Pakistan Air Force to procure Belgian C-130 Transport Aircraft | June 2022 .

[Pakistan Ka Beta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1545301411273084929

https://twitter.com/x/status/1545307080470528001

 

[Michel Niesten]

It seems Pakistan will get following C-130’s:
CH-01 (4455)
CH-04 (4467)
CH-05 (4470)
CH-07 (4476)
CH-09 (4479)
CH-12 (4483)
So that makes 6 in total. Of the other 7 C-130’s Belgium had in the past, 2 were destroyed (CH-02, CH-06).
CH-03 went to a museum (the front section)
CH-08 was dismantled
CH-10 was dismantled
CH-11 fate unknown
CH-13 went to a museum.

So that makes 6 for Pakistan, and one unknown, which might be part of the deal, but maybe not.

Info thanks to Belgian Wings website

 

[Michel Niesten]

Yes, they are old. But always well maintained in Belgium, and there’s a lot of life left in them. Belgium doesn’t need them anymore, so there’s nothing wrong for Pakistan to continue using them.
As long as Pakistan gives them the right service and maintenance, they can be used for years to come.

 

[shayyman]

Getting a new type at this stage means installing the infrastructure and maintaining stores. PAF's experience with the Antanovs has not been a good one. Given half a choice we will go for the C130s anyday . We have 50yrs of experience on the platform and ability to overhaul and repair them in house.
A

Yes we have 50 yrs of experience with the platform, that's why we are fine with buying 50 years old air frames.

 

[Bossman]

Typical hot headed kid throwing tantrums.

If you use your brain more than your tongue, you would ask yourself why is PAF forced to buy this junk while next door neighbor India is buying brand new units of C130J.

The belgian planes are in service since 1972, and are being retired to move to newer versions of A400.

This will be refurbished by US and life will be extended, but that does not change the fact that it is used junk of no use to BAF.

Beggars can't be choosers.

Obviously not very informed and not a deep thinker. H will be available for a few million dollars, while J with cost more than $100 million a pop. The main thing is that PAF has command over the H model from the rivet up. All the PAF C130s either Bs, Es or Hs have been upgraded to a glass cockpit similar to J, plus strengthened wings and upgraded engines. They serve our needs very well and are great bang for the buck. It will be great if we can afford Js but not the optimum use of limited resources right now. Even if we could afford them US will not sell brand new Js to us and even if they did it will create dependency and risk of sanctions. As far as Indian C130Js are concerned, they have already destroyed two of the six they originally bought, so IAF is not a very good example for PAF to follow. BTW many air forces in world including USAF still use the Hs and even older models.

 

[Bossman]

That's what i'm trying to drill in your brain. You know that it's old / old tech, used, and in reach for PAF only because it's dirt cheap, but mr big ego still do not want to accept it. Itna bari takreer kar dee, ghuma phira kay wohi keh ra hay jau main bol ra hoon , manta phir bhi nahi.

And the excuse is, many air forces use old stuff. No wonder americans treat you Pakistanis like this because they know youwill run for its garbage like gump, and ultra nationlaists like u will go to all illogical lengths to defend it as well.

Here's some more brilliant ideas for you to go chest thumping about. keep an eye out.

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You are thicker than I thought. It is not about the unit cost but life cycle cost. Older stuff is more maintenance and labor intensive so in advanced economies because of high labor cost it is cheaper to replace equipment even it is not obsolete. For countries like Pakistan, with its lower labor cost it is feasible to still operate the old types.

You posting totally irrelevant pictures of fighters from the 50s and 60s shows you as cannot come up with a rational response. BTW PAF did operate the trainer version of the P80 I.e. T33 well into the 80s. The second picture you posted is of T38 Talon, which is still in use by USA. T38 was derived from F5 Freedom Fighter, which is also still in service all over the world including some advanced countries like Switzerland. So I have no idea what point you are trying to make other than proving to everyone your limited intellect and knowledge.

 

[Bossman]

A beggar never runs out of excuses.

Just to trump your illogic, next door neighbor India has low labour cost as well, but not the mindset as yours.

The machines are 50 years old. They ARE obsolete. What part of that you can't understand.

The root cause is bad economy, not a love for junk. Apparently you can't even get this simple 2+2, but hellbent on defending every idiotic acquisition high on ultra nationalism.

No they are not obsolete! They have at least 20 years of life left in them. They will be flying long after you are dead. B52s are much older than C130 Hs. USAF still operates them and will operate them for another 30 years. It is not nationalism it is cost effectiveness and bang for the buck. IAF has transport planes in service which are older than C130 Hs. I.e. HS 748. They keep operating them because similar to our expertise over C130s, they have command over HS748s. India never had the experience with C130s as we do so they had no choice but to get new ones. So your logic is as shallow as a gutter. South Africa which is richer than Pakistan still operate Dakotas from the Second World War.

