’s called the Egyptian president as a Pharaoh incarnate and now in 2011 the people of Egypt have come to streets against this Pharaoh incarnate. The winds of change have reached Egypt from Tunisia. In this situation US has scrambled to defend its hypocritical support for democracy and impartiality.

The fact of the matter is that Hosni Mubarrak has been supporting the US and Israel and now US is trying to replace him with there blue eyed EL-Baradi. This wave of change from the North Africa to Middle East worries US and Israel more than anyone else. Egypt Jordan and Tunisia had supported Israel for a very long time and the people now have rebelled against these Liberal Fascist Dictatorships. If we look at the recent past these Liberal Fascist Regimes had always been supported by the US but in the past ten to fifteen years the religious fanatics had tried to oust these regimes using suicide attacks. Both of these groups are in minority and both of them believe in the use of force. One fires bullets and bombs in the name of democracy while the other does suicide bombings in the name of religion. The great majority of people are stuck between the two opposing factions and are now out on the streets. On the surface Pakistan has a democracy and free press to some extent but the western analyst are predicting similar change in Pakistan because US sponsored policies in the past ten or so years had brought nothing but pain and misery to the people. The people of Pakistan are also stuck between these Liberal Fascist and religious fanatics but now there patience seems seen running out.

The rulers of Pakistan must understand that US will not always be able to support them by looking at the way people are treating the photos of Zain Al Abidin of Tunisia and Hosni Mubbarak of Egypt today. Instead of helping an Ally in trouble the United States indeed creates more trouble for them. A Lahore Embassy staffer shot dead two people while one of the consulate vehicle crushed another to death. When Punjab police arrested this killer the US declared him a diplomat and tried to cover up using Geneva Convention and demanded his immediate release. The liberal Fascist friends of the Americans are hell bent on declaring the innocent victims are robbers where as the matter has to be decided by the courts. Some officers of the Punjab police are in touch with the US authorities and are trying there best to dilute the case as much as possible through poor investigation so that the killer could take the benefit. But the real question is that Why this embassy staffer was roaming about with fake car registration plates and a illegal loaded gun?
The US government considers this culprit to be innocent citing International Law but would this government tell us under which International laws it bombs Pakistan using predator drones?How did a Pakistani citizen Dr Afia Siddiqui was arrested in Afghanistan and was then carried to the US In defiance of the international law?. The truth of the matter is that this request for the release of this murderer of Pakistani’s is enough for turning Pakistan in Egypt. This is called liberal Fascism. Please think for a moment the US denounces the murder of the slain governor salmar tasir while when its own embassy car crushes a person to death the US says they have immunity under International law.
This is the crux of the matter and if any one tries to high light this he is tried to be silenced through declaring him an ally of the liberal fascists. Its is about time that people of Pakistan should get united and rally against this US black mail while at the same time also opposing and getting rid off the liberal fascist and religious fanatic forces. The fate of this killer is to be decide by the courts if this does not happen then Pakistan will also become Tunisia and Egypt. Only one Housni Mubarrak fled Tunisia while in Pakistan many Housni Mubarraks will flee the country.:pakistan:
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The article above reflects the opinion of Pakistani journalist Hamid Mir and are not my personal comments.
 
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Webby, there is no ummah when the sword points at you. Ummah, brotherhood is a rhetoric for the population--local consumption.

Sorry bro, not all people ( regardless of their diasporal connections) are afraid of swords pointing at them. Thats a very bleak stereotype. Joan of Arc, Sultan Tipu are two examples that deny ur genralization. The human will of each person is different and thats why we are all individuals.
:pakistan::pakistan:
 
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The Pakistani and Egyptian societies are quite different.

Pakistan has a more tribal culture, in which one lays down his loyalty towards his clan, tribe or ethnic group. This is far less the case for Egypt.

Where as the freedom of press in Pakistani is the most liberal in the Islamic world, state censorship is the norm in Egypt. Taking away the voice of the people can work as a catalyst for uprisings.

Also the literacy rate are higher in Egypt than in Pakistan.

I don't think there is going be a revolution in Pakistan soon.
 
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The Pakistani and Egyptian societies are quite different.

Pakistan has a more tribal culture, in which one lays down his loyalty towards his clan, tribe or ethnic group. This is far less the case for Egypt.

Where as the freedom of press in Pakistani is the most liberal in the Islamic world, state censorship is the norm in Egypt. Taking away the voice of the people can work as a catalyst for uprisings.

Also the literacy rate are higher in Egypt than in Pakistan.

I don't think there is going be a revolution in Pakistan soon.

The level of Frustration in Pakistan is as high as it is in Egypt. Chief justice movement took a lot of anger out of the common man but there is still a lot which just needs a spark and if that happens then i am afraid i have to agree with hamid mir that there will be a lot of husseni mubaraks who will flee.
 
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Any translation available?

Basically he is saying rather warning Pakistani rulers that stop banking on America. he says that just like Egypt where US is dumping Mubarak , Pakistani rulers will also be dumped by US in such a situation.

He also mentioned recent killing of Pakistanis by US operative Davis saying our rulers giving a free walk to the killer under US pressure will be an attempt to create sentiments for Egypt like situation .
 
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Are you willing, Jana, to go through the article and pick out the inaccuracies and misrepresentations within? You aren't, are you?
 
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