The economic issue is obvious but maintaining credible deterrence despite resource constraint deserve credit and not criticism. I think you are one of the first generation immigrants who who developed some complex’s about your home country or you are an Indian. A lot of those are popping up on this forum to exploit the fissures in our society after the mess of IK removal.

 

[iLION12345_1]

No they are not obsolete! They have at least 20 years of life left in them. They will be flying long after you are dead. B52s are much older than C130 Hs. USAF still operates them and will operate them for another 30 years. It is not nationalism it is cost effectiveness and bang for the buck. IAF has transport planes in service which are older than C130 Hs. I.e. HS 748. They keep operating them because similar to our expertise over C130s, they have command over HS748s. India never had the experience with C130s as we do so they had no choice but to get new ones. So your logic is as shallow as a gutter. South Africa which is richer than Pakistan still operate Dakotas from the Second World War.

The economic issue is obvious but maintaining credible deterrence despite resource constraint deserve credit and not criticism. I think you are one of the first generation immigrants who who developed some complex’s about your home country or you are an Indian. A lot of those are popping up on this forum to exploit the fissures in our society after the mess of IK removal.

Never argue with an idiot, he will bring you down to his level and then beat you with experience.

 

[Super Falcon]

Pathetic school of thought I FC Belgian thinks they are useless why we are buying them

 

[blain2]

Typical hot headed kid throwing tantrums.

If you use your brain more than your tongue, you would ask yourself why is PAF forced to buy this junk while next door neighbor India is buying brand new units of C130J.

The belgian planes are in service since 1972, and are being retired to move to newer versions of A400.

This will be refurbished by US and life will be extended, but that does not change the fact that it is used junk of no use to BAF.

Beggars can't be choosers.

Yes, you take in used what you cannot afford new.

What choice is there?

Pathetic school of thought I FC Belgian thinks they are useless why we are buying them

Because we can get life out of them. We do a pretty serious refurbishment in our own local depot. If there is sufficient life left in the aircraft, PAF will go to the Americans to glass these C-130s. As an aircraft, they are as solid as they come.

We should realize that we don't have any money for anything new or top of the line. When the Americans were in Afghanistan, a lot of the money was coming from the US for the usage of our infra. and this CSF funding was being used for upgrades and we were also receiving some American transfers as part of our MNNA status. This tap has gone dry. As such it is better to get used to this fact. Specially in the coming years with the budget deficit eating us alive, there won't be a lot of money for the military (think Argentina and Greece). The latest budget cuts are a clear indication - as it is, the AFDP gets a little less than $1.5B across the 3 services each year. Can we even consider buying new C-130s?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

A machine never ages , it is only the maintenance which lacks or lack of spare parts.
Considering Pakistan's Engineering can service the C130 , regularly

>New Electrical Wirings, Refreshing
>Servicing Mechanical components of craft
>Perhaps a Engine refurbishment

The C-130 can be a great contributor for Transport needs for Military

Country size of Pakistan , needs at least "45 Transport Units" to handle the needs for Food/Supplies for ground troops locally. Or simply relocating troops one station to other
During any escalations

For Belgium The Airbus platform perhaps offers better perks as it was bought from European source. And they don't want to spend resources on servicing unit not to mention they have financial Depth

The Logistical capacity of Pakistan's Military need some boost

We should also acquire 1-2 C-130 strictly, to Serve as Medical Unit (Mobile)

 

[salarsikander]

Wonder, why we didn't, go for the Chinese option, Tho I do understand that this Cargo Workhorse has been a mainstay for quite a number of years and we have the necessary infrastructure to support this, but I would still think about long-term strategy to move towards more Chinese system for more homogeneity

 

[Bossman]

Keep going around in circles of your foolish clarifications to prove 50 year used airframes are as useful as new ones, just because PAF will either be not offered new ones from US or it simply does not have money to afford them. Both issues linked to a frail economy and a screwed up FP.

These assets are the only mainstay air lifters pakistan has and its prime battle zone machines, not purposed for delivering wheat - which you cannot think beyond. They need to be the best. India does not go for 50 yrs old junk not because of experience, but because of mindset of warzone. Pakistan's economy has been damaged so much that now the mindset that has evolved is exactly what you reflect - which cannot think outside the box or beyond peanuts.

Do you think PAF will acquire by choice these junked out air frames if the gov had the money to afford the J's? Fact is a third world brain will always think like a third world brain, and you are a real life example.

So yes. The fissure is in your brain, which is translated into the society. Blame yourself if you must.

And stop behaving like a typical insecure nationalist who will instead of introspecting start accusing others of his wishful assumptions.

75 years have been a waste because of defensive, insecure, living-on-peanuts mindset born out of ppl like you.

Stop blabbering! You are not making any sense. Take your meds and go to sleep. The length of your post does not make it more convincing just you proves what everyone already knows.

Few understand this reality only. Be careful Insecure nationalists who can't see beyond guns and bullets will throw rain of negative ratings on you lol. Fact is for third world beggars living on throw away junk like this, this is gold.

Do don’t even know what Nationalism is? Are you even educated? Obviously an ill informed person with prejudice and complexes. The worst combination. Must have spent a lifetime doing menial jobs in the west.

 

[Bossman]

For the uninformed

 

[arslank03]

Keep going around in circles of your foolish clarifications to prove 50 year used airframes are as useful as new ones, just because PAF will either be not offered new ones from US or it simply does not have money to afford them. Both issues linked to a frail economy and a screwed up FP.

These assets are the only mainstay air lifters pakistan has and its prime battle zone machines, not purposed for delivering wheat - which you cannot think beyond. They need to be the best. India does not go for 50 yrs old junk not because of experience, but because of mindset of warzone. Pakistan's economy has been damaged so much that now the mindset that has evolved is exactly what you reflect - which cannot think outside the box or beyond peanuts.

Do you think PAF will acquire by choice these junked out air frames if the gov had the money to afford the J's? Fact is a third world brain will always think like a third world brain, and you are a real life example.

So yes. The fissure is in your brain, which is translated into the society. Blame yourself if you must.

And stop behaving like a typical insecure nationalist who will instead of introspecting start accusing others of his wishful assumptions.

75 years have been a waste because of defensive, insecure, living-on-peanuts mindset born out of ppl like you.

50-year-old airframes? We should make this distinction that airframe age means f*** all in terms of airframe life.

A 50-year-old airframe could have over half of its airframe life left in it, thus, making it more useful than a 20-year-old airframe with 2/3 of its life left.

You should probably rub the two brain cells you have together and try to come up with an explanation as to why these airframes are supposedly obsolete, we're all anxiously waiting for your well-informed, intelligent post.

These airframes :
some have less than half of their airframe life used, at MAX, 22k hours on the most used ones. The SLEP program EXTENDS THIS BY AN ADDITIONAL 40,000 Hours, so another service life.
Received new avionics and cockpit in 2000.
In 2005, they were contracted to receive a new Thales Radar warning system, they also received Terma's ALQ-213 EWMS and CMDS.

These will very likely receive the Flight2 Suite from Collins to put them in line with the rest of the fleet, an upgrade the US, France, Portugal, and others have also received on their legacy aircraft, putting their avionics and electronics/mission systems on par with new C130s.
If you are suggesting an airframe becomes obsolete, id love to hear your rationale behind this, maybe for fastjets, yes, where most of the world moves onto something new, however, a cargo aircraft airframe becoming obsolete seems quite stupid, unless, somehow the world has moved onto supersonic, VLO, 9g maneuverable airlifters and we're still stuck with C130s.

The C130H can:
Move people
Move equipment
Move gear
Cover HADR missions
Be used for ISR
Be used as a command node (with the Flight2 upgrade)
hmm... this all sounds exactly like... what the C130-J can do. Oh wait, because an upgraded C-130H is effectively as capable at the same mission, with the only exception being a shorter airframe and reduced flight performance (due to older engines, though, they could be re-engined if there was a reason to, however, there IS NONE.)


Let me just tear down this myth about 'new' equipment:
Lets take a look at some 'new' EADS products,
NH-90. The Qataris replaced their Sea Kings with NH-90's and gave the Sea Kings to us. Surely, we should have bought the NH-90's too, since now we have just received old, unflyable junk? Oh wait...

The Australians bought 47 NH-90s in 2014, by 2020, they were retiring them, in exchange for... a decades-old design, the Blackhawk.
Hmm, maybe it was a one-off, but then, the Norwegians have cited a sub 20% availability for theirs, retiring them for a... decades-old design, the Blackhawk...
Even the Germans we're pissed off about theirs because people at airshows in high heels walked in and ended up punching holes in the floor of the helicopter...

Right, whatever, just one example, oh wait...
Australia replaced their Tigers just 10 years after FOC? Why? What did they end up picking? Oh wait... Once again... a decades-old airframe.

Notice the recurring theme? Old airframes... new avionics and mission systems...? Just like these C-130's...

I know what you will say, these airframes have hours on them, they are old, that is why they're Obsolete,

So are the RAF's E-7 Wedgetails obsolete? They are using old, commercial airframes for them?

Will the RCAF's MRTT's be obsolete? They arent even built yet but they are using old airframes.

I think you need to just shut up honestly, you are making a fool out of yourself and nothing less. Just sit down and observe, let those who are knowledgable talk, while gaining knowledge for yourself. Good boy.